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On September 21 2011 10:56 Yamulo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:51 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:39 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:36 Piledriver wrote:On September 21 2011 10:33 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:28 tuho12345 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:25 Alpino wrote:On September 21 2011 10:23 oogieogie wrote:On September 21 2011 10:21 Malstriks wrote:
that was so good, i don't even know how losira knew that there were dt's on the way, his spore/spine crawlers were perfectly timed too How can the P get back in this game? DTs The zerg just knew that so he put down a evo chamber, no way he would get lair, and then just build some spores/spines to prepare. Could the P have used a huge gateway army and just killed the gold or something because idk if that would even work since Z could build so many units. I don't think a Zerg of Losira's level would lose to a huge gateway army with that opening unless P's control was like beyond stellar. At least this map is horrid for zerg vs T so it evens out ^^. Protoss only has 2 options in early game is stargate or dt. So eitherway it's just so easy to blindly put down 1-2 sporecrawlers. Not hurt at all right? That's the problem with protoss early harassment right now. You actually do have options besides forge fe into dt's or star. You can 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 2 gate stargate, choya's 4 gate+stargate. All those builds allow you to pressure the Zergs and stop these extremely greedy builds Zergs do now because they know Protoss players only do two builds both of which just require spores to defend and allow you to build a shit load of drones. Much like Zergs did with Roach/Hydra/Corruptor Protoss have convinced themselves that their only options are to do an extremely small number of things when in reality there are other things they can do and if they'd stop being so predictable they'd have much success, just like Zergs did. All those builds you listed are basically straight up all-ins. We really need a safer way to pressure while expanding. That's the whole bone of contention. I agree that many are all innish, but perhaps if Zergs were at all worried about Protoss early aggression rather than knowing they will all just forge fe every single game they'd be forced to play a lot safer because that threat is there, rather than taking a third on the 5 minute mark. Or maybe if gateway and timing attacks and stargate play were actually threatening but they're not due to various protoss nerfs and spore crawler build time decrease. Losira, Coca, and Nestea straight up never lose a BO series in tournaments in ZvP because vs a Zerg with an exceptional understanding of the matchup, Protoss has no ideal options. I think it's a mix of Protoss being perhaps underpowered and all top Protoss players except MC (who himself is pretty guilty) being a bunch of cheesy 2 base all inners. So basically you just admitted to have never watching half of the protoss players play. I mean seriously, watch Huk Hero, Puzzle (to some extent.. from what I have seen he gateway all ins ALOT), Sage ect ect. You had no idea what you are talking about and generalizing a whole race in general is a terrible idea. DTs were a choice he made, you can not judge him from the maybe 2 games you have seen of him.... Watch his code A games from last night............ Or his stream, or his tournaments and you would know your statement is wrong.
I've watch 90% of GSL games since it started as well as Korean Weeekly, basically anything with Koreans in it I watch.
MC is pretty much the only major innovator of Protoss strategies in the last 9 months.
Huk's always been a pretty cheesy player and his game is all about micro, his strategies are usually pretty standard.
Hongun is creative but not in a good way...although I always get a laugh out of whatever wacky strat he uses.
Sage is just hype.
Puzzle I feel got a very fortunate draw through Code A, had a few good results and found himself being the next big thing which his play never really merited.
Hero just made it into Code A. Basically he's known for void ray all ins in 80% of his PvT and uses Warp Prisms a lot. He does a lot of creative harass and does some nice stuff but he's got a long way to go before touching Losira level and that's nothing to do with racial imbalance.
You can't honestly believe there is anything like the same talent pool playing Protoss as Zerg, or even worse Terran?
There's a reason only MC has ever won a GSL or really achieved anything in Korea, even when Protoss wasn't 'underpowered'.
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On September 21 2011 11:01 Flonomenalz wrote:
But I guess Tosses now will be smart and put a pylon there preemptively? Idk.
hmmm
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On September 21 2011 11:01 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:36 Piledriver wrote:On September 21 2011 10:33 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:28 tuho12345 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:25 Alpino wrote:On September 21 2011 10:23 oogieogie wrote:On September 21 2011 10:21 Malstriks wrote:
that was so good, i don't even know how losira knew that there were dt's on the way, his spore/spine crawlers were perfectly timed too How can the P get back in this game? DTs The zerg just knew that so he put down a evo chamber, no way he would get lair, and then just build some spores/spines to prepare. Could the P have used a huge gateway army and just killed the gold or something because idk if that would even work since Z could build so many units. I don't think a Zerg of Losira's level would lose to a huge gateway army with that opening unless P's control was like beyond stellar. At least this map is horrid for zerg vs T so it evens out ^^. Protoss only has 2 options in early game is stargate or dt. So eitherway it's just so easy to blindly put down 1-2 sporecrawlers. Not hurt at all right? That's the problem with protoss early harassment right now. You actually do have options besides forge fe into dt's or star. You can 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 2 gate stargate, choya's 4 gate+stargate. All those builds allow you to pressure the Zergs and stop these extremely greedy builds Zergs do now because they know Protoss players only do two builds both of which just require spores to defend and allow you to build a shit load of drones. Much like Zergs did with Roach/Hydra/Corruptor Protoss have convinced themselves that their only options are to do an extremely small number of things when in reality there are other things they can do and if they'd stop being so predictable they'd have much success, just like Zergs did. All those builds you listed are basically straight up all-ins (except maybe 2 gate stargate, which MC does every single game but doesnt really give good results). We really need a safer way to pressure while expanding. That's the whole bone of contention. What? You want an even safer way to pressure while expanding when you already have FF and warp ins? Lol... The whole point of FFE is sacrificing the ability to pressure early in order to get a huge econ lead against standard FE Zerg. Hence, Zerg started 3 hatch before Lair in response. However, almost all Protosses are still in their "2 base timing attack" mindset that they got from playing against standard Zerg play, but that DOESN'T work against 3 hatch play. What you should do is get a SG for minor harass and map control (1 VR and 3-4 phoenixes is enough), then just turtle to a fast third. Make enough of an army to keep you safe, and constantly scout the Z composition (is he going Infestor, Muta, pure Roach, etc). Then Zerg is now forced to choose between attacking you (which you should hold because of defenders adv) or getting a 4th. Once you secure your third (again, keep up on upgrades!) just get your deathball of Stalker/Zealot/Sentry/Collosus/Few HTs. Attack once maxed while putting down your 4th and 5th base. What you saw in that game was just map failure. The gold is too easy for Zerg. But I guess Tosses now will be smart and put a pylon there preemptively? Idk.
You get one Stargate and you're scared away by the two queens the Zerg already has, and the spore crawler he invests 2 Workers and 150 Minerals in at that timing against DTs anyway, while the Zerg is mining off 3 bases.
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On September 21 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:56 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:39 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:36 Piledriver wrote:On September 21 2011 10:33 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:28 tuho12345 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:25 Alpino wrote:On September 21 2011 10:23 oogieogie wrote:
[quote]
How can the P get back in this game? DTs
The zerg just knew that so he put down a evo chamber, no way he would get lair, and then just build some spores/spines to prepare. Could the P have used a huge gateway army and just killed the gold or something because idk if that would even work since Z could build so many units. I don't think a Zerg of Losira's level would lose to a huge gateway army with that opening unless P's control was like beyond stellar. At least this map is horrid for zerg vs T so it evens out ^^. Protoss only has 2 options in early game is stargate or dt. So eitherway it's just so easy to blindly put down 1-2 sporecrawlers. Not hurt at all right? That's the problem with protoss early harassment right now. You actually do have options besides forge fe into dt's or star. You can 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 2 gate stargate, choya's 4 gate+stargate. All those builds allow you to pressure the Zergs and stop these extremely greedy builds Zergs do now because they know Protoss players only do two builds both of which just require spores to defend and allow you to build a shit load of drones. Much like Zergs did with Roach/Hydra/Corruptor Protoss have convinced themselves that their only options are to do an extremely small number of things when in reality there are other things they can do and if they'd stop being so predictable they'd have much success, just like Zergs did. All those builds you listed are basically straight up all-ins. We really need a safer way to pressure while expanding. That's the whole bone of contention. I agree that many are all innish, but perhaps if Zergs were at all worried about Protoss early aggression rather than knowing they will all just forge fe every single game they'd be forced to play a lot safer because that threat is there, rather than taking a third on the 5 minute mark. Or maybe if gateway and timing attacks and stargate play were actually threatening but they're not due to various protoss nerfs and spore crawler build time decrease. Losira, Coca, and Nestea straight up never lose a BO series in tournaments in ZvP because vs a Zerg with an exceptional understanding of the matchup, Protoss has no ideal options. I think it's a mix of Protoss being perhaps underpowered and all top Protoss players except MC (who himself is pretty guilty) being a bunch of cheesy 2 base all inners. So basically you just admitted to have never watching half of the protoss players play. I mean seriously, watch Huk Hero, Puzzle (to some extent.. from what I have seen he gateway all ins ALOT), Sage ect ect. You had no idea what you are talking about and generalizing a whole race in general is a terrible idea. DTs were a choice he made, you can not judge him from the maybe 2 games you have seen of him.... Watch his code A games from last night............ Or his stream, or his tournaments and you would know your statement is wrong. I've watch 90% of GSL games since it started as well as Korean Weeekly, basically anything with Koreans in it I watch. MC is pretty much the only major innovator of Protoss strategies in the last 9 months. Huk's always been a pretty cheesy player and his game is all about micro, his strategies are usually pretty standard. Hongun is creative but not in a good way...although I always get a laugh out of whatever wacky strat he uses. Sage is just hype. Puzzle I feel got a very fortunate draw through Code A, had a few good results and found himself being the next big thing which his play never really merited. Hero just made it into Code A. Basically he's known for void ray all ins in 80% of his PvT and uses Warp Prisms a lot. He does a lot of creative harass and does some nice stuff but he's got a long way to go before touching Losira level and that's nothing to do with racial imbalance. You can't honestly believe there is anything like the same talent pool playing Protoss as Zerg, or even worse Terran? There's a reason only MC has ever won a GSL or really achieved anything in Korea, even when Protoss wasn't 'underpowered'.
lol !!^^. You are talking about pvz and you reference pvt. And then you talk about how all protoss players are bad. I am laughing really badly, I don't know how you can make an argument like this.
Edit: How is Huk cheesy?
Also when did I say anything about balance......... I literally never mentioned it. But you decided that you are going to completely generalize a race that statistically not doing so well. Then you tell people how to play a race that you don't even play and try to explain how protoss players can learn from a zerg......................
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On September 21 2011 11:01 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:36 Piledriver wrote:On September 21 2011 10:33 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:28 tuho12345 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:25 Alpino wrote:On September 21 2011 10:23 oogieogie wrote:On September 21 2011 10:21 Malstriks wrote:
that was so good, i don't even know how losira knew that there were dt's on the way, his spore/spine crawlers were perfectly timed too How can the P get back in this game? DTs The zerg just knew that so he put down a evo chamber, no way he would get lair, and then just build some spores/spines to prepare. Could the P have used a huge gateway army and just killed the gold or something because idk if that would even work since Z could build so many units. I don't think a Zerg of Losira's level would lose to a huge gateway army with that opening unless P's control was like beyond stellar. At least this map is horrid for zerg vs T so it evens out ^^. Protoss only has 2 options in early game is stargate or dt. So eitherway it's just so easy to blindly put down 1-2 sporecrawlers. Not hurt at all right? That's the problem with protoss early harassment right now. You actually do have options besides forge fe into dt's or star. You can 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 2 gate stargate, choya's 4 gate+stargate. All those builds allow you to pressure the Zergs and stop these extremely greedy builds Zergs do now because they know Protoss players only do two builds both of which just require spores to defend and allow you to build a shit load of drones. Much like Zergs did with Roach/Hydra/Corruptor Protoss have convinced themselves that their only options are to do an extremely small number of things when in reality there are other things they can do and if they'd stop being so predictable they'd have much success, just like Zergs did. All those builds you listed are basically straight up all-ins (except maybe 2 gate stargate, which MC does every single game but doesnt really give good results). We really need a safer way to pressure while expanding. That's the whole bone of contention. What? You want an even safer way to pressure while expanding when you already have FF and warp ins? Lol... The whole point of FFE is sacrificing the ability to pressure early in order to get a huge econ lead against standard FE Zerg. Hence, Zerg started 3 hatch before Lair in response. However, almost all Protosses are still in their "2 base timing attack" mindset that they got from playing against standard Zerg play, but that DOESN'T work against 3 hatch play. What you should do is get a SG for minor harass and map control (1 VR and 3-4 phoenixes is enough), then just turtle to a fast third. Make enough of an army to keep you safe, and constantly scout the Z composition (is he going Infestor, Muta, pure Roach, etc). Then Zerg is now forced to choose between attacking you (which you should hold because of defenders adv) or getting a 4th. Once you secure your third (again, keep up on upgrades!) just get your deathball of Stalker/Zealot/Sentry/Collosus/Few HTs. Attack once maxed while putting down your 4th and 5th base. What you saw in that game was just map failure. The gold is too easy for Zerg. But I guess Tosses now will be smart and put a pylon there preemptively? Idk.
Thats the whole point everyone is trying to make, that goldbase is broken as hell. When Zerg took Gold he won.
And the problem is that all ins are basically protoss only strength, sad but true
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On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching.
I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build.
That's not how RTS games work.
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On September 21 2011 11:04 Yamulo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:02 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:56 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:39 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:36 Piledriver wrote:On September 21 2011 10:33 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:28 tuho12345 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:25 Alpino wrote:
[quote]
I don't think a Zerg of Losira's level would lose to a huge gateway army with that opening unless P's control was like beyond stellar.
At least this map is horrid for zerg vs T so it evens out ^^. Protoss only has 2 options in early game is stargate or dt. So eitherway it's just so easy to blindly put down 1-2 sporecrawlers. Not hurt at all right? That's the problem with protoss early harassment right now. You actually do have options besides forge fe into dt's or star. You can 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 2 gate stargate, choya's 4 gate+stargate. All those builds allow you to pressure the Zergs and stop these extremely greedy builds Zergs do now because they know Protoss players only do two builds both of which just require spores to defend and allow you to build a shit load of drones. Much like Zergs did with Roach/Hydra/Corruptor Protoss have convinced themselves that their only options are to do an extremely small number of things when in reality there are other things they can do and if they'd stop being so predictable they'd have much success, just like Zergs did. All those builds you listed are basically straight up all-ins. We really need a safer way to pressure while expanding. That's the whole bone of contention. I agree that many are all innish, but perhaps if Zergs were at all worried about Protoss early aggression rather than knowing they will all just forge fe every single game they'd be forced to play a lot safer because that threat is there, rather than taking a third on the 5 minute mark. Or maybe if gateway and timing attacks and stargate play were actually threatening but they're not due to various protoss nerfs and spore crawler build time decrease. Losira, Coca, and Nestea straight up never lose a BO series in tournaments in ZvP because vs a Zerg with an exceptional understanding of the matchup, Protoss has no ideal options. I think it's a mix of Protoss being perhaps underpowered and all top Protoss players except MC (who himself is pretty guilty) being a bunch of cheesy 2 base all inners. So basically you just admitted to have never watching half of the protoss players play. I mean seriously, watch Huk Hero, Puzzle (to some extent.. from what I have seen he gateway all ins ALOT), Sage ect ect. You had no idea what you are talking about and generalizing a whole race in general is a terrible idea. DTs were a choice he made, you can not judge him from the maybe 2 games you have seen of him.... Watch his code A games from last night............ Or his stream, or his tournaments and you would know your statement is wrong. I've watch 90% of GSL games since it started as well as Korean Weeekly, basically anything with Koreans in it I watch. MC is pretty much the only major innovator of Protoss strategies in the last 9 months. Huk's always been a pretty cheesy player and his game is all about micro, his strategies are usually pretty standard. Hongun is creative but not in a good way...although I always get a laugh out of whatever wacky strat he uses. Sage is just hype. Puzzle I feel got a very fortunate draw through Code A, had a few good results and found himself being the next big thing which his play never really merited. Hero just made it into Code A. Basically he's known for void ray all ins in 80% of his PvT and uses Warp Prisms a lot. He does a lot of creative harass and does some nice stuff but he's got a long way to go before touching Losira level and that's nothing to do with racial imbalance. You can't honestly believe there is anything like the same talent pool playing Protoss as Zerg, or even worse Terran? There's a reason only MC has ever won a GSL or really achieved anything in Korea, even when Protoss wasn't 'underpowered'. lol !!^^. You are talking about pvz and you reference pvt. And then you talk about how all protoss players are bad. I am laughing really badly, I don't know how you can make an argument like this.
You can't honestly believe there is anything like the same talent pool playing Protoss as Zerg, or even worse Terran?
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On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work.
Nah that's how Terran works.
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On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work.
Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg.
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On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg.
Should try playing Terran or Zerg sometime if you think that way.
It might open your eyes a little.
right now you are just looking like an ignorant fool or a whining tool. One of the two.
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On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg.
There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time.
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On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work.
You said that if he just lets losira get away with his 3rd and takes an early third himself he can defend it a few minutes later. He said its not true. You said he could just get more gates and get templar tech. He said that templar tech wouldnt be ready by then, then you just made some random statement which is no reply.
Yes it Zerg goes super greedy I want to be able to play greedy myself and still be able to defend OR punish Zerg for being greedy without all-in ing. The problem is the gold base, if he takes that one you basically have to all in because its the only way to pressure it. Because in contrast to a normal 3rd he can defend and still get way ahead. So you either allin or just play the macro game and zerg just runs away.
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On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time.
Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something.
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On September 21 2011 11:12 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. Should try playing Terran or Zerg sometime if you think that way. It might open your eyes a little. right now you are just looking like an ignorant fool or a whining tool. One of the two.
I have played Terran and Zerg.
Let me just you know, 1 Rax FE, then drop two more Barracks, and look, I'm at the same amount of production as a 1 Base all-in before WG Tech is even done.
Let me just you know, 14 Hatch 14 Pool and then drop a Roach Warren and I'm totally safe from anything for a while, then I can just drop spores when the timing for DTs/Stargate comes.
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On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something.
Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options.
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On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:
[quote]
nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options.
So you pick a build that HARD COUNTERS that build AFTER scouting, and you compare it to openers? Ok.
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On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:
[quote]
nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options.
Thorzain fucked up and didn't have a bunker. Plus what the guy below me said.
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On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:
[quote]
nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options.
The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing...
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EPT
