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On September 21 2011 11:12 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:On September 21 2011 10:45 Blasphemi wrote:
The build I think Sase did vs Fruit Dealer where he cronoboosted out a shit load of Zealots after Forge Expanding would have been good against what Losira did. nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. Should try playing Terran or Zerg sometime if you think that way. It might open your eyes a little. right now you are just looking like an ignorant fool or a whining tool. One of the two.
Nah, he looks like a fool or a wise man depending on what each person believes; there are people out there that read these things and they don't necessarily agree with you.
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On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:46 GreyKnight wrote:
[quote]
nah, you wouldn't get enough zealots to punish anything. i dont even think sase's build really worked. Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones. Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off. Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options.
Thorzain was also playing greedy and did not build literally A bunker....
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On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 10:50 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
Even if you couldn't deny any basis Losira would have to make an extremely large number of slow lings (seen as he's playing gasless) to respond. That's an awful lot of larva that isn't drones.
Instead he did by far the most obvious and predictable response and suprisingly the second best Zerg player in the world saw it coming a mile off.
Or how about Hero himself takes an extremely fast third? Losira had no capicity to deny that in the first 7 minutes of the game. He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing...
Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build.
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On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:51 Jinivus wrote:
[quote]
He will 3 minutes later and you sure as hell won't have the capacity to defend it... Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates. As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build.
Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game.
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THat would be fine if zerg would have to do that blind.
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On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:53 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
Three minutes allows you to slap down a load of gates.
As well with the heavy ling style I'm suprised how many people aren't opening Twilight/Templar tech rather than Stargate/Robo tech. Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective? You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game.
Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better...
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On September 21 2011 11:30 Yamulo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:
[quote]
Do you know how long Twilight/Templar tech takes to become effective?
You either have to research Charge, or Build a Templar Archive and THEN Research Storm, meanwhile you can't have enough sentries to hold your choke because all that gas is currently on the clock researching. I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build. That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game. Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better...
Then feel free to keep losing every game. Shame really as I enjoy watching Protoss in Code S.
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On September 21 2011 11:32 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:30 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build.
That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game. Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better... Then feel free to keep losing every game. Shame really as I enjoy watching Protoss in Code S.
So we Forge FE, 1 Base....or....???
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Name a better opening then, one that isnt "boohoo timing attack so unfair" ...
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On September 21 2011 11:32 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:30 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build.
That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game. Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better... Then feel free to keep losing every game. Shame really as I enjoy watching Protoss in Code S.
Haha I swear to god if Hero did a 1 base all in you would be in this thread telling him to play standard and that he's a cheesy protoss noob who's less talented than all the zergs and terrans.
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Wasnt the original topic that that GOLD BASE is broken? Im not sure if the openings in general are broken but Im 100% that this gold base which basically is as good as a normal 3rd is broken...
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On September 21 2011 11:32 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:30 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:06 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
I'm bored of arguing with people who know nothing about the game. So basically you want to to be able to take a greedy econ centric fast expand, have great early harass and enough bulky units to defend heavy pressure all in one build.
That's not how RTS games work. Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game. Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better... Then feel free to keep losing every game. Shame really as I enjoy watching Protoss in Code S.
Please explain to me and all the protoss players that have much more knowledge than you on the race we actually play, what build would you suggest.... Also, are you implying that I am code S lol. Don't worry I trust an zerg to tell me about the finite points of a match up he does not play.... Thanks!
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On September 21 2011 11:05 -y0shi- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:01 Flonomenalz wrote:On September 21 2011 10:36 Piledriver wrote:On September 21 2011 10:33 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 10:28 tuho12345 wrote:On September 21 2011 10:25 Alpino wrote:On September 21 2011 10:23 oogieogie wrote:On September 21 2011 10:21 Malstriks wrote:
that was so good, i don't even know how losira knew that there were dt's on the way, his spore/spine crawlers were perfectly timed too How can the P get back in this game? DTs The zerg just knew that so he put down a evo chamber, no way he would get lair, and then just build some spores/spines to prepare. Could the P have used a huge gateway army and just killed the gold or something because idk if that would even work since Z could build so many units. I don't think a Zerg of Losira's level would lose to a huge gateway army with that opening unless P's control was like beyond stellar. At least this map is horrid for zerg vs T so it evens out ^^. Protoss only has 2 options in early game is stargate or dt. So eitherway it's just so easy to blindly put down 1-2 sporecrawlers. Not hurt at all right? That's the problem with protoss early harassment right now. You actually do have options besides forge fe into dt's or star. You can 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 2 gate stargate, choya's 4 gate+stargate. All those builds allow you to pressure the Zergs and stop these extremely greedy builds Zergs do now because they know Protoss players only do two builds both of which just require spores to defend and allow you to build a shit load of drones. Much like Zergs did with Roach/Hydra/Corruptor Protoss have convinced themselves that their only options are to do an extremely small number of things when in reality there are other things they can do and if they'd stop being so predictable they'd have much success, just like Zergs did. All those builds you listed are basically straight up all-ins (except maybe 2 gate stargate, which MC does every single game but doesnt really give good results). We really need a safer way to pressure while expanding. That's the whole bone of contention. What? You want an even safer way to pressure while expanding when you already have FF and warp ins? Lol... The whole point of FFE is sacrificing the ability to pressure early in order to get a huge econ lead against standard FE Zerg. Hence, Zerg started 3 hatch before Lair in response. However, almost all Protosses are still in their "2 base timing attack" mindset that they got from playing against standard Zerg play, but that DOESN'T work against 3 hatch play. What you should do is get a SG for minor harass and map control (1 VR and 3-4 phoenixes is enough), then just turtle to a fast third. Make enough of an army to keep you safe, and constantly scout the Z composition (is he going Infestor, Muta, pure Roach, etc). Then Zerg is now forced to choose between attacking you (which you should hold because of defenders adv) or getting a 4th. Once you secure your third (again, keep up on upgrades!) just get your deathball of Stalker/Zealot/Sentry/Collosus/Few HTs. Attack once maxed while putting down your 4th and 5th base. What you saw in that game was just map failure. The gold is too easy for Zerg. But I guess Tosses now will be smart and put a pylon there preemptively? Idk. Thats the whole point everyone is trying to make, that goldbase is broken as hell. When Zerg took Gold he won. And the problem is that all ins are basically protoss only strength, sad but true
I know the Gold base is kinda broken
Hence my last sentence. Map failure. A preemptive pylon there would reveal what the Zerg was going for though, I guess more Tosses will start to do that.
EDIT: What the hell are you guys even arguing about right now?
The whole point over what you saw that game is that the gold base is too easy. This leads to two conclusions:
- Add rocks to Gold base. This makes it easier for P and T to take Gold, harder for Z (i.e. Shattered Temple). Maps like this certainly become P and T favored against Z.
- Leave as is. Gold is too easy for Zerg. Makes ZvP stupid.
Point being, gold bases do not belong in competitive play. More stupidity from Blizzard.
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Man those games were..... not sure what to say.
Guess a tournament can't force good games but all 4 series were just bad.
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On September 21 2011 11:34 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:32 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:30 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:07 VirgilSC2 wrote:
[quote]
Yep, I want to be just like Terran and Zerg. There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time. Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game. Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better... Then feel free to keep losing every game. Shame really as I enjoy watching Protoss in Code S. Haha I swear to god if Hero did a 1 base all in you would be in this thread telling him to play standard and that he's a cheesy protoss noob who's less talented than all the zergs and terrans.
Nothing wrong with a bit of cheese. I actually really like TSL_Rain for example. But you won't become MVP level doing that every game.
On that topic I just don't see a Protoss player who consistantly makes good decisions as much as MVP, Bomber, MMA, Nestea or Losira.
Part of the Protoss problem is definitely the lack of talented Sc2 players picking Protoss, even if they are underpowered right now (especially PvT, much less so PvZ).
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On September 21 2011 11:40 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:34 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:32 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:30 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time.
Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game. Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better... Then feel free to keep losing every game. Shame really as I enjoy watching Protoss in Code S. Haha I swear to god if Hero did a 1 base all in you would be in this thread telling him to play standard and that he's a cheesy protoss noob who's less talented than all the zergs and terrans. Nothing wrong with a bit of cheese. I actually really like TSL_Rain for example. But you won't become MVP level doing that every game. On that topic I just don't see a Protoss player who consistantly makes good decisions as much as MVP, Bomber, MMA, Nestea or Losira. Part of the Protoss problem is definitely the lack of talented Sc2 players picking Protoss, even if they are underpowered right now (especially PvT, much less so PvZ).
You are still the only person saying underpowered............ I would not use such words..... And yes protoss has fewer players, but you do not give nearly enough credit to some of their rising stars. You cannot base your opinion of someone like hero by watching these games because they were odd to say the least. I mean game 2 was a BO win and game one was a silly mistake. Heros code A matches last night show cased a very high lvl of decision making. As to his PvT, there is nothing wrong with doing a void ray all in if you think it is going to work. I mean you praise losira and he invented and used the shit out of the roach ling all in. Also many of the terrans you credit do the 1/1/1, so why can protoss not do similar builds without being considered all in... All I am saying is that hero sage and JYP bring their new styles to the table and really are the hope of protoss. Also, heros pheonix play vs terran is maybe the most beautiful thing I have seen.
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On September 21 2011 11:40 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:34 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:32 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:30 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:12 Blasphemi wrote:
[quote]
There is no Zerg build with those options all at once. Even Terran can't fast expand and still get offensive early game and harass at the same time.
Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game. Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better... Then feel free to keep losing every game. Shame really as I enjoy watching Protoss in Code S. Haha I swear to god if Hero did a 1 base all in you would be in this thread telling him to play standard and that he's a cheesy protoss noob who's less talented than all the zergs and terrans. Nothing wrong with a bit of cheese. I actually really like TSL_Rain for example. But you won't become MVP level doing that every game. On that topic I just don't see a Protoss player who consistantly makes good decisions as much as MVP, Bomber, MMA, Nestea or Losira. Part of the Protoss problem is definitely the lack of talented Sc2 players picking Protoss, even if they are underpowered right now (especially PvT, much less so PvZ).
Herp, if the race is underpowered and has design issues then there aren't always good decisions to make to respond to a situation.
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Anyone have the results for the previous korean matchups?
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On September 21 2011 11:49 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:40 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:34 Jinivus wrote:On September 21 2011 11:32 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:30 Yamulo wrote:On September 21 2011 11:29 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 11:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 21 2011 11:14 Jinivus wrote:
[quote]
Lol ever heard of hellions bro? Unless you mean FE by like 16 CC or something. Watch DRG vs Thorzain. Thorzain goes Helion FE and DRG builds a few Roaches and does massive damage because if Terran does that he has only harass units and no army. Hence his build does not cover all options. The original talk was on opening builds that you have to decide on even before you scout though. If blind counters is all you can do then the game is pretty depressing... Well if you insist on doing the same opening every single game, don't be surprised when Zergs pick the best response to that build. Forge FE is the BEST response to a 14 Hatch, which Zergs do EVERY single game. Also the best response to speedling expand and pool expo.. But I mean a zerg player is going to tell us that a terrible one base build is better... Then feel free to keep losing every game. Shame really as I enjoy watching Protoss in Code S. Haha I swear to god if Hero did a 1 base all in you would be in this thread telling him to play standard and that he's a cheesy protoss noob who's less talented than all the zergs and terrans. Nothing wrong with a bit of cheese. I actually really like TSL_Rain for example. But you won't become MVP level doing that every game. On that topic I just don't see a Protoss player who consistantly makes good decisions as much as MVP, Bomber, MMA, Nestea or Losira. Part of the Protoss problem is definitely the lack of talented Sc2 players picking Protoss, even if they are underpowered right now (especially PvT, much less so PvZ). Herp, if the race is underpowered and has design issues then there aren't always good decisions to make to respond to a situation.
Lol...this. Seriously wanna explain to me the massive coincidence of no talented people picking Protoss? That is such a stupid argument. Of course the players don't look good while they're playing a shit race...
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On September 21 2011 10:28 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 10:25 Alpino wrote:On September 21 2011 10:23 oogieogie wrote:On September 21 2011 10:21 Malstriks wrote:
that was so good, i don't even know how losira knew that there were dt's on the way, his spore/spine crawlers were perfectly timed too How can the P get back in this game? DTs The zerg just knew that so he put down a evo chamber, no way he would get lair, and then just build some spores/spines to prepare. Could the P have used a huge gateway army and just killed the gold or something because idk if that would even work since Z could build so many units. I don't think a Zerg of Losira's level would lose to a huge gateway army with that opening unless P's control was like beyond stellar. At least this map is horrid for zerg vs T so it evens out ^^. Protoss only has 2 options in early game is stargate or dt. So eitherway it's just so easy to blindly put down 1-2 sporecrawlers. Not hurt at all right? That's the problem with protoss early harassment right now.
And what options does Zerg have for harass when Protoss puts down a forge and 1-2 cannons in the early game, besides all-ining?
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EPT
