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Stop with the stupid TT1 discussion, this topic is no place for it and you can all express your likes and dislikes in a more respectful and constructive manner. ~Nyovne |
France13022 Posts
On August 31 2011 21:16 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:13 IVN wrote:On August 31 2011 20:54 Kinch wrote:On August 31 2011 20:52 jackdaleaper wrote:
As a zerg I'm glad July won this, but based on his play I'm scared for him against MVP. Well ... MVP is freaking good. He manhandled Nestea, so what Zerg would give him a fight? Coca and DRG. They both have better ZvT than Nestea. Its Nestea's weakest MU. Well DRG did take a game off MVP at Anaheim so we know he can put up a fight in a Bo3.
I know it's not you that posted that but I can't find IVN post to quote him directly.
CoCa having a better ZvT than NesTea?
Seriously some people need to think before they write, CoCa has done awful in ZvT in GSL and even if he did good he would not still be as strong as NesTea... Even DRG who has like the best ZvT record is maybe not as good as NesTea in ZvT because we haven't see him play enough vT series yet in GSL (MLG don't really count), for example he seems invincible in every match-up in GSTL even ZvP but he still lost in code A and MLG (and even code A qualifiers) some ZvP...
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July is the best at army movement, period. Nobody is as good as him at catching people out of position.
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On August 31 2011 21:21 Rococo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:16 Femari wrote:On August 31 2011 21:13 IVN wrote:On August 31 2011 20:54 Kinch wrote:On August 31 2011 20:52 jackdaleaper wrote:
As a zerg I'm glad July won this, but based on his play I'm scared for him against MVP. Well ... MVP is freaking good. He manhandled Nestea, so what Zerg would give him a fight? Coca and DRG. They both have better ZvT than Nestea. Its Nestea's weakest MU. Well DRG did take a game off MVP at Anaheim so we know he can put up a fight in a Bo3. The game he won was was a silly Thor rush strategy by MVP. The other two were standard macro games and fairly one sided. DRG didn't really look any better than Nestea in them.
He didn't do a silly thor rush, he played a mech style, which is very common. That was a macro game, and he made a push when he got a big army.
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On August 31 2011 21:13 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 20:54 Kinch wrote:On August 31 2011 20:52 jackdaleaper wrote:
As a zerg I'm glad July won this, but based on his play I'm scared for him against MVP. Well ... MVP is freaking good. He manhandled Nestea, so what Zerg would give him a fight? Coca and DRG. They both have better ZvT than Nestea. Its Nestea's weakest MU.
Coca looked helpless vs Bomber and Nestea-Bomber wasn't exactly close. Nestea put up a better fight vs MVP than DRG did. At least nestea managed to max out first and have equal bases. MVP DRG was just over on a macro perspective alone.
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On August 31 2011 21:22 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:17 TT1 wrote:On August 31 2011 21:09 tomatriedes wrote:
Some people don't realize that sometimes, as a zerg, knowing when to not make units for a while is a very useful ability to have. Otherwise when your greater spire/ultralisk cavern finishes you end up without the resources and supply to make anything. Sure you can sacrifice a bunch of lings but you're giving your opponent more time to prepare in that case. yea zerg is the only race where u can stop production without having it hurt u, ur banking mins but ur pooling larva at the same time so it doesnt really matter when u use the larva(unless u go over the larva limit per hatchery).. its actually alot smarter then just wasting ur eco away uselessly, i think one of julys strongest strenghts is his unit compos and how much thought he puts behind wat units he makes Not quite, it's still sub-optimal to not spend your larvae because your hatcheries automatically generate up to 3 then stop automatically generating, so if you're not getting yourself under that cap you're missing out on free larva.
yea ur right about that but does it matter if ur able to spend all ur eco in 1 shot? 3 larva per hatch is... ^_^ not that big of a deal in relation to having to delay ur prod for a while so u can have the most optimal unit compo
im sure 3 larva isnt that big of a deal if july manages to win shit while having 200 energy on all of his queens anyways
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On August 31 2011 21:22 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:17 TT1 wrote:On August 31 2011 21:09 tomatriedes wrote:
Some people don't realize that sometimes, as a zerg, knowing when to not make units for a while is a very useful ability to have. Otherwise when your greater spire/ultralisk cavern finishes you end up without the resources and supply to make anything. Sure you can sacrifice a bunch of lings but you're giving your opponent more time to prepare in that case. yea zerg is the only race where u can stop production without having it hurt u, ur banking mins but ur pooling larva at the same time so it doesnt really matter when u use the larva(unless u go over the larva limit per hatchery).. its actually alot smarter then just wasting ur eco away uselessly, i think one of julys strongest strenghts is his unit compos and how much thought he puts behind wat units he makes Not quite, it's still sub-optimal to not spend your larvae because your hatcheries automatically generate up to 3 then stop automatically generating, so if you're not getting yourself under that cap you're missing out on free larva.
It matters less as game time elapses. So much of zerg relies on specific counters, since there really isn't much to micro besides positioning/flanking.
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On August 31 2011 21:24 Poopi wrote:
I know it's not you that posted that but I can't find IVN post to quote him directly.
CoCa having a better ZvT than NesTea?
Seriously some people need to think before they write, CoCa has done awful in ZvT in GSL and even if he did good he would not still be as strong as NesTea... Even DRG who has like the best ZvT record is maybe not as good as NesTea in ZvT because we haven't see him play enough vT series yet in GSL (MLG don't really count), for example he seems invincible in every match-up in GSTL even ZvP but he still lost in code A and MLG (and even code A qualifiers) some ZvP...
I don't think Coca has better ZvT than Nestea either, but DRG didn't lose in Code A to T. The previous season when he lost at the last round of qualifiers, it was vs P. This season in Code A, he again got knocked out by a P. His TvZ is IMO better than Nestea's.
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On August 31 2011 21:26 Maghetti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:21 Rococo wrote:On August 31 2011 21:16 Femari wrote:On August 31 2011 21:13 IVN wrote:On August 31 2011 20:54 Kinch wrote:On August 31 2011 20:52 jackdaleaper wrote:
As a zerg I'm glad July won this, but based on his play I'm scared for him against MVP. Well ... MVP is freaking good. He manhandled Nestea, so what Zerg would give him a fight? Coca and DRG. They both have better ZvT than Nestea. Its Nestea's weakest MU. Well DRG did take a game off MVP at Anaheim so we know he can put up a fight in a Bo3. The game he won was was a silly Thor rush strategy by MVP. The other two were standard macro games and fairly one sided. DRG didn't really look any better than Nestea in them. He didn't do a silly thor rush, he played a mech style, which is very common. That was a macro game, and he made a push when he got a big army.
I'm sorry 2 base rush to 8 thors and attack with scvs is not standard, nor a macro game. Mvp's entire game plan in that game was to surprise drg with thors and hope he didn't make a roach Warren. DRG is very hard to beat on dual site.
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On August 31 2011 21:05 Disquiet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:00 Micket wrote:
What July lacks in creep spread and injects, he makes up for superb decision making and utilizing the Zerg arsenal as flawed as it may be. Players like July and Nestea show us that zerg arsenal is NOT flawed, no matter what other people might think, they are just using it wrong. I can't count how many times I've seen ultras called useless and july shows thats far from the case.
Zerg are still far more limited in unit choice than Terran or Protoss. They have Zerglings, Roaches, Hydralisks and Ultralisks as their standard ground options and both Hydralisks and Ultralisks are terrible and don't see much use. Don't be fooled by Julys Ultra usage, he was running 60+ supply of Ultras into an enemy force half that size, it's no surprise he came out on top. If he was facing a full Terran deathball with the amount of Marauders you usually see the Uldras would've died embarrassingly fast and he would've lose. Luckily for July he was already in a commanding lead, the Ultra remax just sealed the deal.
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It's strange how July seems to perform best when more people are balance whining on TL. He made the finals in March when Protoss OP whine as at its peak, and now he's made the semis in August when Terran OP whine is at its peak.
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On August 31 2011 21:32 Zahki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:05 Disquiet wrote:On August 31 2011 21:00 Micket wrote:
What July lacks in creep spread and injects, he makes up for superb decision making and utilizing the Zerg arsenal as flawed as it may be. Players like July and Nestea show us that zerg arsenal is NOT flawed, no matter what other people might think, they are just using it wrong. I can't count how many times I've seen ultras called useless and july shows thats far from the case. Zerg are still far more limited in unit choice than Terran or Protoss. They have Zerglings, Roaches, Hydralisks and Ultralisks as their standard ground options and both Hydralisks and Ultralisks are terrible and don't see much use. Don't be fooled by Julys Ultra usage, he was running 60+ supply of Ultras into an enemy force half that size, it's no surprise he came out on top. If he was facing a full Terran deathball with the amount of Marauders you usually see the Uldras would've died embarrassingly fast and he would've lose. Luckily for July he was already in a commanding lead, the Ultra remax just sealed the deal.
Imo, going ultra is just the easiest way to translate a substantial macro lead into a victory over a terran, since it's a bulky, aggressive unit, and can shrug off siege tanks, which are what generally prevent zerg from ever attacking a Terran. Whoa, that sounds a lot like July <3
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France13022 Posts
On August 31 2011 21:28 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:24 Poopi wrote:
I know it's not you that posted that but I can't find IVN post to quote him directly.
CoCa having a better ZvT than NesTea?
Seriously some people need to think before they write, CoCa has done awful in ZvT in GSL and even if he did good he would not still be as strong as NesTea... Even DRG who has like the best ZvT record is maybe not as good as NesTea in ZvT because we haven't see him play enough vT series yet in GSL (MLG don't really count), for example he seems invincible in every match-up in GSTL even ZvP but he still lost in code A and MLG (and even code A qualifiers) some ZvP...
I don't think Coca has better ZvT than Nestea either, but DRG didn't lose in Code A to T. The previous season when he lost at the last round of qualifiers, it was vs P. This season in Code A, he again got knocked out by a P. His TvZ is IMO better than Nestea's.
I know that he lost to a P, but that's my point, in bo1 gstl he wins against a lot of good P players such as MC, anypro and HerO but he kept losing series vP in MLG, code A and code A qualifiers.
My point is that winning series in code S is a far different story than winning bo1 in GSTL. I expect him to be better in ZvT than NesTea but he will have to prove himself.
After all NesTea only lost series to Mvp & TOP in ZvT. The same TOP who is in semi-final again 
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On August 31 2011 21:32 red4ce wrote:
It's strange how July seems to perform best when more people are balance whining on TL. He made the finals in March when Protoss OP whine as at its peak, and now he's made the semis in August when Terran OP whine is at its peak.
terran op whine is tvp related tho, dont think zergs have to worry about facing an autowin b.o everytime they exp, eager to see if +1 immortals are gonna fix the 1-1-1 issue but i doubt it will
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On August 31 2011 21:35 KimJongChill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:32 Zahki wrote:On August 31 2011 21:05 Disquiet wrote:On August 31 2011 21:00 Micket wrote:
What July lacks in creep spread and injects, he makes up for superb decision making and utilizing the Zerg arsenal as flawed as it may be. Players like July and Nestea show us that zerg arsenal is NOT flawed, no matter what other people might think, they are just using it wrong. I can't count how many times I've seen ultras called useless and july shows thats far from the case. Zerg are still far more limited in unit choice than Terran or Protoss. They have Zerglings, Roaches, Hydralisks and Ultralisks as their standard ground options and both Hydralisks and Ultralisks are terrible and don't see much use. Don't be fooled by Julys Ultra usage, he was running 60+ supply of Ultras into an enemy force half that size, it's no surprise he came out on top. If he was facing a full Terran deathball with the amount of Marauders you usually see the Uldras would've died embarrassingly fast and he would've lose. Luckily for July he was already in a commanding lead, the Ultra remax just sealed the deal. Imo, going ultra is just the easiest way to translate a substantial macro lead into a victory over a terran, since it's a bulky, aggressive unit, and can shrug off siege tanks, which are what generally prevent zerg from ever attacking a Terran. Whoa, that sounds a lot like July <3
Them being bulky is generally what stops them from being useful. Again he was tossing 60+ supply of Ultralisks into a Terran opponent he had already decimated with Zerglings only seconds beforehand, and the damn things still flailed around hopelessly on a line of SCVs on the hold command. Ultralisks are just a really, really bad unit.
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On August 31 2011 21:40 Zahki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 21:35 KimJongChill wrote:On August 31 2011 21:32 Zahki wrote:On August 31 2011 21:05 Disquiet wrote:On August 31 2011 21:00 Micket wrote:
What July lacks in creep spread and injects, he makes up for superb decision making and utilizing the Zerg arsenal as flawed as it may be. Players like July and Nestea show us that zerg arsenal is NOT flawed, no matter what other people might think, they are just using it wrong. I can't count how many times I've seen ultras called useless and july shows thats far from the case. Zerg are still far more limited in unit choice than Terran or Protoss. They have Zerglings, Roaches, Hydralisks and Ultralisks as their standard ground options and both Hydralisks and Ultralisks are terrible and don't see much use. Don't be fooled by Julys Ultra usage, he was running 60+ supply of Ultras into an enemy force half that size, it's no surprise he came out on top. If he was facing a full Terran deathball with the amount of Marauders you usually see the Uldras would've died embarrassingly fast and he would've lose. Luckily for July he was already in a commanding lead, the Ultra remax just sealed the deal. Imo, going ultra is just the easiest way to translate a substantial macro lead into a victory over a terran, since it's a bulky, aggressive unit, and can shrug off siege tanks, which are what generally prevent zerg from ever attacking a Terran. Whoa, that sounds a lot like July <3 Them being bulky is generally what stops them from being useful. Again he was tossing 60+ supply of Ultralisks into a Terran opponent he had already decimated with Zerglings only seconds beforehand, and the damn things still flailed around hopelessly on a line of SCVs on the hold command. Ultralisks are just a really, really bad unit.
I'm not saying they're good. They're just the easiest way to finish off a Terran player. You could try massing up a muta ball and risk one bad engagment to lose you the game, or babysit infestor broodlord while the terran has a field day in your base, or just use the 5 base economy and 3k bank to just cost inefficiently pummel the terran. It's kinda like old school ZvP.
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I wish Ultralisks didn't look like they are permanently lost and just running around aimlessly, such a cool unit 
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omg just woke up and saw that July did it! So happy! He's my only hope for this GSL now, would be so amazing to see him take the title.
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I love how MVP went from bad TvP to completely breaking the matchup. It's obvious he's out for a title after mlg, and no one can beat MVP when he wants a title. Anyone betting against him this GSL is mad 
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July <3
Huk
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Is anyone else convinced that July only spreads creep to draw a dick on the minimap?
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EPT
