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Please keep the following things out of this topic:
-Caster/Stream/player bashing;
-Imbalance/race whine;
-LoL vs the world arguments;
-'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments;
-any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments.
Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games!
Feel free to shoot me a PM or query me on IRC for any questions or comments. Have fun! ~Nyovne
[special edit: Any more derailing over the fact that someone made a Germany vs Poland WW2 joke after page 21 will be met with a week ban.] |
Well all balance discussions aside it was a nerf breaking finals. Damn some very good games to watch!
First game: i really believed MC had this after the first all-in failed.
Second game: Puma way behind losing dropships, 2 production facilities etc. But coming back after killing one dropship and landing a good EMP.
Third game: was bizare, puma also got supplied blocked in the beginning of the game, but managed to get the 1-1-1 into a base trade situation, if it wasn't for that raven 
Puma is really a beast but i must say MC is so damn good, sad to see him go down in this fashion.
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So...MC holds a 1/1/1 build with a 30 supply advantage, then loses soon after anyway. Sounds like getting outplayed to me. Second game he loses a standard game. Third game he straight up loses to 1/1/1. To me, this doesn't sound like a series worthy of too much qq.
What pisses me off is the fact that in the run up to this series everyone is like 'ooomg Puma v MC rematch, NASL finals were amazing, shame it's only Bo5, doesn't do justice to these two amazing players!'.
After Puma cheeses twice, it's all 'PUMA IS AWFUL, I never liked him or EG, he could never beat MC, a.k.a the Protoss Christ, without his absurd terran bullshit, here are all the reasons Puma played like shit like the cheeser he is.'
I'd also like to point out that an OP build doesn't make an OP race. Also to people qqing...we fucking know. We know it looks too strong. Put down your pitchforks and torches and have an ounce of patience. Through the metagame or patching, it'll be fixed.
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On August 22 2011 03:34 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:31 akalarry wrote:On August 22 2011 03:26 karpo wrote:On August 22 2011 03:24 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 03:16 Spicy Pepper wrote:On August 22 2011 03:12 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 03:03 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 02:58 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:
[quote]
A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time. The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead. Look, he got 2-2 within the last minute or so of the game. For the important engagement he was behind on upgrades. Puma stopped upgrading because +1 armour against a protoss with half your supply is pointless. Puma killed his expo, Puma had marvellous reactions to storms (sitting for no more than 40% of a duration except when he knew he was talking out HTs) and he sniped MC's warp prism mid combat. He also engaged at fantastic angles, coming through on both sides of the watch tower, and he also had like 12 medivacs which MC did absolutely nothing abpout. MC got outplayed in game 2. Has nothing to do with balance. Take the same armies, the same ghosts, equalize the upgrades (not hard to do, MC learned this lesson against Thorzain) and shove them at any choke and I'll show you a dead terran bioball. 1/1/1 is clearly a different matter, but I hate all ins anyway. No, it wasn't. Last minute of the game was 3-3 upgrades. It's really not hard to move away from storms anyway. Compared to most high-level PvT, Puma let MC get away with wayyy too many feedbacks and storms. He didn't utilize snipe. Didn't utilize cloak. Missed several EMPs. Puma just simplied hotkeyed all his ghosts into 1 group. Failed in his drops. Didn't do any much harassing damage throughout the game while MC managed to blink into his base and control 2 sets of army at the same time. It's marvellous to think that I can watch a game and then someone can watch the same game and see something completely fictional. Game 2, MC had Puma on the ropes, pulled macro, macroed up, but didn't upgrade fast enough. Lost first engagement after that. Puma missed one or two EMPs, and then he got one off that hit his ENTIRE HT FORCE (which, btw, where all clumped together) as well as sniping the obvious Warp Prism HT drop. If someone killed my entire ghost force with a colossus I'd expect to lose the engagement. MC made a big mistake. It wasn't a small mistake. It was a big one. He let his HTs get caught by EMP before getting storms off. He engaged into a maurader heavy bioball with zealots up a ramp and then tried to charge the other side with stalkers. Neither was playing perfectly. Puma lost a drop or two. The engagement was bad for MC, and I knew the moment it was announced he was putting forges up as Puma was hitting 2-2 that it was going to end that way, just like it did with Thorzain. This balance whine deserves to be thrown at 1/1/1 but I don't know how the hell you expect terrans to deal with infestor play or even HTs if you gut EMP. Do you play the game? I play zerg, and I know a colossus can't take out a ghost. It takes 4 shots. I'm saying its a goddamn mistake. Whats wrong with you people, assuming that I don't play the game because they want to make a general statement. The point is, if I fuck up and lost my ghosts, chances are I'm gonna lose. It happens as quickly to terrans getting caught in bad storms (and they do bloody happen) as it does to protoss getting caught in bad EMPs. Even down to bronze/silver level you rely on ghosts to deal with protoss. Nerf ghosts as hard as half of the whining protoss in this thread are suggesting and you're going to end up reducing terran to being utterly incapable of dealing with deathballs again. MC lost his 3 or 4 HT's in a WP. Puma lost two dropships and all the units in them with 0 damage done. He also lost 2 production buildings early with MC losing nothing, yet he came back easily. Feels kinda weird to me. mc lost b/c of horrible unit composition. you really expect to beat higher upgraded mmm (10 full energy medivacs) + ghost, with less upgraded gateway units, zealots, stalkers, 2 sentries, hts (no archons or colossus)? mc had an advantage when he sniped 2 rax, and decided to make a shit ton of units, and had a big supply lead because he didn't tech as much. however, he didn't press on that issue, and let puma come back to even supply. I think MC was going to try to out-macro Puma at that point in game two. MC was teching up himself. You are right. MC should have pressed the issue further when he sniped those two barracks. He was way ahead at that point
Nope. His upgrades were not done yet. He made a good decision to wait for 2-2 and macro up. As Socke said, late game PvT, Protoss have to play like a Zerg. Because with a lot of warpgates, they can reinforce much faster than Terran can. They then have to deny the 4th. Attacking into a Terran base is just suicide.
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On August 22 2011 03:33 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:25 chatuka wrote:On August 22 2011 03:21 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 22 2011 03:12 chatuka wrote:On August 22 2011 03:10 Vinski wrote:On August 22 2011 02:59 chatuka wrote:
how can people still defend Puma here. I can't say. he didn't play that great IMO and got lucky.
MC played even worse and paid the price. I've never seen MC play that badly before.
As for the race balance, i'll trust blizzard and the maps to fix that problem.
as for personalities. Puma is boring, unattractive, and Disreputable with TSL
I don't dislike EG BTW
MC: Brash, Bold, Competant player who makes bad mistakes against rival opponents.
Perhaps him drinking less soda will help him think more clearly.
Who are you going to root for.. obviously the boss Protoss.
Rofl. Dude wtf. A win is a damn win and I cheered for Puma man I don't like MC nearly as much. And Everyone on teamliquid hates cheese so if anyone wins with it in a tournament the get immediate hate. Lets not forget MC was cheesy player not to long ago. And we have seen Puma beat MC before without cheesing so I would say that he deserved this win. Out classed. good for you man. I think you are in the minority here so have fun. I'll root for the classier player which is MC> MC is classier than whom, Puma? How do you draw this conclusion? wow, you don't even know SC2 history? how about Puma just doing some shady things to TSL. just back stabbing coach Lee. Never explained the EG situtation correctly or loudly enough for Lee to understand what EG wanted with Puma. Puma is the one at fault. I don't blame EG for wanting Puma. I don't blame coach lee for getting upset. Puma should have communicated the situation much better and didn't. which makes him a you know what in my estimation. MC: always reaches out to the foreign community. ballsy and entertaining to watch. Never did BM moves to any of his team-mates or sponsors or the game.. this is so easy,and you can't even understand my points. MC is far classier than Puma. it's not even a contest of debate. Joke ? Puma talked to his coach before, problem was his coached cried in a interview cause he didn't sign a contract and rain, tester and fruitdealer also left, was very childish move by coach lee, but he has had so much drama with sc2 con aswell for treating his players badly. btw you know puma didn't have a salary, right ? Puma never bmed anyone, MC made the throat slash to idra and several disrespectful things to opponents after winning or before games, like slamming booth, saying his opponents are easy, etc Never liked MC
MC is just an entertainer man.. that's theater.
I don't think Puma did. I remember the reports of why Puma felt uncomfortable at the TSL after the
NASL finals.. He didn't tell the coach quickly which is BM. Nor was there a team discussion
on Puma's part with coach lee.
I'm not bashing Puma. All I am saying is that MC is a classier player, style wise and person wise.
that's how I think, and I think lot's of people will agree with me here.
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On August 22 2011 03:30 magnaflow wrote:
All we're seeing is a big circle. Game released: terran OP, few months later Protoss OP, few months later Zerg OP. Now we're back at terran. Can nobody else see this trend??
Man alive some people are ridiculous. I could be wrong but i'm pretty sure the 1/1/1 build was around right from the start, now all of a sudden it's OP
This community gets worse and worse everyday.
This build was a joke when I first saw it in ladder 4 months ago.... Still never found a consistent way to beat it
Same with multi pronged baneling drops
It takes a really long time to see these builds at high levels for some reason
Almost every popular - easy - cheesy build that Koreans do I've seen on the ladder many times. This is the only one that I've seen for over 3 months and still don't know effective ways to counter it (since it is so variable)
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the fastest way we can figure out a meta-solution to 1-1-1 is by shoving first place finishes like this one for Puma down our throats for months to come until Blizzard or somebody else comes up with a solution..so good for Puma
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On August 22 2011 03:34 Ownos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 02:51 morningbreeze wrote:On August 22 2011 02:40 WickedBit wrote:On August 22 2011 02:35 Fig wrote:wow so sad when the best toss player in the world can't beat 1/1/1. At least there is bound to be a patch soon Always look for the silver lining. Im sorry but blizz wont nerf terran. I think we need a new morrow who will just 1/1/1 every game with toss till blizz nerf it or buff toss. I have no idea why all terrans dont do it every game. Is it a morality thing ? Clearly here is a build when decently executed will beat all tosses in the world and there is no good response and doesnt require toss to be 100 times better than terran to hold. PuMA cheesed his way to final win and people are saying he is good ? I saw nothing in this game from Puma that any terran in the world wont be capable off. He is just a random code B scrub who has trouble in korea since he sucks at TvT since everyone is a terran there. Let me see him beet MVP or bomber and I'll agree he is good. All he did is come out of korea to own non koreans . I don't think Puma 1/1/1'd MC in the NASL finals. In fact, I remember him playing some pretty beastly games. Am I wrong? I kind of agree with your point about the 1/1/1's potency, but come on... you really think Flash's practice partner is a scrub? The 1/1/1 looks unbeatable right now. Just like every other powerful build that's ever been discovered. And I agree that if a serious response isn't developed, it will constitute a serious imbalance. But you know full well there's going to be a delay between problem and solution. Abusive builds have come and gone, but pros can't be blamed for using them, and so far the vast majority of them have been solved through innovation, not patches. 1-1-1 has been around since the beta. It was potent then it's more potenter now due to constant protoss nerfs.
So you're taking issue with the word 'discovered', right? OK, conceded. Which nerfs in particular would you blame for this increased potency?
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On August 22 2011 02:51 Sernyl wrote:
MC does 4gate/stargate/DT rush/proxy, wins a tournament = Best player /world
Puma does 1 1/1/1 and then a hybrid 1/1/1 with a weird timing, wins a tournament = Most hated person.
Yep.Sure is great.
What warped reality do you live in?
I'll just address one point: no one is hating Puma for using the best build possible to win.
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On August 22 2011 03:36 laonda wrote:Well all balance discussions aside it was a nerf breaking finals. Damn some very good games to watch! First game: i really believed MC had this after the first all-in failed. Second game: Puma way behind losing dropships, 2 production facilities etc. But coming back after killing one dropship and landing a good EMP. Third game: was bizare, puma also got supplied blocked in the beginning of the game, but managed to get the 1-1-1 into a base trade situation, if it wasn't for that raven Puma is really a beast but i must say MC is so damn good, sad to see him go down in this fashion.
Beautifully written lol
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On August 22 2011 03:38 Ownos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 02:51 Sernyl wrote:
MC does 4gate/stargate/DT rush/proxy, wins a tournament = Best player /world
Puma does 1 1/1/1 and then a hybrid 1/1/1 with a weird timing, wins a tournament = Most hated person.
Yep.Sure is great. What warped reality do you live in? I'll just address one point: no one is hating Puma for using the best build possible to win.
Unfortunately, some people are indeed hating on him, and that gives contrary people ammunition to make dumb statements like that -_-;;
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On August 22 2011 03:34 RedDragon571 wrote:
My analysis:
The reason mc lost is because:
1. He didn't calculate the base trade well.
One factor has to due with Mc suicide prism. After that Puma simply walked over him and
won. One game 2 Puma had better upgrades at better timings. He was uping viking air ups which
is very imporant for dealing with collosi. I dont think the Korean reactions are pretty ridiculous and its
fucking stupid to make all these judgements. Only progamers can play at a high level to call anything
imbalanced.....
see what i did thar?
no, I didn't see what you did there. What games are you watching lol
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On August 22 2011 03:36 The KY wrote:
So...MC holds a 1/1/1 build with a 30 supply advantage, then loses soon after anyway. Sounds like getting outplayed to me. Second game he loses a standard game. Third game he straight up loses to 1/1/1. To me, this doesn't sound like a series worthy of too much qq.
What pisses me off is the fact that in the run up to this series everyone is like 'ooomg Puma v MC rematch, NASL finals were amazing, shame it's only Bo5, doesn't do justice to these two amazing players!'.
After Puma cheeses twice, it's all 'PUMA IS AWFUL, I never liked him or EG, he could never beat MC, a.k.a the Protoss Christ, without his absurd terran bullshit, here are all the reasons Puma played like shit like the cheeser he is.'
I'd also like to point out that an OP build doesn't make an OP race. Also to people qqing...we fucking know. We know it looks too strong. Put down your pitchforks and torches and have an ounce of patience. Through the metagame or patching, it'll be fixed.
well said.
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On August 22 2011 03:28 paradox_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:22 bokeevboke wrote:On August 22 2011 03:12 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 03:03 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 02:58 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well. A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time. The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead. Look, he got 2-2 within the last minute or so of the game. For the important engagement he was behind on upgrades. Puma stopped upgrading because +1 armour against a protoss with half your supply is pointless. Puma killed his expo, Puma had marvellous reactions to storms (sitting for no more than 40% of a duration except when he knew he was talking out HTs) and he sniped MC's warp prism mid combat. He also engaged at fantastic angles, coming through on both sides of the watch tower, and he also had like 12 medivacs which MC did absolutely nothing abpout. MC got outplayed in game 2. Has nothing to do with balance. Take the same armies, the same ghosts, equalize the upgrades (not hard to do, MC learned this lesson against Thorzain) and shove them at any choke and I'll show you a dead terran bioball. 1/1/1 is clearly a different matter, but I hate all ins anyway. No, it wasn't. Last minute of the game was 3-3 upgrades. It's really not hard to move away from storms anyway. Compared to most high-level PvT, Puma let MC get away with wayyy too many feedbacks and storms. He didn't utilize snipe. Didn't utilize cloak. Missed several EMPs. Puma just simplied hotkeyed all his ghosts into 1 group. Failed in his drops. Didn't do any much harassing damage throughout the game while MC managed to blink into his base and control 2 sets of army at the same time. It's marvellous to think that I can watch a game and then someone can watch the same game and see something completely fictional. Game 2, MC had Puma on the ropes, pulled macro, macroed up, but didn't upgrade fast enough. Lost first engagement after that. Puma missed one or two EMPs, and then he got one off that hit his ENTIRE HT FORCE (which, btw, where all clumped together) as well as sniping the obvious Warp Prism HT drop. If someone killed my entire ghost force with a colossus I'd expect to lose the engagement. MC made a big mistake. It wasn't a small mistake. It was a big one. He let his HTs get caught by EMP before getting storms off. He engaged into a maurader heavy bioball with zealots up a ramp and then tried to charge the other side with stalkers. Neither was playing perfectly. Puma lost a drop or two. The engagement was bad for MC, and I knew the moment it was announced he was putting forges up as Puma was hitting 2-2 that it was going to end that way, just like it did with Thorzain. This balance whine deserves to be thrown at 1/1/1 but I don't know how the hell you expect terrans to deal with infestor play or even HTs if you gut EMP. I believe MC was already down 40 supply when his HTs were EMP'ed. Didn't matter at all, since PUMA was going to finish him. MC made some mistakes, like taking 5th base and engaging poorly. He should've exchanged armies and transitioned to Colossi. though Puma didn't play really well except final battle, he was a little lucky. Can't say much about that game, but usually protoss comes ahead in macro game, so props to Puma for winning that game. But overall, I'm feeling less interested at watching SC2 now. Every damn tournament is won by random korean terran (Yes I call the likes of Puma, MMA, Polt, Bomber random) They don't show anything spectacular other than solid play or all-in. Thats not good for SC2 as esposrts. How is Polt and Bomber random? They're both been Code S. Polt has even won a GSL. MMA is now code S (thru MLG) and even made NesTea look human in the group stages. Puma is really the only unknown compared to the other 3. I really dislike what is happening to protoss in the current metagame but you can't make nonsensical statements like some of the best terrans (proven and potential wise) are random.
Well, they are still random for me. They don't show anything spectacular. Except maybe killing own CC.
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On August 22 2011 03:39 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:38 Ownos wrote:On August 22 2011 02:51 Sernyl wrote:
MC does 4gate/stargate/DT rush/proxy, wins a tournament = Best player /world
Puma does 1 1/1/1 and then a hybrid 1/1/1 with a weird timing, wins a tournament = Most hated person.
Yep.Sure is great. What warped reality do you live in? I'll just address one point: no one is hating Puma for using the best build possible to win. Unfortunately, some people are indeed hating on him, and that gives contrary people ammunition to make dumb statements like that -_-;;
And that's the exact reason why we have the bitching about 1-1-1. People are saying MC had nerve issues or played badly and people react to that by complaining about 111.
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On August 22 2011 03:39 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:36 laonda wrote:Well all balance discussions aside it was a nerf breaking finals. Damn some very good games to watch! First game: i really believed MC had this after the first all-in failed. Second game: Puma way behind losing dropships, 2 production facilities etc. But coming back after killing one dropship and landing a good EMP. Third game: was bizare, puma also got supplied blocked in the beginning of the game, but managed to get the 1-1-1 into a base trade situation, if it wasn't for that raven Puma is really a beast but i must say MC is so damn good, sad to see him go down in this fashion. Beautifully written lol
1. MC should have but didn't win game 1.
2. MC should have and didn't win game 2.
3.MC: rattled and starts using some crazy strats.
Puma is not a beast IMO. MC though needs some help in the up and down matches though. GL MC..
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I'm glad Terran found the 1/1/1. Protoss is imba as shit late game
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 22 2011 03:38 morningbreeze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:34 Ownos wrote:On August 22 2011 02:51 morningbreeze wrote:On August 22 2011 02:40 WickedBit wrote:On August 22 2011 02:35 Fig wrote:wow so sad when the best toss player in the world can't beat 1/1/1. At least there is bound to be a patch soon Always look for the silver lining. Im sorry but blizz wont nerf terran. I think we need a new morrow who will just 1/1/1 every game with toss till blizz nerf it or buff toss. I have no idea why all terrans dont do it every game. Is it a morality thing ? Clearly here is a build when decently executed will beat all tosses in the world and there is no good response and doesnt require toss to be 100 times better than terran to hold. PuMA cheesed his way to final win and people are saying he is good ? I saw nothing in this game from Puma that any terran in the world wont be capable off. He is just a random code B scrub who has trouble in korea since he sucks at TvT since everyone is a terran there. Let me see him beet MVP or bomber and I'll agree he is good. All he did is come out of korea to own non koreans . I don't think Puma 1/1/1'd MC in the NASL finals. In fact, I remember him playing some pretty beastly games. Am I wrong? I kind of agree with your point about the 1/1/1's potency, but come on... you really think Flash's practice partner is a scrub? The 1/1/1 looks unbeatable right now. Just like every other powerful build that's ever been discovered. And I agree that if a serious response isn't developed, it will constitute a serious imbalance. But you know full well there's going to be a delay between problem and solution. Abusive builds have come and gone, but pros can't be blamed for using them, and so far the vast majority of them have been solved through innovation, not patches. 1-1-1 has been around since the beta. It was potent then it's more potenter now due to constant protoss nerfs. So you're taking issue with the word 'discovered', right? OK, conceded. Which nerfs in particular?
Everything?
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On August 22 2011 03:41 Dante08 wrote:
I'm glad Terran found the 1/1/1. Protoss is imba as shit late game
What?? Lategame PvT is actually decently balanced and pretty nice to watch. Actually in the whole Ghost vs HT terran usually has the upper hand in lategame.
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btw on 2nd game then mc denied those 2 drops did he moved his army to main army or left them there to keep eye on other drops if he left there was like 8-9zealots and 1-2 ht its like 20 suply army and he had alot more probes than scvs
i think he had to go colosus 1st then switch to hts after terran overmakes vikings
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On August 22 2011 03:37 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:33 rareh wrote:On August 22 2011 03:25 chatuka wrote:On August 22 2011 03:21 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 22 2011 03:12 chatuka wrote:On August 22 2011 03:10 Vinski wrote:On August 22 2011 02:59 chatuka wrote:
how can people still defend Puma here. I can't say. he didn't play that great IMO and got lucky.
MC played even worse and paid the price. I've never seen MC play that badly before.
As for the race balance, i'll trust blizzard and the maps to fix that problem.
as for personalities. Puma is boring, unattractive, and Disreputable with TSL
I don't dislike EG BTW
MC: Brash, Bold, Competant player who makes bad mistakes against rival opponents.
Perhaps him drinking less soda will help him think more clearly.
Who are you going to root for.. obviously the boss Protoss.
Rofl. Dude wtf. A win is a damn win and I cheered for Puma man I don't like MC nearly as much. And Everyone on teamliquid hates cheese so if anyone wins with it in a tournament the get immediate hate. Lets not forget MC was cheesy player not to long ago. And we have seen Puma beat MC before without cheesing so I would say that he deserved this win. Out classed. good for you man. I think you are in the minority here so have fun. I'll root for the classier player which is MC> MC is classier than whom, Puma? How do you draw this conclusion? wow, you don't even know SC2 history? how about Puma just doing some shady things to TSL. just back stabbing coach Lee. Never explained the EG situtation correctly or loudly enough for Lee to understand what EG wanted with Puma. Puma is the one at fault. I don't blame EG for wanting Puma. I don't blame coach lee for getting upset. Puma should have communicated the situation much better and didn't. which makes him a you know what in my estimation. MC: always reaches out to the foreign community. ballsy and entertaining to watch. Never did BM moves to any of his team-mates or sponsors or the game.. this is so easy,and you can't even understand my points. MC is far classier than Puma. it's not even a contest of debate. Joke ? Puma talked to his coach before, problem was his coached cried in a interview cause he didn't sign a contract and rain, tester and fruitdealer also left, was very childish move by coach lee, but he has had so much drama with sc2 con aswell for treating his players badly. btw you know puma didn't have a salary, right ? Puma never bmed anyone, MC made the throat slash to idra and several disrespectful things to opponents after winning or before games, like slamming booth, saying his opponents are easy, etc Never liked MC MC is just an entertainer man.. that's theater. I don't think Puma did. I remember the reports of why Puma felt uncomfortable at the TSL after the NASL finals.. He didn't tell the coach quickly which is BM. Nor was there a team discussion on Puma's part with coach lee. I'm not bashing Puma. All I am saying is that MC is a classier player, style wise and person wise. that's how I think, and I think lot's of people will agree with me here.
Not me, you're a moron.
Not telling your coach immediately is BM? Fuck that. His coach bitched and played the pity card to the media before anything was signed. What if that jeopardized Puma's contract with EG? If Coach Lee really cared about his players he would want what's best for them and have kept his mouth shut. Did Nazgul whine and complain about Huk leaving before anything was finalized? NO.
If I was in Puma's position I would have flipped him off and packed my shit immediately.
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EPT
