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Please keep the following things out of this topic:
-Caster/Stream/player bashing;
-Imbalance/race whine;
-LoL vs the world arguments;
-'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments;
-any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments.
Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games!
Feel free to shoot me a PM or query me on IRC for any questions or comments. Have fun! ~Nyovne
[special edit: Any more derailing over the fact that someone made a Germany vs Poland WW2 joke after page 21 will be met with a week ban.] |
On August 22 2011 03:26 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:25 chatuka wrote:On August 22 2011 03:21 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 22 2011 03:12 chatuka wrote:On August 22 2011 03:10 Vinski wrote:On August 22 2011 02:59 chatuka wrote:
how can people still defend Puma here. I can't say. he didn't play that great IMO and got lucky.
MC played even worse and paid the price. I've never seen MC play that badly before.
As for the race balance, i'll trust blizzard and the maps to fix that problem.
as for personalities. Puma is boring, unattractive, and Disreputable with TSL
I don't dislike EG BTW
MC: Brash, Bold, Competant player who makes bad mistakes against rival opponents.
Perhaps him drinking less soda will help him think more clearly.
Who are you going to root for.. obviously the boss Protoss.
Rofl. Dude wtf. A win is a damn win and I cheered for Puma man I don't like MC nearly as much. And Everyone on teamliquid hates cheese so if anyone wins with it in a tournament the get immediate hate. Lets not forget MC was cheesy player not to long ago. And we have seen Puma beat MC before without cheesing so I would say that he deserved this win. Out classed. good for you man. I think you are in the minority here so have fun. I'll root for the classier player which is MC> MC is classier than whom, Puma? How do you draw this conclusion? wow, you don't even know SC2 history? how about Puma just doing some shady things to TSL. just back stabbing coach Lee. Never explained the EG situtation correctly or loudly enough for Lee to understand what EG wanted with Puma. Puma is the one at fault. I don't blame EG for wanting Puma. I don't blame coach lee for getting upset. Puma should have communicated the situation much better and didn't. which makes him a you know what in my estimation. MC: always reaches out to the foreign community. ballsy and entertaining to watch. Never did BM moves to any of his team-mates or sponsors or the game.. this is so easy,and you can't even understand my I can make up stuff as well. MC kicks babies.
I can confirm for a fact from a reliable source that MC does indeed kick babies.
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On August 22 2011 03:24 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:16 Spicy Pepper wrote:On August 22 2011 03:12 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 03:03 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 02:58 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well. A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time. The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead. Look, he got 2-2 within the last minute or so of the game. For the important engagement he was behind on upgrades. Puma stopped upgrading because +1 armour against a protoss with half your supply is pointless. Puma killed his expo, Puma had marvellous reactions to storms (sitting for no more than 40% of a duration except when he knew he was talking out HTs) and he sniped MC's warp prism mid combat. He also engaged at fantastic angles, coming through on both sides of the watch tower, and he also had like 12 medivacs which MC did absolutely nothing abpout. MC got outplayed in game 2. Has nothing to do with balance. Take the same armies, the same ghosts, equalize the upgrades (not hard to do, MC learned this lesson against Thorzain) and shove them at any choke and I'll show you a dead terran bioball. 1/1/1 is clearly a different matter, but I hate all ins anyway. No, it wasn't. Last minute of the game was 3-3 upgrades. It's really not hard to move away from storms anyway. Compared to most high-level PvT, Puma let MC get away with wayyy too many feedbacks and storms. He didn't utilize snipe. Didn't utilize cloak. Missed several EMPs. Puma just simplied hotkeyed all his ghosts into 1 group. Failed in his drops. Didn't do any much harassing damage throughout the game while MC managed to blink into his base and control 2 sets of army at the same time. It's marvellous to think that I can watch a game and then someone can watch the same game and see something completely fictional. Game 2, MC had Puma on the ropes, pulled macro, macroed up, but didn't upgrade fast enough. Lost first engagement after that. Puma missed one or two EMPs, and then he got one off that hit his ENTIRE HT FORCE (which, btw, where all clumped together) as well as sniping the obvious Warp Prism HT drop. If someone killed my entire ghost force with a colossus I'd expect to lose the engagement. MC made a big mistake. It wasn't a small mistake. It was a big one. He let his HTs get caught by EMP before getting storms off. He engaged into a maurader heavy bioball with zealots up a ramp and then tried to charge the other side with stalkers. Neither was playing perfectly. Puma lost a drop or two. The engagement was bad for MC, and I knew the moment it was announced he was putting forges up as Puma was hitting 2-2 that it was going to end that way, just like it did with Thorzain. This balance whine deserves to be thrown at 1/1/1 but I don't know how the hell you expect terrans to deal with infestor play or even HTs if you gut EMP. Do you play the game? I play zerg, and I know a colossus can't take out a ghost. It takes 4 shots. I'm saying its a goddamn mistake. Whats wrong with you people, assuming that I don't play the game because they want to make a general statement. The point is, if I fuck up and lost my ghosts, chances are I'm gonna lose. It happens as quickly to terrans getting caught in bad storms (and they do bloody happen) as it does to protoss getting caught in bad EMPs. Even down to bronze/silver level you rely on ghosts to deal with protoss. Nerf ghosts as hard as half of the whining protoss in this thread are suggesting and you're going to end up reducing terran to being utterly incapable of dealing with deathballs again.
They were never incapable of dealing with Protoss deathballs after the KA nerf. It was Zerg that was facing the issue. I'm just saying that Terran should be forced to use snipe and cloak.
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Ok, I may be wrong but I believe people are misanalysing the games a little,
Game 1: I expected Puma's first push to fail because he only had 1 banshee. That's fine because he destroyed MC's expansion and traded armies. After MC lost his expansion, Puma had around 20 scvs which is fine to support 4 rax 1 fact and 1 port with mules. MC could not support 4 gates and a robo and so his reinforcing army was very weak whilst Puma's was very strong. MC could not go colossus in this situation because of banshees. Puma pushed out with 3 banshees and MC did not kill enough marines to allow the stalkers to clean up the rest. The marines were in a ball so zealots did not harm them and MC mismicroed as well. Half the time this push fails (which doesn't happen often) it is often due to tank splash on the marines because 30 marines certainly don't die to gateway units with a pdd.
Game 2: I think MC just lost 1 battle and lost the game. Even though he had lots of small advantages including a base lead, huge supply lead, and had cleaned up 2 drops taking no damage, as well as destroying the 4th base of Puma, Starcraft 2 is sometimes confusing. He was at a slight upgrade disadvantage and he lost his templar in the WP as well as getting EMPd. Puma didn't actually micro the fight that well, certainly had a larger clump of units than MC, but I don't think mass zealots are very good against SO MANY MEDIVACS. Actually, come to think of it, MC's army just could not out dps the healing of the medivac.
MC Puma
200/200 170/200
150/200 130/200
120/200 110/200
100/200 110/200
70/200 110/200
This makes me feel a colossus tech switch had to happen sooner. MC could take a page out of mana's book and make 4 robos to quickly make lots of colossi (although Mana had 2 hidden bases which made this easier) and force vikings instead of medivacs.
Game 3:
I thought Puma didn't play this game well at all, I saw 4 marines queued at a barracks when he was on 1 base, I mean wtf this ain't goody. But I think MC was too flustered from the last 2 games which he felt he should have won and so played even weirder. MC could have blink sniped the raven and dt pwned the army and that would have been game but he probably couldn't think straight. The game would have been even more one sided had Puma decided to expand instead of attack.
Edit: Don't you think its scary Puma's best matchup is TvT, which we haven't seen outside GSL.
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On August 22 2011 03:21 chatuka wrote:
I feel that Puma is actually declining in popularity after this match, which is justice.
MC is actually increasing in popularity after this finals.
but MC needs to win the up and downs. cmon nerd baller you can do it.
He really needs to win some matches to keep up with his popularity. People don't like Nestea that much when he beat MKP, but now, he is like the most popular player. Without better win ratio, popularity from personality will fade.
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On August 22 2011 03:26 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:25 chatuka wrote:On August 22 2011 03:21 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 22 2011 03:12 chatuka wrote:On August 22 2011 03:10 Vinski wrote:On August 22 2011 02:59 chatuka wrote:
how can people still defend Puma here. I can't say. he didn't play that great IMO and got lucky.
MC played even worse and paid the price. I've never seen MC play that badly before.
As for the race balance, i'll trust blizzard and the maps to fix that problem.
as for personalities. Puma is boring, unattractive, and Disreputable with TSL
I don't dislike EG BTW
MC: Brash, Bold, Competant player who makes bad mistakes against rival opponents.
Perhaps him drinking less soda will help him think more clearly.
Who are you going to root for.. obviously the boss Protoss.
Rofl. Dude wtf. A win is a damn win and I cheered for Puma man I don't like MC nearly as much. And Everyone on teamliquid hates cheese so if anyone wins with it in a tournament the get immediate hate. Lets not forget MC was cheesy player not to long ago. And we have seen Puma beat MC before without cheesing so I would say that he deserved this win. Out classed. good for you man. I think you are in the minority here so have fun. I'll root for the classier player which is MC> MC is classier than whom, Puma? How do you draw this conclusion? wow, you don't even know SC2 history? how about Puma just doing some shady things to TSL. just back stabbing coach Lee. Never explained the EG situtation correctly or loudly enough for Lee to understand what EG wanted with Puma. Puma is the one at fault. I don't blame EG for wanting Puma. I don't blame coach lee for getting upset. Puma should have communicated the situation much better and didn't. which makes him a you know what in my estimation. MC: always reaches out to the foreign community. ballsy and entertaining to watch. Never did BM moves to any of his team-mates or sponsors or the game.. this is so easy,and you can't even understand my I can make up stuff as well. MC kicks babies.
this isn't made up.. read the Puma goes to EG threads. PUma totally BMd TSL..
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this is so upsetting, people saying puma outplayed mc, puma got 2-0 against mana and white- ra, puma is not a better player than mc, puma won because of 1-1-1 all in from terran, which protoss dont know how to deal with it or its horribly broken. And btw when puma lost to mana and white-ra , he did not use 1-1-1 build. I am saying puma won this tournament not because of him being a better player, he got lucky in game 2 where mc made micro mistake. mc was a better player
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On August 22 2011 03:24 Buff Terrans wrote:The eco is fine in SC2! Toss can chronoboost Probes like crazy and Zerg can produce like 15Drones at once. Also terrans needs his SCVs to Build, while Probes can mine while a building is warping in.
agree, but why Toss and Zerg can't pull SCV into their fight? b/c there's no back up workers. I'm not saying you need to remove MULE, but a nerf would be nice.
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The key to restoring the Protoss might and honor is to kidnap Flash during his 30-40 days off after wrist surgery, then use his brilliant mind to brainstorm the strategies needed to counter all existing and future strategies. To keep him in line, inject a poison into his bloodstream that can only be temporarily mitigated by specially-marked bottles of Pocari Sweat.
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On August 22 2011 03:19 snafoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:07 Sein wrote:
MC's army got split up and taken out several times in that last game. He needlessly lost a few phoenixes and never snuck a probe out from his hidden expo even though it was already saturated. That expensive DT shrine also went to waste because MC only got a couple of DT's that just ran into Puma's balled up army with a raven above it. I believe Puma was also down to 1 building at the end, so had MC built another building somewhere far around the map (maybe even a nexus in the gas vents instead of warping in a few zealots that got immediately taken out toward the end), he may have won the game.
Of course, I realize that hindsight is 20/20 and MC is still one of the greatest player in the world even though he's been slumping a bit lately. However, I'm just pointing some things out because I do not believe Puma's build in the 3rd game was unstoppable. Ok, so we have it figured out how to beat 1/1/1, you have to base trade and hide your buildings around the map and snipe the raven, whilst you kill his buildings floated to the corner of the map with your pheonixs. Seems easy enough.
Stop being so sarcastic and let the anger out. That was just how the situation unfolded in that particular game.
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On August 22 2011 03:23 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:10 aut0mati0n wrote:
Can someone explain to me why 1-1-1 is imba in general? I'm not trying to troll here, but the only reason people are listing for 1-1-1 being so overpowered is that PuMa just beat MC in three very lackluster games (I think MC was not playing up to his normal level).
But yeah is 1-1-1 actually destroying the metagame or is this just normal TL qq after a big tournament? The general reason it *may* be imba: Because the only way to stop it (sometimes) is to do a very specific unit composition with a specific tech path that leaves you very behind against all other terran openers. Its strength and how difficult it is to scout leaves protoss players with the choice of blind preparing for it (which doesnt always work even if they build it) or blindly NOT preparing for it and hoping the terran player doesn't plan to all-in. Central to ALL of this is the fact that terrans can expand in their base, behind a wall, and still benefit from the extra MULES even if its not safe to fly their CC down. Zerg and toss expansions are out in the open for all to see and very vulnerable.
The problem with 1-1-1 is actually that even when perfectly scouted and countered with the best possible build, it most likely results in an easy win for terran. At the highest level there's no build which can consistently beat 1-1-1. It's different in that from all other 1 base cheese builds, in that once scouted, they're usually easy to defend.
Scout DT rush = win
Scout 4 gate = win
Scout VR cheese = win
Scout 1-1-1 = Still lose
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On August 22 2011 03:22 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:12 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 03:03 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 02:58 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well. A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time. The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead. Look, he got 2-2 within the last minute or so of the game. For the important engagement he was behind on upgrades. Puma stopped upgrading because +1 armour against a protoss with half your supply is pointless. Puma killed his expo, Puma had marvellous reactions to storms (sitting for no more than 40% of a duration except when he knew he was talking out HTs) and he sniped MC's warp prism mid combat. He also engaged at fantastic angles, coming through on both sides of the watch tower, and he also had like 12 medivacs which MC did absolutely nothing abpout. MC got outplayed in game 2. Has nothing to do with balance. Take the same armies, the same ghosts, equalize the upgrades (not hard to do, MC learned this lesson against Thorzain) and shove them at any choke and I'll show you a dead terran bioball. 1/1/1 is clearly a different matter, but I hate all ins anyway. No, it wasn't. Last minute of the game was 3-3 upgrades. It's really not hard to move away from storms anyway. Compared to most high-level PvT, Puma let MC get away with wayyy too many feedbacks and storms. He didn't utilize snipe. Didn't utilize cloak. Missed several EMPs. Puma just simplied hotkeyed all his ghosts into 1 group. Failed in his drops. Didn't do any much harassing damage throughout the game while MC managed to blink into his base and control 2 sets of army at the same time. It's marvellous to think that I can watch a game and then someone can watch the same game and see something completely fictional. Game 2, MC had Puma on the ropes, pulled macro, macroed up, but didn't upgrade fast enough. Lost first engagement after that. Puma missed one or two EMPs, and then he got one off that hit his ENTIRE HT FORCE (which, btw, where all clumped together) as well as sniping the obvious Warp Prism HT drop. If someone killed my entire ghost force with a colossus I'd expect to lose the engagement. MC made a big mistake. It wasn't a small mistake. It was a big one. He let his HTs get caught by EMP before getting storms off. He engaged into a maurader heavy bioball with zealots up a ramp and then tried to charge the other side with stalkers. Neither was playing perfectly. Puma lost a drop or two. The engagement was bad for MC, and I knew the moment it was announced he was putting forges up as Puma was hitting 2-2 that it was going to end that way, just like it did with Thorzain. This balance whine deserves to be thrown at 1/1/1 but I don't know how the hell you expect terrans to deal with infestor play or even HTs if you gut EMP. I believe MC was already down 40 supply when his HTs were EMP'ed. Didn't matter at all, since PUMA was going to finish him. MC made some mistakes, like taking 5th base and engaging poorly. He should've exchanged armies and transitioned to Colossi. though Puma didn't play really well except final battle, he was a little lucky. Can't say much about that game, but usually protoss comes ahead in macro game, so props to Puma for winning that game. But overall, I'm feeling less interested at watching SC2 now. Every damn tournament is won by random korean terran (Yes I call the likes of Puma, MMA, Polt, Bomber random) They don't show anything spectacular other than solid play or all-in. Thats not good for SC2 as esposrts.
How is Polt and Bomber random? They're both been Code S. Polt has even won a GSL. MMA is now code S (thru MLG) and even made NesTea look human in the group stages. Puma is really the only unknown compared to the other 3.
I really dislike what is happening to protoss in the current metagame but you can't make nonsensical statements like some of the best terrans (proven and potential wise) are random.
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On August 22 2011 03:25 Whiteman103 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:24 Buff Terrans wrote:nerfing the MULE imo The eco is fine in SC2! Toss can chronoboost Probes like crazy and Zerg can produce like 15Drones at once. Also terrans needs his SCVs to Build, while Probes can mine while a building is warping in. this the mules even it out cuzz of all the minning time u lose making buildings
That's not the point. It's too forgiving as a mechanic, and make comebacks from low Eco situations extremely easy. This way, Terran can perform risky and extensive one base builds that are both cost effective and brutally timed.
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On August 22 2011 03:24 s3183529 wrote:
To wrap it up, 111 is definitely problematic, don't tell me 111 is balanced, but no one know how to fix it without breaking Terran either...
Koreans have been heavily practicing for it lately and the answer is up in the air at this point.
Lately it seems like the 1-1-1 build is being held off more and more by a protoss 1/1/1 with 4-5 phoenixes (to kill the banshees and raven and pickup tanks later if they survive), zealots, some stalkers, 2 obs into 1-2 immortals to take the tank damage and break the contain.
MC tried the build I described in game 3 except without the immortals and lost 2 of his 4 phoenixes with risky harassment. IMO he should've just held onto the phoenixes until the battle actually hit, he was left with only two at the big engagament kind of making them worthless.
I'd like to see maybe Puzzle vs. Puma's 1/1/1 before I make up my mind on it since Puzzle's had success on his stream and in the ICCUP weekly holding it. I was kind of dissapointed with MC's response in game 1 where he used a fairly dated counter to the 1/1/1.
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On August 22 2011 03:28 eviltomahawk wrote:
The key to restoring the Protoss might and honor is to kidnap Flash during his 30-40 off after wrist surgery, then use his brilliant mind to brainstorm the strategies needed to counter all existing and future strategies. To keep him in line, inject a poison into his bloodstream that can only be temporarily mitigated by specially-marked bottles of Pocari Sweat.
Pffft Flash would solve this in 10 minutes
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Can the OP be edited or can someone give results?
Seems obvious MC has lost by all the whine going on
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On August 22 2011 03:10 sjschmidt93 wrote:
Increase forcefield range IMO -- allow us to contain 1-1-1-ers
That would break the game incredibly badly, ZvP ?
Just take away free PDD it is too powerful spell against early game protoss. There are no other early game uses for the spell anyway.
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On August 22 2011 03:28 eviltomahawk wrote:
The key to restoring the Protoss might and honor is to kidnap Flash during his 30-40 off after wrist surgery, then use his brilliant mind to brainstorm the strategies needed to counter all existing and future strategies. To keep him in line, inject a poison into his bloodstream that can only be temporarily mitigated by specially-marked bottles of Pocari Sweat.
Flash would be smart enough to play terran in SC2.
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On August 22 2011 03:25 Whiteman103 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:24 Buff Terrans wrote:nerfing the MULE imo The eco is fine in SC2! Toss can chronoboost Probes like crazy and Zerg can produce like 15Drones at once. Also terrans needs his SCVs to Build, while Probes can mine while a building is warping in. this the mules even it out cuzz of all the minning time u lose making buildings
It also means that any push from Terran is much stronger because even if they bring half their scvs they are equal on income as Protoss, allowing them to reinforce an "all in"
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All we're seeing is a big circle. Game released: terran OP, few months later Protoss OP, few months later Zerg OP. Now we're back at terran. Can nobody else see this trend??
Man alive some people are ridiculous. I could be wrong but i'm pretty sure the 1/1/1 build was around right from the start, now all of a sudden it's OP
This community gets worse and worse everyday.
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On August 22 2011 03:26 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:24 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 03:16 Spicy Pepper wrote:On August 22 2011 03:12 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 03:03 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 02:58 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well. A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time. The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead. Look, he got 2-2 within the last minute or so of the game. For the important engagement he was behind on upgrades. Puma stopped upgrading because +1 armour against a protoss with half your supply is pointless. Puma killed his expo, Puma had marvellous reactions to storms (sitting for no more than 40% of a duration except when he knew he was talking out HTs) and he sniped MC's warp prism mid combat. He also engaged at fantastic angles, coming through on both sides of the watch tower, and he also had like 12 medivacs which MC did absolutely nothing abpout. MC got outplayed in game 2. Has nothing to do with balance. Take the same armies, the same ghosts, equalize the upgrades (not hard to do, MC learned this lesson against Thorzain) and shove them at any choke and I'll show you a dead terran bioball. 1/1/1 is clearly a different matter, but I hate all ins anyway. No, it wasn't. Last minute of the game was 3-3 upgrades. It's really not hard to move away from storms anyway. Compared to most high-level PvT, Puma let MC get away with wayyy too many feedbacks and storms. He didn't utilize snipe. Didn't utilize cloak. Missed several EMPs. Puma just simplied hotkeyed all his ghosts into 1 group. Failed in his drops. Didn't do any much harassing damage throughout the game while MC managed to blink into his base and control 2 sets of army at the same time. It's marvellous to think that I can watch a game and then someone can watch the same game and see something completely fictional. Game 2, MC had Puma on the ropes, pulled macro, macroed up, but didn't upgrade fast enough. Lost first engagement after that. Puma missed one or two EMPs, and then he got one off that hit his ENTIRE HT FORCE (which, btw, where all clumped together) as well as sniping the obvious Warp Prism HT drop. If someone killed my entire ghost force with a colossus I'd expect to lose the engagement. MC made a big mistake. It wasn't a small mistake. It was a big one. He let his HTs get caught by EMP before getting storms off. He engaged into a maurader heavy bioball with zealots up a ramp and then tried to charge the other side with stalkers. Neither was playing perfectly. Puma lost a drop or two. The engagement was bad for MC, and I knew the moment it was announced he was putting forges up as Puma was hitting 2-2 that it was going to end that way, just like it did with Thorzain. This balance whine deserves to be thrown at 1/1/1 but I don't know how the hell you expect terrans to deal with infestor play or even HTs if you gut EMP. Do you play the game? I play zerg, and I know a colossus can't take out a ghost. It takes 4 shots. I'm saying its a goddamn mistake. Whats wrong with you people, assuming that I don't play the game because they want to make a general statement. The point is, if I fuck up and lost my ghosts, chances are I'm gonna lose. It happens as quickly to terrans getting caught in bad storms (and they do bloody happen) as it does to protoss getting caught in bad EMPs. Even down to bronze/silver level you rely on ghosts to deal with protoss. Nerf ghosts as hard as half of the whining protoss in this thread are suggesting and you're going to end up reducing terran to being utterly incapable of dealing with deathballs again. MC lost his 3 or 4 HT's in a WP. Puma lost two dropships and all the units in them with 0 damage done. He also lost 2 production buildings early with MC losing nothing, yet he came back easily. Feels kinda weird to me.
mc lost b/c of horrible unit composition. you really expect to beat higher upgraded mmm (10 full energy medivacs) + ghost, with less upgraded gateway units, zealots, stalkers, 2 sentries, hts (no archons or colossus)?
mc had an advantage when he sniped 2 rax, and decided to make a shit ton of units, and had a big supply lead because he didn't tech as much. however, he didn't press on that issue, and let puma come back to even supply.
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EPT
