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Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
August 16 2011 10:20 GMT
#2501
On August 16 2011 19:18 Scila wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:16 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote:
Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd

EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.

Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.


EMP and storm are apples and oranges. You can be hit by a storm and if you move out of it, you can cut its full damage down by 25, 50, or 75% depending on how quickly you move units out of it. EMPs take effect instantly, so if you're hit, there's no minimizing the damage - the damage is done.


Yeah it's not like you can regen shields and energy...


You actually can't regen shields if the unit is taking damage. Medivacs still heal though.
twitch.tv/medrea
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 16 2011 10:20 GMT
#2502
On August 16 2011 19:17 paradox_ wrote:
i like how you all are debating emp vs storm but the truth is puzzle had the game and missed his kill window. asd had a kill window and took it and won. asd deserved to win that game. it has nothing to do with T>P or P>T.

sucks that puzzle didn't make it. had so much hope!

It's not really a balance issue in that case, it's just frustrating how incredibly fragile Protoss is, as Naniwa mentioned. One mistake, Puzzle dead. asd eats storm after storm and it certainly hurts but it's not game ending.

It's just so much *harder* for the toss.
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 16 2011 10:20 GMT
#2503
On August 16 2011 19:18 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:17 tdt wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote:
Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage.

Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal...

EMP is an effective range of 11 because of diameter of 2. Feedback is 9.


EMP has a radius of 2, not a diameter of 2, unless liquipedia isn't using the right word. Thus, it actually has an effective range of 12, I think.

you guys clearly didn't do maths in high school ^^

if there's a radius of 2, that means it's 2 from the centre of the EMP
since the EMP range is 9, you add 2 on top of the 9 which is 11
lalala
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11075 Posts
August 16 2011 10:20 GMT
#2504
On August 16 2011 19:18 Scila wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:16 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote:
Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd

EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.

Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.


EMP and storm are apples and oranges. You can be hit by a storm and if you move out of it, you can cut its full damage down by 25, 50, or 75% depending on how quickly you move units out of it. EMPs take effect instantly, so if you're hit, there's no minimizing the damage - the damage is done.


Yeah it's not like you can regen shields and energy...


Yeah fortuantely you can usually retreat after mass emps...

So many creeptumors. Wierd 3rd??
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
Ovreel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States206 Posts
August 16 2011 10:20 GMT
#2505
On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote:
Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd

EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.

Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.


It would be nice if you got 100% of the storm effect on every single unit it hit, as well as disabling other casters.
Keo.837 Twitch.tv/Ovreel
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
August 16 2011 10:21 GMT
#2506
Agh

A little bit better marine micro and he could kill the third
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
August 16 2011 10:21 GMT
#2507
On August 16 2011 19:20 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:18 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:17 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:15 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:
(T)asd
vs
(Z)Zenio
on
Dual Sight
Coming up now

Starting on the right is Zenio
Starting on the left is asd

3:00
Zenio opens with a hatch first play and asd goes for 1 rax gas.

4:00
A plain bunker play an inch away from the hatchery becomes a devastating attack by a underwhelming response by Zenio. Two marines in a bunker are pelting a hatchery while reactor'd hellions are being massed. This is looking plainly bad for Zenio.

6:30
asd capitalizes on his lead with a completed expansion and map control instead of a extreme drone barbeque.

8:15
Zenio's macro is still above par. Even with the early bunker attack Zenio has a drone lead. Lair starts as a banes nest finishes and adds a unnatural third base that is unfortunately immediately scouted by hellions.

10:00
Zenios creep spread is again superb but hellions, marines and medivacs are threatening the third.
10:15
asd is scared by Zenio prematurely detonating 10 banelings and picks up his marines. The third base has time to pop.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
August 16 2011 10:21 GMT
#2508
On August 16 2011 19:20 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:18 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:17 tdt wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote:
Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage.

Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal...

EMP is an effective range of 11 because of diameter of 2. Feedback is 9.


EMP has a radius of 2, not a diameter of 2, unless liquipedia isn't using the right word. Thus, it actually has an effective range of 12, I think.

you guys clearly didn't do maths in high school ^^

if there's a radius of 2, that means it's 2 from the centre of the EMP
since the EMP range is 9, you add 2 on top of the 9 which is 11


Except EMP range is 10. Thus, my math checks out, and so does yours - you just had the wrong number.
Haydin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1481 Posts
August 16 2011 10:21 GMT
#2509
Really love the aggressive usage of queens by zenio
aka ilovesharkpeople
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 10:22:30
August 16 2011 10:22 GMT
#2510
On August 16 2011 19:20 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:18 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:17 tdt wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote:
Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage.

Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal...

EMP is an effective range of 11 because of diameter of 2. Feedback is 9.


EMP has a radius of 2, not a diameter of 2, unless liquipedia isn't using the right word. Thus, it actually has an effective range of 12, I think.

you guys clearly didn't do maths in high school ^^

if there's a radius of 2, that means it's 2 from the centre of the EMP
since the EMP range is 9, you add 2 on top of the 9 which is 11


EMP is actually range 10, so he is right

EDIT: gah, I'm off topic; sorry
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
BuzZoo
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1468 Posts
August 16 2011 10:22 GMT
#2511
On August 16 2011 19:20 Ovreel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote:
Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd

EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.

Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.


It would be nice if you got 100% of the storm effect on every single unit it hit, as well as disabling other casters.


LR thread. Cool game in progress. Balance whine from previous game rages on.
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
August 16 2011 10:22 GMT
#2512
On August 16 2011 19:10 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Why don't protoss carry around HT inside a warp prism?

Theres no risk of it dying to marines, they will never get close enough. Snipe can't hit prisms, and terran won't have vikings unless they see colossus.

drop 1 HT, storm, pick up

drop 1 ht, storm, pick up

I don't know how a terran would deal with that without trying to bum-rush the prism, getting into attack range of the protoss ball

Wtf is this
MKP||TSL
wats0n
Profile Joined July 2011
United States509 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 10:23:15
August 16 2011 10:22 GMT
#2513
On August 16 2011 19:17 paradox_ wrote:
i like how you all are debating emp vs storm but the truth is puzzle had the game and missed his kill window. asd had a kill window and took it and won. asd deserved to win that game. it has nothing to do with T>P or P>T.

sucks that puzzle didn't make it. had so much hope!


He didn't miss any window. He actually overextended his push into asd's stim and combat shield finishing. When he tried to kill asd's third it was impossible because his templar on the high ground all got emp'd. The templar he split from his army. Just face it. There's literally no way to uproot a dug in terran with bunkers, who's scanning and running up emp'ing your energy and flying off his buildings if you actually break his siege lines.

There's a reason there's 17 terrans in Code S and everyoen in up and down so far is a non terran.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
August 16 2011 10:22 GMT
#2514
On August 16 2011 19:21 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:20 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:18 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:17 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:15 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:
(T)asd
vs
(Z)Zenio
on
Dual Sight
Coming up now

Starting on the right is Zenio
Starting on the left is asd

3:00
Zenio opens with a hatch first play and asd goes for 1 rax gas.

4:00
A plain bunker play an inch away from the hatchery becomes a devastating attack by a underwhelming response by Zenio. Two marines in a bunker are pelting a hatchery while reactor'd hellions are being massed. This is looking plainly bad for Zenio.

6:30
asd capitalizes on his lead with a completed expansion and map control instead of a extreme drone barbeque.

8:15
Zenio's macro is still above par. Even with the early bunker attack Zenio has a drone lead. Lair starts as a banes nest finishes and adds a unnatural third base that is unfortunately immediately scouted by hellions.

10:00
Zenios creep spread is again superb but hellions, marines and medivacs are threatening the third.
10:15
asd is scared by Zenio prematurely detonating 10 banelings and picks up his marines. The third base has time to pop.

12:30
A marine tank push attempts to draw Zenio away from a drop in the natural but Zenio is not fooled. However Zenio still has the main push to deal with.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
August 16 2011 10:22 GMT
#2515
On August 16 2011 19:21 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:20 youngminii wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:18 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:17 tdt wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote:
Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage.

Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal...

EMP is an effective range of 11 because of diameter of 2. Feedback is 9.


EMP has a radius of 2, not a diameter of 2, unless liquipedia isn't using the right word. Thus, it actually has an effective range of 12, I think.

you guys clearly didn't do maths in high school ^^

if there's a radius of 2, that means it's 2 from the centre of the EMP
since the EMP range is 9, you add 2 on top of the 9 which is 11


Except EMP range is 10. Thus, my math checks out, and so does yours - you just had the wrong number.

damn ok i always thought feedback and emp were equal

i'm calling OP
+ Show Spoiler +
just kidding
lalala
PeggyHill
Profile Joined February 2011
1494 Posts
August 16 2011 10:23 GMT
#2516
On August 16 2011 19:20 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:16 PeggyHill wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:14 Leporello wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 PeggyHill wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:12 Leporello wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:08 Bagi wrote:
I really feel this templar play isn't too effective, especially since terrans started going more ghost-heavy. Would like to see earlier colossus switches and just more colossus play in general.


I just don't like that they bring the templars forward, as if storm were equivalent to fungal growth where the fungal lets the infestor safely retreat. Storm/templar is absolutely a great counter to MMM, even with Ghosts, but you got to engage with your zealots before you storm, even if it means losing some zealots. Don't make your templars the first thing the Ghosts see.


Ugh, do you play PvT? So you would just allow the ghosts some free emps all over your army?


EMPs are pretty meaningless to zealots. It's good to bait them. Feedback snipes are great and all, but it's rolling the dice completely.


lol, emp is devestating to zealots, as it is to every single protoss unit.


Not so much. 50 shield with 0 armor, as opposed to 100 health with 1 armor. It isn't even a third of their health. It obviously isn't a positive, but it's a lot better than even your Stalkers getting EMPd. If a unit is going to get EMPd, you want it to be a zealot.

But if you want to roll your HTs in front of your army in a ball, like a baller, you go.


But your stalkers will get emped, as will your zealots, sentries, immortals etc.

AND then due to the way these battles go (terran engaging and RETREATING, kiting the zealots) the HT will not be able to get storms off, and your 1/3 or 1/2 health army will get rolled by MMM.

MAYBE the ht will get storm off, but if they are behind your army, it will most likely be onto zealots.



DisaFear
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia4074 Posts
August 16 2011 10:23 GMT
#2517
Talk about hot damn, Zenio
How devious | http://anartisticanswer.blogspot.com.au/
artrea
Profile Joined March 2011
Latvia3560 Posts
August 16 2011 10:23 GMT
#2518
Nice defense by Zenio
GreyKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4720 Posts
August 16 2011 10:23 GMT
#2519
holy shit he saved it...
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
August 16 2011 10:23 GMT
#2520
On August 16 2011 19:22 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:21 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:20 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:18 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:17 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:15 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:
(T)asd
vs
(Z)Zenio
on
Dual Sight
Coming up now

Starting on the right is Zenio
Starting on the left is asd

3:00
Zenio opens with a hatch first play and asd goes for 1 rax gas.

4:00
A plain bunker play an inch away from the hatchery becomes a devastating attack by a underwhelming response by Zenio. Two marines in a bunker are pelting a hatchery while reactor'd hellions are being massed. This is looking plainly bad for Zenio.

6:30
asd capitalizes on his lead with a completed expansion and map control instead of a extreme drone barbeque.

8:15
Zenio's macro is still above par. Even with the early bunker attack Zenio has a drone lead. Lair starts as a banes nest finishes and adds a unnatural third base that is unfortunately immediately scouted by hellions.

10:00
Zenios creep spread is again superb but hellions, marines and medivacs are threatening the third.
10:15
asd is scared by Zenio prematurely detonating 10 banelings and picks up his marines. The third base has time to pop.

12:30
A marine tank push attempts to draw Zenio away from a drop in the natural but Zenio is not fooled. However Zenio still has the main push to deal with.

13:00
With less than 150 health remaining on the third base Zenio attacks! He cleans up and saves the hatchery thanks to his inhumane patience.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
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