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[GSL] Aug Code S RO32 Day 3 - Page 124

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2461
On August 16 2011 19:12 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:10 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Why don't protoss carry around HT inside a warp prism?

Theres no risk of it dying to marines, they will never get close enough. Snipe can't hit prisms, and terran won't have vikings unless they see colossus.

drop 1 HT, storm, pick up

drop 1 ht, storm, pick up

I don't know how a terran would deal with that without trying to bum-rush the prism, getting into attack range of the protoss ball


I don't think you realize how fragile a warp prism is. There is risk, 5 marines could run forward and literally kill it in a second.


Well, if you get WP speed your WP will always be faster than even stimmed marines so if your micro is absolutely sublime, you can make it work, theoretically.


Warp Prisms are only 0.01 faster than stimmed Marines, so if they're set to attack you and you aren't travelling in exactly the same direction they're attacking you from, they'll actually be gaining ground on your constantly. Imagine an SCV running around in a square with a Zealot in the middle chasing it. SCVs are faster than Zealots, but the Zealot will catch it because it's cutting all corners.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2462
On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote:
Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd

EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.

Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.


EMP and storm are apples and oranges. You can be hit by a storm and if you move out of it, you can cut its full damage down by 25, 50, or 75% depending on how quickly you move units out of it. EMPs take effect instantly, so if you're hit, there's no minimizing the damage - the damage is done.
PeggyHill
Profile Joined February 2011
1494 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2463
On August 16 2011 19:14 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:13 PeggyHill wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:12 Leporello wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:08 Bagi wrote:
I really feel this templar play isn't too effective, especially since terrans started going more ghost-heavy. Would like to see earlier colossus switches and just more colossus play in general.


I just don't like that they bring the templars forward, as if storm were equivalent to fungal growth where the fungal lets the infestor safely retreat. Storm/templar is absolutely a great counter to MMM, even with Ghosts, but you got to engage with your zealots before you storm, even if it means losing some zealots. Don't make your templars the first thing the Ghosts see.


Ugh, do you play PvT? So you would just allow the ghosts some free emps all over your army?


EMPs are pretty meaningless to zealots. It's good to bait them. Feedback snipes are great and all, but it's rolling the dice completely.


lol, emp is devestating to zealots, as it is to every single protoss unit.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2464
Please win zenio. I can't take another Terran advancing -.-. Going to be the super tournament all over again.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
s3183529
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia707 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2465
On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote:
Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd

EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.

Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.

EMP is clearly better than storm in TvP.
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2466
Latest bunker ever, gets up lol
HinagikUx
Profile Joined January 2011
United States178 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2467
On August 16 2011 19:12 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:08 Bagi wrote:
I really feel this templar play isn't too effective, especially since terrans started going more ghost-heavy. Would like to see earlier colossus switches and just more colossus play in general.


I just don't like that they bring the templars forward, as if storm were equivalent to fungal growth where the fungal lets the infestor safely retreat. Storm/templar is absolutely a great counter to MMM, even with Ghosts, but you got to engage with your zealots before you storm, even if it means losing some zealots. Don't make your templars the first thing the Ghosts see.


the thing is iff you hit a storm while their army is idle, the storm will trigger the T army to move forward so their army will walk into the storm. if ur zealots go first, they usually stutterstep and HT too slow to storm, thus why ppl usually storm their own zealots when they do this...very hard to get ht in position.
uGpTaiga/HinagikUx NA Server
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2468
On August 16 2011 19:15 proot wrote:
It's not a balance issue. When you're fighting storms with heavy marine/ghost/marauder, marines are pretty much all your damage. The game can end in a split second for any race - there was a point in that game where ALL the marines were in red for asd, one more storm would've melted that army.


Yes, this, exactly. Keeping the HTs alive is so much more important than getting off storm and feedback snipes by running your HTs out in front of your army.
Big water
ramon
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4842 Posts
August 16 2011 10:16 GMT
#2469
zenio just wants to knock out those zenex kids!
bisu
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2470
On August 16 2011 19:16 branflakes14 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:12 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:10 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Why don't protoss carry around HT inside a warp prism?

Theres no risk of it dying to marines, they will never get close enough. Snipe can't hit prisms, and terran won't have vikings unless they see colossus.

drop 1 HT, storm, pick up

drop 1 ht, storm, pick up

I don't know how a terran would deal with that without trying to bum-rush the prism, getting into attack range of the protoss ball


I don't think you realize how fragile a warp prism is. There is risk, 5 marines could run forward and literally kill it in a second.


Well, if you get WP speed your WP will always be faster than even stimmed marines so if your micro is absolutely sublime, you can make it work, theoretically.


Warp Prisms are only 0.01 faster than stimmed Marines, so if they're set to attack you and you aren't travelling in exactly the same direction they're attacking you from, they'll actually be gaining ground on your constantly. Imagine an SCV running around in a square with a Zealot in the middle chasing it. SCVs are faster than Zealots, but the Zealot will catch it because it's cutting all corners.


That's why I said it works in theory if your micro is perfect.
artrea
Profile Joined March 2011
Latvia3560 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2471
I think Leenock is best at dealing with bunkers, not sure about Zenio
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2472
wtf zenio..
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2473
On August 16 2011 19:15 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:
(T)asd
vs
(Z)Zenio
on
Dual Sight
Coming up now

Starting on the right is Zenio
Starting on the left is asd

3:00
Zenio opens with a hatch first play and asd goes for 1 rax gas.

4:00
A plain bunker play an inch away from the hatchery becomes a devastating attack by a underwhelming response by Zenio. Two marines in a bunker are pelting a hatchery while reactor'd hellions are being massed. This is looking plainly bad for Zenio.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
hicser
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom109 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2474
oh zenio why?
Polt, MvP, Bomber <3
BuzZoo
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1468 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2475
Zenio's arrogance working against him this time.
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2476
On August 16 2011 19:17 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:16 branflakes14 wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:12 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On August 16 2011 19:10 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Why don't protoss carry around HT inside a warp prism?

Theres no risk of it dying to marines, they will never get close enough. Snipe can't hit prisms, and terran won't have vikings unless they see colossus.

drop 1 HT, storm, pick up

drop 1 ht, storm, pick up

I don't know how a terran would deal with that without trying to bum-rush the prism, getting into attack range of the protoss ball


I don't think you realize how fragile a warp prism is. There is risk, 5 marines could run forward and literally kill it in a second.


Well, if you get WP speed your WP will always be faster than even stimmed marines so if your micro is absolutely sublime, you can make it work, theoretically.


Warp Prisms are only 0.01 faster than stimmed Marines, so if they're set to attack you and you aren't travelling in exactly the same direction they're attacking you from, they'll actually be gaining ground on your constantly. Imagine an SCV running around in a square with a Zealot in the middle chasing it. SCVs are faster than Zealots, but the Zealot will catch it because it's cutting all corners.


That's why I said it works in theory if your micro is perfect.


Fair enough then :D
wats0n
Profile Joined July 2011
United States509 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2477
On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote:
Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage.

Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal...


They're not even remotely close to being equal. You can win the game with 1 emp on a full hp, full energy protoss. You can land two perfect storms on a full hp terran and they just back up and get healed with medivacs. And thats two storms versus 1 emp. That sounds equal to you?
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 10:18:50
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2478
On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote:
Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage.

Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal...

EMP is an effective range of 11 because of diameter of 2. Feedback is 9.

9/10 times I see ghosts getting thier emp off before HTs can feedback so I'd say emp is better.
MC for president
Daniel C
Profile Joined October 2010
Hong Kong1606 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2479
Should have repaired IMO
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
BuzZoo
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1468 Posts
August 16 2011 10:17 GMT
#2480
Really cost-effective from asd.
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