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On August 16 2011 19:12 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:11 Orpheusz wrote:On August 16 2011 19:10 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Why don't protoss carry around HT inside a warp prism?
Theres no risk of it dying to marines, they will never get close enough. Snipe can't hit prisms, and terran won't have vikings unless they see colossus.
drop 1 HT, storm, pick up
drop 1 ht, storm, pick up
I don't know how a terran would deal with that without trying to bum-rush the prism, getting into attack range of the protoss ball I don't think you realize how fragile a warp prism is. There is risk, 5 marines could run forward and literally kill it in a second. Well, if you get WP speed your WP will always be faster than even stimmed marines so if your micro is absolutely sublime, you can make it work, theoretically.
Warp Prisms are only 0.01 faster than stimmed Marines, so if they're set to attack you and you aren't travelling in exactly the same direction they're attacking you from, they'll actually be gaining ground on your constantly. Imagine an SCV running around in a square with a Zealot in the middle chasing it. SCVs are faster than Zealots, but the Zealot will catch it because it's cutting all corners.
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On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote:
Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good. Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.
EMP and storm are apples and oranges. You can be hit by a storm and if you move out of it, you can cut its full damage down by 25, 50, or 75% depending on how quickly you move units out of it. EMPs take effect instantly, so if you're hit, there's no minimizing the damage - the damage is done.
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On August 16 2011 19:14 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:13 PeggyHill wrote:On August 16 2011 19:12 Leporello wrote:On August 16 2011 19:08 Bagi wrote:
I really feel this templar play isn't too effective, especially since terrans started going more ghost-heavy. Would like to see earlier colossus switches and just more colossus play in general.
I just don't like that they bring the templars forward, as if storm were equivalent to fungal growth where the fungal lets the infestor safely retreat. Storm/templar is absolutely a great counter to MMM, even with Ghosts, but you got to engage with your zealots before you storm, even if it means losing some zealots. Don't make your templars the first thing the Ghosts see. Ugh, do you play PvT? So you would just allow the ghosts some free emps all over your army? EMPs are pretty meaningless to zealots. It's good to bait them. Feedback snipes are great and all, but it's rolling the dice completely.
lol, emp is devestating to zealots, as it is to every single protoss unit.
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Please win zenio. I can't take another Terran advancing -.-. Going to be the super tournament all over again.
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On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote:
Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good. Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good.
EMP is clearly better than storm in TvP.
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Latest bunker ever, gets up lol
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On August 16 2011 19:12 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:08 Bagi wrote:
I really feel this templar play isn't too effective, especially since terrans started going more ghost-heavy. Would like to see earlier colossus switches and just more colossus play in general.
I just don't like that they bring the templars forward, as if storm were equivalent to fungal growth where the fungal lets the infestor safely retreat. Storm/templar is absolutely a great counter to MMM, even with Ghosts, but you got to engage with your zealots before you storm, even if it means losing some zealots. Don't make your templars the first thing the Ghosts see.
the thing is iff you hit a storm while their army is idle, the storm will trigger the T army to move forward so their army will walk into the storm. if ur zealots go first, they usually stutterstep and HT too slow to storm, thus why ppl usually storm their own zealots when they do this...very hard to get ht in position.
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On August 16 2011 19:15 proot wrote:
It's not a balance issue. When you're fighting storms with heavy marine/ghost/marauder, marines are pretty much all your damage. The game can end in a split second for any race - there was a point in that game where ALL the marines were in red for asd, one more storm would've melted that army.
Yes, this, exactly. Keeping the HTs alive is so much more important than getting off storm and feedback snipes by running your HTs out in front of your army.
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zenio just wants to knock out those zenex kids!
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On August 16 2011 19:16 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:12 HolyArrow wrote:On August 16 2011 19:11 Orpheusz wrote:On August 16 2011 19:10 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Why don't protoss carry around HT inside a warp prism?
Theres no risk of it dying to marines, they will never get close enough. Snipe can't hit prisms, and terran won't have vikings unless they see colossus.
drop 1 HT, storm, pick up
drop 1 ht, storm, pick up
I don't know how a terran would deal with that without trying to bum-rush the prism, getting into attack range of the protoss ball I don't think you realize how fragile a warp prism is. There is risk, 5 marines could run forward and literally kill it in a second. Well, if you get WP speed your WP will always be faster than even stimmed marines so if your micro is absolutely sublime, you can make it work, theoretically. Warp Prisms are only 0.01 faster than stimmed Marines, so if they're set to attack you and you aren't travelling in exactly the same direction they're attacking you from, they'll actually be gaining ground on your constantly. Imagine an SCV running around in a square with a Zealot in the middle chasing it. SCVs are faster than Zealots, but the Zealot will catch it because it's cutting all corners.
That's why I said it works in theory if your micro is perfect.
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I think Leenock is best at dealing with bunkers, not sure about Zenio
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On August 16 2011 19:15 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:Starting on the right is Zenio Starting on the left is asd 3:00Zenio opens with a hatch first play and asd goes for 1 rax gas.
4:00
A plain bunker play an inch away from the hatchery becomes a devastating attack by a underwhelming response by Zenio. Two marines in a bunker are pelting a hatchery while reactor'd hellions are being massed. This is looking plainly bad for Zenio.
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Zenio's arrogance working against him this time.
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On August 16 2011 19:17 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:16 branflakes14 wrote:On August 16 2011 19:12 HolyArrow wrote:On August 16 2011 19:11 Orpheusz wrote:On August 16 2011 19:10 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Why don't protoss carry around HT inside a warp prism?
Theres no risk of it dying to marines, they will never get close enough. Snipe can't hit prisms, and terran won't have vikings unless they see colossus.
drop 1 HT, storm, pick up
drop 1 ht, storm, pick up
I don't know how a terran would deal with that without trying to bum-rush the prism, getting into attack range of the protoss ball I don't think you realize how fragile a warp prism is. There is risk, 5 marines could run forward and literally kill it in a second. Well, if you get WP speed your WP will always be faster than even stimmed marines so if your micro is absolutely sublime, you can make it work, theoretically. Warp Prisms are only 0.01 faster than stimmed Marines, so if they're set to attack you and you aren't travelling in exactly the same direction they're attacking you from, they'll actually be gaining ground on your constantly. Imagine an SCV running around in a square with a Zealot in the middle chasing it. SCVs are faster than Zealots, but the Zealot will catch it because it's cutting all corners. That's why I said it works in theory if your micro is perfect.
Fair enough then :D
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On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote:
Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage. Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal...
They're not even remotely close to being equal. You can win the game with 1 emp on a full hp, full energy protoss. You can land two perfect storms on a full hp terran and they just back up and get healed with medivacs. And thats two storms versus 1 emp. That sounds equal to you?
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On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote:
Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage. Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal...
EMP is an effective range of 11 because of diameter of 2. Feedback is 9.
9/10 times I see ghosts getting thier emp off before HTs can feedback so I'd say emp is better.
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Really cost-effective from asd.
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EPT
