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On August 16 2011 19:11 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:09 Kiyo. wrote:@dNaniwa johan lucchesi puzzle one mistake and lose.. protoss so fragile  hope he wins the next match.. hes for sure the best in his group T_T Even Naniwa thinks its bs  oh come on... You can't expect to win when you micro so badly... If a terran micro's badly (like bad emp's / bad spread) he dies too.
That's simply not true. There are multiple cases of that simply not being true.
Zenio apparently wants to help asd through. -.-
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i like how you all are debating emp vs storm but the truth is puzzle had the game and missed his kill window. asd had a kill window and took it and won. asd deserved to win that game. it has nothing to do with T>P or P>T.
sucks that puzzle didn't make it. had so much hope!
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On August 16 2011 19:10 SafeAsCheese wrote: Why don't protoss carry around HT inside a warp prism?
Theres no risk of it dying to marines, they will never get close enough. Snipe can't hit prisms, and terran won't have vikings unless they see colossus.
drop 1 HT, storm, pick up
drop 1 ht, storm, pick up
I don't know how a terran would deal with that without trying to bum-rush the prism, getting into attack range of the protoss ball
realy ?
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Just came home, what happened in the asd/Puzzle game? 1/1/1?
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On August 16 2011 19:16 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote: Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good. Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good. EMP and storm are apples and oranges. You can be hit by a storm and if you move out of it, you can cut its full damage down by 25, 50, or 75% depending on how quickly you move units out of it. EMPs take effect instantly, so if you're hit, there's no minimizing the damage - the damage is done.
Yeah it's not like you can regen shields and energy...
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On August 16 2011 19:16 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:15 Daralii wrote:On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote: Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage. Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal... The problem is that, because of the AoE, EMP outranges feedback by two, and ghosts are probably the most mobile caster in the game. And also the only caster that is absolutely useless by itself and is only used to counter the use of specific units, mostly other casters.
I dont think high templars are very good without any energy.
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On August 16 2011 19:17 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:15 Probe1 wrote:On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:Starting on the right is Zenio Starting on the left is asd 3:00Zenio opens with a hatch first play and asd goes for 1 rax gas. 4:00A plain bunker play an inch away from the hatchery becomes a devastating attack by a underwhelming response by Zenio. Two marines in a bunker are pelting a hatchery while reactor'd hellions are being massed. This is looking plainly bad for Zenio. 6:30 asd capitalizes on his lead with a completed expansion and map control instead of a extreme drone barbeque.
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On August 16 2011 19:17 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:13 Soyuz wrote:On August 16 2011 19:07 wats0n wrote: Ghosts are just far away better than templar. The ability to remove energy in an aoe is infinitely more useful than aoe damage. Are you serious? HTs can make archons, HTs can remove energy (not aoe, I know) *and* remove health at the same time, and they've got the aoe damage. I'd say they are at least equal... EMP is an effective range of 11 because of diameter of 2. Feedback is 9.
EMP has a radius of 2, not a diameter of 2, unless liquipedia isn't using the right word. Thus, it actually has an effective range of 12, I think.
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EMP seemed mildly dodge-able in SCBW...I see arbiters dodge that shit all the time..but oh man ghosts now seem to rain EMPs over protoss units ezpz. There's almost no lag from the time it comes out and the time it hits, barely any casting animation, and on top of that the ghosts can CLOAK avoiding detection for their spells to go off.
High templars...they're slow, they're fragile. As a protoss player, you have to split your high templar and ideally your army to minimize EMP damage, but with marauders and marines behind the ghosts, if your army isn't together, it makes it really easy for the terran army to kite/stim/pick off stray units.
Basically protoss players need to pick it up. Every single P is losing (minus huk) so far...
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On August 16 2011 19:18 Ramble wrote: Just came home, what happened in the asd/Puzzle game? 1/1/1?
Nope. Got outplayed with standard Terran bio play.
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I hope Puzzle can win the next game against Byun, there are enough Terran in gsl
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
asd built his starport straight onto the reactor for a fast viking + double medivac
that's pretty neat =)
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On August 16 2011 19:16 HinagikUx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:12 Leporello wrote:On August 16 2011 19:08 Bagi wrote: I really feel this templar play isn't too effective, especially since terrans started going more ghost-heavy. Would like to see earlier colossus switches and just more colossus play in general.
I just don't like that they bring the templars forward, as if storm were equivalent to fungal growth where the fungal lets the infestor safely retreat. Storm/templar is absolutely a great counter to MMM, even with Ghosts, but you got to engage with your zealots before you storm, even if it means losing some zealots. Don't make your templars the first thing the Ghosts see. the thing is iff you hit a storm while their army is idle, the storm will trigger the T army to move forward so their army will walk into the storm. if ur zealots go first, they usually stutterstep and HT too slow to storm, thus why ppl usually storm their own zealots when they do this...very hard to get ht in position.
Also stutter-stepping vs charge is actually FASTER than the movement-speed of HTs. Which means, if your zealots charge in and the T starts stutter-stepping, the two armies will immediately go out of range of storm. Which is why you can never have your HTs in the back. No balance QQ or anything, just explaining why toss has HTs in front.
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Puzzle was storming just enough to hurt everything and kill nothing with no followup. ASD would heal from the damage and return no worse for the wear.
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On August 16 2011 19:14 Orpheusz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:13 zul wrote:On August 16 2011 19:09 Kiyo. wrote:@dNaniwa johan lucchesi puzzle one mistake and lose.. protoss so fragile  hope he wins the next match.. hes for sure the best in his group T_T Even Naniwa thinks its bs  same goes for zerg. you should never clump up (especially not the infestors) Lol, I've seen far worse infestor control than that in almost every game, win or loss. aha. what`s your point?
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It's just so worth making a few roaches like Leenock did yesterday. Just so much safer.
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On August 16 2011 19:18 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:16 HolyArrow wrote:On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote: Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good. Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good. EMP and storm are apples and oranges. You can be hit by a storm and if you move out of it, you can cut its full damage down by 25, 50, or 75% depending on how quickly you move units out of it. EMPs take effect instantly, so if you're hit, there's no minimizing the damage - the damage is done. Yeah it's not like you can regen shields and energy... Good luck running stalkers and zealots, let alone HTs, away from stimmed bio without hidden sentries.
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On August 16 2011 19:18 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:16 HolyArrow wrote:On August 16 2011 19:14 Bagi wrote:On August 16 2011 19:11 Yaotzin wrote:On August 16 2011 19:08 Lann555 wrote: Another Protoss just got outplayed. ASD landed one sick EMP after the other, while I only saw 1 good feedback on a ghost the entire match. And Puzzle was damn sloppy with his HT all game long. Completely deserved win for asd EMPs are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective EMPs. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good. Storms are really easy. There's a reason you almost never see ineffective storms. They have huge range and plenty of aoe so they're basically always good. EMP and storm are apples and oranges. You can be hit by a storm and if you move out of it, you can cut its full damage down by 25, 50, or 75% depending on how quickly you move units out of it. EMPs take effect instantly, so if you're hit, there's no minimizing the damage - the damage is done. Yeah it's not like you can regen shields and energy...
You're missing the point. Regaining health/sheilds/energy after taking damage and mitigating the actual damage done by an attack are two different things -_-;; I hate it when people try to make nonsensical comebacks...
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On August 16 2011 19:18 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:17 Probe1 wrote:On August 16 2011 19:15 Probe1 wrote:On August 16 2011 19:13 Probe1 wrote:Starting on the right is Zenio Starting on the left is asd 3:00Zenio opens with a hatch first play and asd goes for 1 rax gas. 4:00A plain bunker play an inch away from the hatchery becomes a devastating attack by a underwhelming response by Zenio. Two marines in a bunker are pelting a hatchery while reactor'd hellions are being massed. This is looking plainly bad for Zenio. 6:30asd capitalizes on his lead with a completed expansion and map control instead of a extreme drone barbeque. 8:15 Zenio's macro is still above par. Even with the early bunker attack Zenio has a drone lead. Lair starts as a banes nest finishes and adds a unnatural third base that is unfortunately immediately scouted by hellions.
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On August 16 2011 19:16 PeggyHill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 19:14 Leporello wrote:On August 16 2011 19:13 PeggyHill wrote:On August 16 2011 19:12 Leporello wrote:On August 16 2011 19:08 Bagi wrote: I really feel this templar play isn't too effective, especially since terrans started going more ghost-heavy. Would like to see earlier colossus switches and just more colossus play in general.
I just don't like that they bring the templars forward, as if storm were equivalent to fungal growth where the fungal lets the infestor safely retreat. Storm/templar is absolutely a great counter to MMM, even with Ghosts, but you got to engage with your zealots before you storm, even if it means losing some zealots. Don't make your templars the first thing the Ghosts see. Ugh, do you play PvT? So you would just allow the ghosts some free emps all over your army? EMPs are pretty meaningless to zealots. It's good to bait them. Feedback snipes are great and all, but it's rolling the dice completely. lol, emp is devestating to zealots, as it is to every single protoss unit.
Not so much. 50 shield with 0 armor, as opposed to 100 health with 1 armor. It isn't even a third of their health. It obviously isn't a positive, but it's a lot better than even your Stalkers getting EMPd. If a unit is going to get EMPd, you want it to be a zealot.
But if you want to roll your HTs in front of your army in a ball, like a baller, you go.
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