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On August 11 2011 16:46 DBS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:43 Truefire wrote:On August 11 2011 16:43 ShootingStars wrote:On August 11 2011 16:42 oriox wrote:
thank god that cheesy no skill tassadar is out. i doubt he makes it to code a again. No kidding, did 4 gate every game against puzzle who was trying to play a fullup macro game Oh man, that guy doing 4 gate in PvP, what a cheeser. ppl 4gate in PvP cuz its the "best" build ppl 1-1-1 in TvP cuz its the "best" build fucking hypocrites. yoda would tear up the foreign scene np. so would thebest. and so would bitbybit if he hadnt stopped playing. this thread is ridicolous
I don't get the logic in this post. How are they being hypocritical? What does tearing up the foreign scene have to do with anything about the GSL now?
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On August 11 2011 16:57 Mike15xp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:55 Pyre wrote:
1 zealot has 13.3 dps and 2 marines has 14 dps. marines are ranged and zealots are melee and slow as fuck. your point?
Zealot with charge is faster than unstimmed marine, I think?
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On August 11 2011 16:57 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:55 Fig wrote:On August 11 2011 16:52 Worldatlarge wrote:On August 11 2011 16:48 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 16:47 Yang Wenli wrote:
Well If it were me, in order to build ravens just make it so you need an armory. Science vessels needed another building in BW. It doesn't make sense that a PDD is instantly available based on the level of tech construction from 1-1-1. That's actually a really good idea. They have detection from scans. It might mess up TvT a bit, but it would be a huge difference in PvT and no difference in ZvTvZ I'm not even sure that would stop the push from succeeding. There's a variant which is just as effective without the Raven, just one more banshee, one more tank, or cloak. Put cloak on back on the fusion core! It was there during the beta, but terrans weren't using banshees enough for Blizzard's liking, so they made cloak easy to get. They even gave Banshees 10 more hp! Look what they've done! This is a really stupid suggestion as it would make banshees completely 100% useless.
Hey jinro! Much <3. Would you possibly share your opinion on the 1/1/1 stuff? I mean this in the most sincere way, I'm curious what your perspective on it is.
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On August 11 2011 16:57 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:55 Fig wrote:On August 11 2011 16:52 Worldatlarge wrote:On August 11 2011 16:48 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 16:47 Yang Wenli wrote:
Well If it were me, in order to build ravens just make it so you need an armory. Science vessels needed another building in BW. It doesn't make sense that a PDD is instantly available based on the level of tech construction from 1-1-1. That's actually a really good idea. They have detection from scans. It might mess up TvT a bit, but it would be a huge difference in PvT and no difference in ZvTvZ I'm not even sure that would stop the push from succeeding. There's a variant which is just as effective without the Raven, just one more banshee, one more tank, or cloak. Put cloak on back on the fusion core! It was there during the beta, but terrans weren't using banshees enough for Blizzard's liking, so they made cloak easy to get. They even gave Banshees 10 more hp! Look what they've done! This is a really stupid suggestion as it would make banshees completely 100% useless.
I only agree with this because the non-cloak variation of the 1-1-1 seems to be even stronger than the cloak version atm.
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On August 11 2011 16:52 Worldatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:48 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 16:47 Yang Wenli wrote:
Well If it were me, in order to build ravens just make it so you need an armory. Science vessels needed another building in BW. It doesn't make sense that a PDD is instantly available based on the level of tech construction from 1-1-1. That's actually a really good idea. They have detection from scans. It might mess up TvT a bit, but it would be a huge difference in PvT and no difference in ZvTvZ I'm not even sure that would stop the push from succeeding. There's a variant which is just as effective without the Raven, just one more banshee, one more tank, or cloak.
With the raven change to armory, there can only be one common variant of the 1-1-1 that the Protoss focus on countering. Just imagine the Crossfire game, except without the ravens due to my proposed change, there would be no PDD's and the Phoenix build actually crushes banshees and Stalkers can actually dps.
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what if he went HT with chargelots feedback the PDD or the raven and banshee and zealots can mop up marines and scvs
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 11 2011 16:53 FarbrorAbavna wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:52 covetousrat wrote:On August 11 2011 16:50 travis wrote:
the way to beat 1/1/1 is to FE, hope they allin, drop zealots in their mineral line with warp prism after they move out and hope they don't have enough at home to stop it, sac your natural and FF your ramp. that's not very fair though because if they aren't very predictable it may not work, and if they make a banshee at home or don't send lots of marines they can stop it, or if they have a viking protecting home they can stop it. but it works a lot of the time. Or Protoss can start doing some Warp Prism 4 Gate all in. 1-1-1 is weakest before the 6 minutes mark with only 4 marines and a Bunker. isnt a 4gate before 6 minutes pretty much impossible with the nerf to warp gate research?
You can 10 gate and get an allin at 5:30 that is really gay t.T
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On August 11 2011 16:51 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:48 JKira wrote:On August 11 2011 16:46 bokeevboke wrote:
zeal/sentry/stalker/immortal composition beats 1/1/1. bad strategy choice by Tassadar -_- You haven't watched much GSL these days, huh? I watched. Protoss players lost because they played bad.
i swear to god, if blizzard introduced a spell in this game that caused the opponent to DC and give you a free win, there would still be some guys in these threads claiming the other player lost because he played poorly.
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On August 11 2011 16:56 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:54 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 16:50 travis wrote:
the way to beat 1/1/1 is to FE, hope they allin, drop zealots in their mineral line with warp prism after they move out and hope they don't have enough at home to stop it, sac your natural and FF your ramp. that's not very fair though because if they aren't very predictable it may not work, and if they make a banshee at home or don't send lots of marines they can stop it, or if they have a viking protecting home they can stop it. but it works a lot of the time. why would dropping zealots in their mineral line matter? They pull a majority of their scvs and really with a decent amount of banshees and siege tanks I don't see how you would pull this off it matters because they either have to run back to their base, or they have literally 0 economy and slowly start losing their buildings. meanwhile as I said you just keep your main and keep adding to your army and then it's an easy victory.
Its not possible to FF your ramp against this build. Tanks just siege the bottom of your ramp and raven/banshees give them vision, letting you nowhere near the ramp unless u want to sac a sentry for a forcefield or something every time lol.
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On August 11 2011 16:58 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:57 Mike15xp wrote:On August 11 2011 16:55 Pyre wrote:
1 zealot has 13.3 dps and 2 marines has 14 dps. marines are ranged and zealots are melee and slow as fuck. your point? Zealot with charge is faster than unstimmed marine, I think?
Liqipedia says same speed
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On August 11 2011 16:58 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:57 Mike15xp wrote:On August 11 2011 16:55 Pyre wrote:
1 zealot has 13.3 dps and 2 marines has 14 dps. marines are ranged and zealots are melee and slow as fuck. your point? Zealot with charge is faster than unstimmed marine, I think?
20 unstimmed marines backed by siege tanks and banshees are better than gateway as a rule of thumb, barring templar with storm or archons.
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Lol so funny Protosses do 4 gate, 3 gate robo, 3 gate stargate, DT rush, warpprism stuff and other stupid allins all the time and now Terran refuses to die 1 time and counters and all Protoss are like QQ...
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On August 11 2011 16:57 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:55 Fig wrote:On August 11 2011 16:52 Worldatlarge wrote:On August 11 2011 16:48 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 11 2011 16:47 Yang Wenli wrote:
Well If it were me, in order to build ravens just make it so you need an armory. Science vessels needed another building in BW. It doesn't make sense that a PDD is instantly available based on the level of tech construction from 1-1-1. That's actually a really good idea. They have detection from scans. It might mess up TvT a bit, but it would be a huge difference in PvT and no difference in ZvTvZ I'm not even sure that would stop the push from succeeding. There's a variant which is just as effective without the Raven, just one more banshee, one more tank, or cloak. Put cloak on back on the fusion core! It was there during the beta, but terrans weren't using banshees enough for Blizzard's liking, so they made cloak easy to get. They even gave Banshees 10 more hp! Look what they've done! This is a really stupid suggestion as it would make banshees completely 100% useless.
Jinro can you give us your opinion on how this is held please? There are so many random theories going about these threads. What do you and your toss team mates think?
edit: bwhaha Gonna jack that 10gate suggestion.
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On August 11 2011 16:56 susySquark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:50 travis wrote:
the way to beat 1/1/1 is to FE, hope they allin, drop zealots in their mineral line with warp prism after they move out and hope they don't have enough at home to stop it, sac your natural and FF your ramp. that's not very fair though because if they aren't very predictable it may not work, and if they make a banshee at home or don't send lots of marines they can stop it, or if they have a viking protecting home they can stop it. but it works a lot of the time. Wont work: A: They already pulled SCVs, theres nothing to harass/kill. B: FF ramp -> siege the ramp. You cant get in range to FF without losing sentries. C: Banshees can snipe sentries, Raven PDD can protect from Stalkers.
you guys are getting annoying. you're saying it won't work but you don't know what you're talking about, i've actually tested it multiple times. it works very well unless the terran is ready for the warp prism or took weird pre-emptive measures for some reason.
the siege tank point is decent and with good positioning and pushing it could make it very close and you could potentially lose anyways, i would have to play vs someone who did that well. but I still think it's an extremely good response that gives you a very good chance to win, and im not convinced that siege tanks would completely stop me from delaying long enough (even if it takes 2 sentries to forcefield over and over i will gladly sac 10 sentries forcefielding to get 15 more zealots)
I think you guys have already decided there is nothing you can do, and look I agree the build isn't fair lol, I've been saying that for a loooooong time
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On August 11 2011 16:58 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:57 Mike15xp wrote:On August 11 2011 16:55 Pyre wrote:
1 zealot has 13.3 dps and 2 marines has 14 dps. marines are ranged and zealots are melee and slow as fuck. your point? Zealot with charge is faster than unstimmed marine, I think?
Yea, cuz Zealot without charge has the same speed as unstimmed marine. But stimmed marine is faster that chargelot.
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On August 11 2011 16:53 GreatHate wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:44 youngminii wrote:On August 11 2011 16:43 tuho12345 wrote:On August 11 2011 16:41 taLbuk wrote:
Just as Zergs cried over stupid protoss builds, they eventually learned to deal with them, the same will happen with Protoss, so stop filling LR threads with bullshit balance complaints. bullshit, without infestor buff, Zerg can't never beat that!!! lol this is true i fucking hate it when people pull out the "zerg figured out how to deal with x" THEY DIDN'T THEY GOT BUFFED jesus christ there's a difference To be fair, it's easy for them to forget because we also got a huge nerf. The 20 second warpgate nerf was meant to effect PvP, but it was a HUGE (and retarded) setback in the other matchups. Didn't fucking fix PvP either.
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What is interesting about this build compared to say, the 2 rax vs zerg, no one has a damn clue what to do it seems. When the 2 rax came out it wasn't long before idra and ret said the way you hold it is hatch first and fight it off with the drones. Once people got better at controlling their drones this build was no longer killing them. Does anyone actually know what to do vs the 1/1/1? 1base collosi? Fast storm? Archons? I have see different protoss players try completely different things vs this build.
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On August 11 2011 16:59 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:53 FarbrorAbavna wrote:On August 11 2011 16:52 covetousrat wrote:On August 11 2011 16:50 travis wrote:
the way to beat 1/1/1 is to FE, hope they allin, drop zealots in their mineral line with warp prism after they move out and hope they don't have enough at home to stop it, sac your natural and FF your ramp. that's not very fair though because if they aren't very predictable it may not work, and if they make a banshee at home or don't send lots of marines they can stop it, or if they have a viking protecting home they can stop it. but it works a lot of the time. Or Protoss can start doing some Warp Prism 4 Gate all in. 1-1-1 is weakest before the 6 minutes mark with only 4 marines and a Bunker. isnt a 4gate before 6 minutes pretty much impossible with the nerf to warp gate research? You can 10 gate and get an allin at 5:30 that is really gay t.T
Curious Jinro, what are your honest thoughts about the 1-1-1 all-in and how strong it's looking, with the knowledge that it's been around for a pretty long time now? (Rain vs. Genius, GSL Open Season 3)
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On August 11 2011 16:59 liam33 wrote:
what if he went HT with chargelots feedback the PDD or the raven and banshee and zealots can mop up marines and scvs
I'm not sure you can get this kind of thing ready in time. :|
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On August 11 2011 16:53 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 16:53 tuho12345 wrote:On August 11 2011 16:50 travis wrote:
the way to beat 1/1/1 is to FE, hope they allin, drop zealots in their mineral line with warp prism after they move out and hope they don't have enough at home to stop it, sac your natural and FF your ramp. that's not very fair though because if they aren't very predictable it may not work, and if they make a banshee at home or don't send lots of marines they can stop it, or if they have a viking protecting home they can stop it. but it works a lot of the time. lol, the best part is they pull all the SCVs like Yoda did, so what chu gonna drop in his mineral line anyway? no thats even better. if he does that then you completely stop his economy and you can just forcefield your ramp and get an insane economy advantage
falling back on to one base is not the answer. just mass zealot ^^
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EPT
