EPT[GSL] Aug Code A RO32 Day 3 - Page 315
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
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[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
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Poopi
France13018 Posts
But now that he was exposed that much, it seems like he is pretty much figured out, and since every slayers terran struggles against protoss we can assume he is too stylistic / not solid enough in standart pvt... The only surprising loss is MC against Noblesse, but come on, MC lost to BboongBboong in GSTL, losing a bo1 against Noblesse who has very good micro was likely. MC has lost his magic recently, when protoss struggles, but it was the same with terran few seasons ago (July vs MC and then NesTea against InCa). | ||
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Finrod1
Germany3997 Posts
GSL needs to stop giving codeA spots to foreigners. They simply do not deserve any of those spots. I feel really really bad for all the better korean players they didnt get a spot because of them. Foreigners just have a chance if they stay months (no not just 1^^) in korea and train in a progaming house. Otherwise they are going to keep getting rolled. And gstl is no real competition compared to the gsl. If you win there it means soo much less. I really hope GSL stops giving those spots because its just a little freakshow. | ||
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msjakofsky
1169 Posts
On August 11 2011 00:22 ct2299 wrote: Keep your head up Jinro, you've always been one of my favorite foreigners because of how humble you are you, how much dedication you've shown in Korea and your willingness to not only live there but try and integrate and adopt part of their culture as well. Everyone has ups and downs, even the greatest sports players. Just take it easy and don't pressure yourself too much, it took time for HuK to get into Code S as well. Hope things get better for you! Same to Naniwa, I like how this guy is down to earth and never thought he was that great, and realized that Korean competition is truly the best and never settles for less than perfect. Thorzain on the other hand, unfortunately seeing him lose doesn't make me happy, but it makes me happy because it shines a glaring light on how ignorant TL forum users are in their fanaticism that Code A would be a cakewalk for him. l o l. he dominated his opponent in game 1, he messed up in 2 and 3, still, he was the only one of the foreigners to put up a fight. i remember Thorzain destroying Huk some months ago; i remember him destroying Kas who destroyed Nada; i remember him destroying Fruitdealer, beating MC. ok, that was a while ago, but the guy has serious potential, he was a much better player than Huk for example and look how solid Huk looks recently, Thorzain could be a real beast with some korean training. also the thing that tvz is his weakest match up and the other that the metagame is shifting rapidly and Zergs are at a very good at the moment don't help at all. i seriously think it's korean training vs foreigner training. lol@ Stephano training 2 hours, i remember reading Flash trains for 12 hours a day more dedication is needed for the foreigners definitely | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
On August 10 2011 16:49 Darclite wrote: While this does make it hard to argue for the foreigners I admit, people have to stop dismissing these code A players as nameless walkovers. This isn't season 2. The game is a lot more figured out and you don't get here without solid mechanics and great game sense. The Bitbybits have been mostly recycled out and replaced by good players. Do people really want to say "the 40th best Starcraft 2 Korean player is a scrub."? What happened tonight is a group of very good players lost to great players. And some of these players will turn out in two months to be incredible players that have good showings in Code S. No one who played tonight is bad. And while I know some idiot is gonna respond with "lol k make excuses," but did anybody feel like any of those guys played to their potential. No, we wouldn't have 8-0ed the Koreans, but if we saw the best of them we probably would've seen one or two advance and the rest go down 2-1 Second this. There really needs to be more encouragement in this thread for those going to Korea to try and compete. Much respect for their dedication. | ||
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
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unnar
Iceland211 Posts
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
On August 10 2011 23:37 Sockpuppet wrote: Wow, foreigners did awful. Im not gonna lie i saw this coming. Im just confused why everyone thought of them so highly. Because, despite jet lag and lack of practice, these were extremely high level foreigners compared to say FXO (Nani being easily one of the best overall) playing against mediocre Koreans finally. This wasn't a situation where it was just Sjow vs July, MC vs Machine or Hasu vs Bomber....it was Thorzain vs...Yugioh. | ||
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msjakofsky
1169 Posts
On August 11 2011 01:32 Slardar wrote: Oh my God.................. worst morning in the history of morning. GOD ARE YOU JOKING ME. No. nonononono. nono. Koreans are killing esports. nonono lol. hungarians are generally very good at sciences. maybe we're destroying sciences as well. and africans are destroying athletics. eskimos are destroying mush riding srsly, please | ||
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Xercen
United Kingdom375 Posts
On August 11 2011 00:14 Ventor wrote: Have you looked at GSL results lately? It is far from balanced. yeah i've seen the gsl results and since every race has had a champion at least two times, the game is pretty close to be balanced. there will always be a ton of terran players because the campaign was wings of liberty and a lot of players stuck with terran after campaign. of course you need to have a good zvt pvt or tvt to succeed in gsl but that's life. if you zvt pvt or tvt sucks you aren't going far in gsl. | ||
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wklbishop
United States1286 Posts
On August 11 2011 01:18 Azzur wrote: I think many people forget how nerve-wracking and tough code A ro32 is. The koreans who qualify for code A have gone through the cut-throat qualifiers which is excellent preparation for it. In order for the foreigners to do well in code A, they will need to have experience in the booth. ok... I'm fine with people throwing the nerve excuse and it's true, but it annoys me to no end when people just dismiss Koreans being as nervous. I can say that Naniwa, thorzain, Sase, Jinro and Fenix have had FAR more LAN experience than the Koreans who played today and I'll probably be right and LAN tournaments are arguably better preparation for it than the Code A qualifiers where you're not on TV or actually in a booth. Seriously, I get that the foreigners are nervous, but it's unfair to just so easily put it as more of a disadvantage for foreigners than Koreans automatically because the Koreans do have nerve issues as well. Heck, you have players like ZeNexLine and St_Ace that played poorly in the Code A ro32 twice and they made it through the Code A qualifiers, but we all know they're sick good players in other games they've shown. | ||
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Xercen
United Kingdom375 Posts
On August 11 2011 00:54 Tsuycc wrote: For me atleast, it was a matter of knowledge and time, for their opponents the foreigners have had their replays out in the market for some time, and naniwa + thorzain just competed in the blizz EU tournament, which those replays were released, so.... even before that tournament, you got MLG replays and other tournament replays, being released.... Yugioh and Check had all this information to study off of....and naniwa and thorzain have what? Vods....and even then would have to pay money for it, not to mention yugioh and check had i believe a week to practice for their opponent, while naniwa and thorzain had just three days... i think mvp won anaheim not by studying opponents but by being amazing. | ||
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msjakofsky
1169 Posts
On August 11 2011 01:47 Xercen wrote: i think mvp won anaheim not by studying opponents but by being amazing. he's the player with arguably the best mechanics in the world. pretty much everyone knew he wins if he beats mma and drg (which was very likely anyway) | ||
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neo_sporin
United States516 Posts
On August 10 2011 22:20 Topdoller wrote: "There are after all a few actually good terrans in Korea. But overall the few zergs are doing better then the tone of terrans." After what i have seen recently by MMA and MVP, Bomber etc i got to disagree. These Terrans are taking it to another level of play imho. These players are taking 1 and 2 base Terran to the extreams with their micro and multitasking, and the next wave of players will not be far behind them. MC and Nestea got crushed yesterday, like it wasn't even close. It looks to me like the other races need to more aggressive to throw of the Terran timings. I never seen 1 zerg attack before 12 mins into the game, it looked like they were terrified to move out of their base for fear of being punished. Well one reason (spoken from zerg pov) is that if you move out against a terran you end up LITERALLY hitting a wall either at the naturals choke or at the main and the terran army behind the wall is just to cost effective to justify a full fledged attack on a terran base. Given I dont play anywhere close to their level as a masters level player I learned long ago i cant attack a terran base until after i smash their army on an open field. Im not saying its op or anything, but a zerg just cant push into a terran wall early unless its a baneling bust oppurtunity. sitting back and macroing to stand the incomign attack just provides better odds for success. | ||
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hewley
Germany1063 Posts
A lot of people still underestimate the skill level of Code A or Code B. It is shown when everyone on TL is shitting on players like check, rain or the best... Are these foreigners who lost today then even worse? If you look at it historically, no single foreigner in sc2 went to Korea and succeeded. Jinro failed to qualify numerous times for GSL, Huk failed in GSL season 3, the "Korea vs World" players got beaten, FXO got all-killed. But after practicing, Huk is in Code S, Jinro managed to get ro4 twice, FXO all-killed IM. I would only judge them after 3 months practice on the Korean server which is way harder. As of now, of course every foreigner will get dominated by "mediocre" Koreans. Remember that todays conditions weren't optimal for them. So all in all, yes Koreans are way better than foreigners, but one can close the gap with better practice and infrastructure (which is still until know only provided in Korea). | ||
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croupier
United States92 Posts
(caveat: getting into code A is no small feat. It's freaking hard. These guys are very good, with very high level play. But there is a lot of entertaining content of people that are just flat-out better and I'd prefer to watch that) I wonder how much the foreigner results will affect their ability to get future sponsors? I guess as long as they have a fanbase/advertising audience then it probably doesn't change things much. But will the audience stay with poor international tournament results? | ||
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
On August 11 2011 01:46 Xercen wrote: yeah i've seen the gsl results and since every race has had a champion at least two times, the game is pretty close to be balanced. there will always be a ton of terran players because the campaign was wings of liberty and a lot of players stuck with terran after campaign. of course you need to have a good zvt pvt or tvt to succeed in gsl but that's life. if you zvt pvt or tvt sucks you aren't going far in gsl. I really hope you're not serious. Progamers do not play the campaign and base their race off of that. That is the most retarded accusation I have ever heard for the reason for terran dominance. And don't base balance on the actual winners of GSL's. It should be based on overall performance of the races. | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On August 11 2011 01:20 Poopi wrote: @Sixes : the elimination of Alicia is not surprising. When you think about it he was hyped as hell because he eliminated Bomber from the code A qualifiers, then managed to win against Mvp in up&down, MKP and NaDa in groupstages bo1. But when you look at most of his PvT his wins came from various void ray contains or well-executed gateway pushes, a stylistic PvT. But now that he was exposed that much, it seems like he is pretty much figured out, and since every slayers terran struggles against protoss we can assume he is too stylistic / not solid enough in standart pvt... The only surprising loss is MC against Noblesse, but come on, MC lost to BboongBboong in GSTL, losing a bo1 against Noblesse who has very good micro was likely. MC has lost his magic recently, when protoss struggles, but it was the same with terran few seasons ago (July vs MC and then NesTea against InCa). The issue I find is that MC has shown he has good mechanics and a good understanding of the game (especially his PvZ where we have seen some amazing blink stalker use defending multi pronged attacks and the like) but still seems stuck because of protoss inflexibility. They have to commit rather heavily to a tech path (most high tech units need a building and an upgrade) for units that will be hard countered and if they transition a lot of old infrastructure becomes obsolete. The big exception is the templar/dt and archon to or from gateways because they use gateways to warp in and archon transitions are now viable. The templar/archon tech also gives access to the gateway unit upgrades. It would be nice if some form of robo or stargate transition were made possible because as it is I see a stargate I know it's 100% not carriers and phoenixes are so specialized they can be dealt with so that just leaves voids. In the same way I see a robo I don't really fear immortals or observers so I can prepare for colossi several minutes before the toss can even produce the first one (let alone have the necessary range upgrade). If I had maphacks against a Terran I still would need to wait until the unit is being produced to know what is actually happening most of the time (BFH hellion drop, marine tank medivac and banshee with reactor hellions use the same 1/1/1 set of buildings and adons for example). With Zerg I know what the unit is as soon as a building goes down but it's not just going to be slowly produced. A muta transition is 110 seconds until a bunch of mutas. A void ray transition will take much much longer. Given defensive/macro styles are based on reaction it is not surprising that Protoss players are failing given their reaction times are so much longer and they are easier to react to. It's like a sports team where the opponent gets told several minutes ahead exactly what the game plan is or a boxer who would say "ok, now I'm doing my left right left combo, then I'll be tired, drop my guard for 2 seconds and attempt a right cross". Edit: I play Zerg btw, I am in no way biased towards Protoss. | ||
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lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On August 11 2011 01:19 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: i guess a kinda good thing is i saved money? If any of the foreigners would have won I most likely would have bought the pass. Yeah those $10 to see the best in the world play Sc2. A lot of money is that. | ||
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