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Ventor
United States336 Posts
On August 11 2011 00:12 Xercen wrote: this proves the gap between the best foreigners and just average koreans is huge. just goes to show how good mvp mma nestea are when it comes to being pretty damn sick btw the game is balanced. Have you looked at GSL results lately? It is far from balanced. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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ct2299
380 Posts
Same to Naniwa, I like how this guy is down to earth and never thought he was that great, and realized that Korean competition is truly the best and never settles for less than perfect. Thorzain on the other hand, unfortunately seeing him lose doesn't make me happy, but it makes me happy because it shines a glaring light on how ignorant TL forum users are in their fanaticism that Code A would be a cakewalk for him. l o l. | ||
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Skydancer
Italy249 Posts
1) One that play vs the worst foreigner ever seen at GSL (Fenix) 2) And one that play a PvP Intresting... As i predict the only foreigner that could compete in korea is Thorzain. (maybe also because he's T) | ||
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PraetorianX
Sweden780 Posts
 That's what it feels like. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Poopi
France12911 Posts
On August 10 2011 23:59 wklbishop wrote: Has anyone noticed that only 2 protoss made it to the Ro16? And of the two, one faced the weakest foreigner (no offense Fenix) and the other played a PvP. I don't mean to balance whine... but this just sucks in terms of game-variety. That doesn't make protoss underpowered since the protoss eliminated were either bad (Banbans), unknown against previous code S ro4 (Treme vs sC lol), or awful at a match-up against maybe the top 3 zerg (InCa vs DongRaeGu...). Every result in code A was expected, that's why you see a lot of people with 12/12 liquidbet etc. But yeah that's sad for game-variety that we only see hellions vs hellions (and as a T I hate hellions :D) | ||
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Rhedsa
Costa Rica594 Posts
On August 10 2011 23:56 Derez wrote: I don't see the cause for all the negativity to be honest. The main problem is that every time a foreigner plays a korean the expectations get hyped up to way beyond what's reasonable. All of them only arrived in Korea a couple of days before gameday, and you really can't expect them to be playing at their highest level yet. I agree that all the high expectations were kind of a backfiring mindset for the fanbase. In the matches you could clearly see some adaption problems from the foreigners as well as the difference in training and practise. SaSe had some nice micro, Jinro a good defense etc. but there were always some minor setbacks in the early/midgame which can cost you the game in the longrun and can hopefully avoided in the future by playing in korea with better opponents and practise,practise,practise..... | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On August 10 2011 23:56 Derez wrote: I don't see the cause for all the negativity to be honest. The main problem is that every time a foreigner plays a korean the expectations get hyped up to way beyond what's reasonable. All of them only arrived in Korea a couple of days before gameday, and you really can't expect them to be playing at their highest level yet. Thorzain played an impressive series, where he was in a position to win both games he lost (misread in g2 cost him the game, crappy engagement cost him g2), and his first game was very impressive. Sase and Nani got kind of rolled, but they were playing whats arguably their worst matchup. Give it some time and I expect all of them to show us at least close games in the GSTL, and even take a few wins home. Thorzain and Naniwa are quite probably the best and the most motivated players the EU/NA scene has to offer (discounting foreigners already in korea), and if anyone can do it it's going to be them. Also, completely random question: I haven't followed the MLG code A invites, but I assume Naniwa is guaranteed a spot the next round of code A games from his MLG performance? oh man another reasons in another package or i might just missed hundreds reasons burried previously that sounds a like when they're 3months ++ in korea they'll be like Huk just another proof that trainin in korea is the best way to be Gosu while these game's is the current state of best foreigner vs korean a B class korean to be exact | ||
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Like a Boss
502 Posts
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Tsuycc
Canada269 Posts
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On August 10 2011 23:38 Xercen wrote: it's hard to tell who is better but considering that even check, a zerg who isn't exactly well renowned for his skill 2-0 naniwa, the best eu protoss, is quite shocking. it just goes to show that jinro isn't posting results atm because the level of competition is just staggering. maybe it's his playstyle but form is fleeting but class is permanent...and jinro got to ro4 gsl before so his class is not in dispute. he just needs to recover form, maybe changing starts...dropping more or whatever. How is this surprising at all if you're a realistic fan of Nani? Getting rolled by Moon and then Ret does not bode well for facing an A class Korean zerg considering Moon has been code B level for a while and Ret has pretty much always been lower tier code A. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 10 2011 23:38 Blizzard_torments_me wrote: I get where you're comming from Jinro, but that's something really minor. The fact that Terrans need perfect play while zerg can just A move and not even care about the slighest bit of micro just saddens me. I don't know, I watched your games, you played well, but terran is like that, really unforgiving, while I've seen zergs do horrible mistakes and still come back. I'd really like to get your opinion on this. Thx. This is why Jinro is out in korea like a champ and playing hard. He doesn't have a terrible attitude. Doesn't blame his losses on silly things like "My race just isn't as good as his". He knows he didn't play perfectly and knows what he needs to do. Don't taint him with your bullcrap | ||
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Buzzo
58 Posts
give them some time | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On August 11 2011 00:33 Poopi wrote: That doesn't make protoss underpowered since the protoss eliminated were either bad (Banbans), unknown against previous code S ro4 (Treme vs sC lol), or awful at a match-up against maybe the top 3 zerg (InCa vs DongRaeGu...). Every result in code A was expected, that's why you see a lot of people with 12/12 liquidbet etc. But yeah that's sad for game-variety that we only see hellions vs hellions (and as a T I hate hellions :D) Taking a quick look at Code S though MC going to up and down is a bit of a shock, Alicia is also not a bad player. The other thing is that Terran has a few stars and a lot of good players. Zerg has 2-3 stars and a few decent players. Protoss has one or two people with good results (MC, Huk, Puzzle) and then very very little else. Not only that but even those players who do well haven't been amazing us like some of the Zerg and Terran players have coming up with new styles and strategies. From the beginning of SC 2 Protoss has had a list of all-ins and the less used expansion route. Those all-ins were annoying, boring to watch and generally hard to balance. As a result they have progressively been removed revealing a somewhat less developed protoss macro and defensive play which Terrans and Zergs have started abusing (1/1/1, roach ling all ins etc). The issue in my opinion is that because of those all-ins there just isn't (or wasn't until recently) enough data to really determine how the PvX matchup was when Protoss was in a defensive mode. Add to that the fact that a lot of protoss builds are still relatively easy to execute and that Protoss seems to do very well at the masters/diamond level and Blizzard has an obvious balancing problem. As if that wasn't enough of an issue all the units involved in 1/1/1 all ins on both sides can't be changed too much without having a massive effect on the more balanced PvZ and TvZ matchups. Banshees being delayed would make Zerg a lot safer, stalkers being buffed would make 6 gates too strong, siege tanks being tweaked in any way would leave Terran very vulnerable to roaches etc. I frankly believe this is back to the basic difference in race mechanics. Terran is near unscoutable when they go for these builds (they can wall off from drone/probe, the addons can be swapped for completely different builds and the counters to these builds have to be executed before observers or overseers come in). On the other hand Protoss and Zerg fast tech builds have more overlapping counters (anti air turrets giving detection for dts and roaches allowing a player to use spore crawlers/turrets/cannons in order to macro safely at low cost). The fact that tanks can come out so fast after banshees (with or without cloak) off of essentially the same tech and that tanks completely deny cannon defense is what kills protoss on the 1/1/1 build. The banshee also annihilates most things that deal with tanks (immortals for example). Now here's where the scouting part come in. The logical solution would be to say "he is going for only strong units that hit ground, so get phoenix/voidray to kill the tank/banshee" and it would be right, until you realize that the Terran can easily scout a stargate (scans and the like) and implement either cloak or vikings off of yet again the same tech effectively going for an entirely different attack on a moment's notice. I don't really know what the solution is short of a serious change in the way those tech trees and units are set up (but again, anything which would require say a fusion core for cloaking would have a huge effect on TvZ). Possibly making observers trainable at nexus with either a robo or stargate ? This would make observers more prevalent (that could be tweaked, after all if building an observer means not building probes, early observers would be costly, especially if their build time was increased a little. TLDR: Protoss needs to commit a lot more and has trouble playing a reactionary game, this inflexibility is showing, something needs to be tweaked to address it. | ||
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oogieogie
United States3657 Posts
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
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lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On August 11 2011 00:14 Ventor wrote: Have you looked at GSL results lately? It is far from balanced. Ever considered that most of the skilled RTS players in Korea just play Terran? | ||
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
http://cheezburger.com/View/5072178432 | ||
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[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
On August 11 2011 00:14 CeriseCherries wrote: Ugh. Each result i unspoilered was another little part of me that died </3 haha it was kinda the same for me. by the end i was like NANIWA ONE TIME PLZ | ||
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