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NASL Grand Finals Day 1 - Page 1063

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Please refrain from posting and quoting image macros and memes.
Technique
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1542 Posts
July 09 2011 07:21 GMT
#21241
On July 09 2011 16:20 Agnosthar wrote:
Flying all those players to America out for a single BO3 is a joke, either add double elimination or at least make it a bo5.

Agreed.
If you think you're good, you suck. If you think you suck, you're getting better.
Teoyaomqui
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden326 Posts
July 09 2011 07:21 GMT
#21242
On July 09 2011 16:01 Stanlot wrote:
North American Star League no longer has North Americans in it.

Well, it's a competitive league, not kindergarten. If you're not good enough you're going to lose your place in the league, no matter which country you come from.

Most people want to see good games between good players, this first season had a lot of bad games to be honest, I expect we'll see better games next season.
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
July 09 2011 07:22 GMT
#21243
On July 09 2011 16:21 Technique wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2011 16:20 Agnosthar wrote:
Flying all those players to America out for a single BO3 is a joke, either add double elimination or at least make it a bo5.

Agreed.


Code A
DMKraft
Profile Joined December 2010
476 Posts
July 09 2011 07:25 GMT
#21244
What are the recommended games please?
lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
July 09 2011 07:26 GMT
#21245
On July 09 2011 16:22 kNyTTyM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2011 16:21 Technique wrote:
On July 09 2011 16:20 Agnosthar wrote:
Flying all those players to America out for a single BO3 is a joke, either add double elimination or at least make it a bo5.

Agreed.


Code A


Code A is not really designed as a completely international event. It's mainly for Koreans with some foreigners (who are living in Korea anyway). Where as NASL is meant to be an even mix from EU/NA/KOR with naturally players going to the LAN phase only for the weekend.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
July 09 2011 07:26 GMT
#21246
On July 09 2011 16:22 kNyTTyM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2011 16:21 Technique wrote:
On July 09 2011 16:20 Agnosthar wrote:
Flying all those players to America out for a single BO3 is a joke, either add double elimination or at least make it a bo5.

Agreed.


Code A


Code A is the beginning of a big tournament, the GSL.
This is the culmination of an over two months long league.
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-09 07:30:53
July 09 2011 07:26 GMT
#21247
On July 09 2011 15:42 Dingobloo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2011 15:35 Chodes wrote:
But Dallas wasnt MLG's falut Internet messed up. This was a half assed event nevertheless


It's MLG's decision to have that many games playing at once and it causes massive instability to their streams and the games, having that many players on the floor is how they pay for their prize-pool, it's easy to say it's not their fault it's the internet, but they're over-farming their internet in order to not have to spend any of the membership money on the prize pools.

NASL is the other way, they want to pay the players a decent amount (we're talking an order of magnitude larger for first place), and whatever is left over is going into production which means over-working a smaller number of less trained staff.

We have both, you don't necessarily need to choose, but it's important to keep in mind when thinking about the issues each is facing.


All the MLG events so far are like qualifiers for the national championship at the end of the year, which has the same 1st prize as the NASL.

I don't think it's fair to criticize MLG for having a small prize pool when they were planned since last year with a set budget while NASL came about with a big prize pool specifically to hype up the league. These 2 leagues obviously have different focuses that can complement each other - smaller, sustainable (year-round) tournaments that lead up to a big championship and large, hyped tournaments that gets everyone excited but cannot be maintained for a long time. I mean, even GSL had to scale back their prize pool from the first 3 open tournaments (~$85k 1st prize) to the normal GSLs (~$45k) leading up to the super tournament.

On July 09 2011 16:20 Agnosthar wrote:
Flying all those players to America out for a single BO3 is a joke, either add double elimination or at least make it a bo5.

.
It's too bad the NASL and MLG Anaheim are 3 weeks apart. If they are only 1 week apart or maybe 2, the players could just stick around and maybe go visit LA.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Joseph123
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria1144 Posts
July 09 2011 07:28 GMT
#21248
On July 09 2011 16:22 kNyTTyM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2011 16:21 Technique wrote:
On July 09 2011 16:20 Agnosthar wrote:
Flying all those players to America out for a single BO3 is a joke, either add double elimination or at least make it a bo5.

Agreed.


Code A

you play 3 months for code A right? not 1 day qualifications
superjoppe
Profile Joined December 2004
Sweden3683 Posts
July 09 2011 07:28 GMT
#21249
On July 09 2011 16:26 lunchforthesky wrote:
Where as NASL is meant to be an even mix from EU/NA/KOR with naturally players going to the LAN phase only for the weekend.

This sounds more like your opinion of it.
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-09 07:30:43
July 09 2011 07:30 GMT
#21250
On July 09 2011 16:25 DMKraft wrote:
What are the recommended games please?

Alive vs. Darkforce games 2 and 3. Didn't watch the last two Bo3s so I'm not sure about them. Don't bother with the rest unless you like seeing foreigners getting horribly outclassed.
pwnopotamus
Profile Joined July 2011
United States70 Posts
July 09 2011 07:30 GMT
#21251
Just got back from the live event at Ontario Convention Center and I wanted to share my thoughts regarding the long delays due to player intros before each match.

We didn't see any of the intros at the convention center. It seemed like the casters were just stalling for time as the players got situated and set up. I assume there was some sort of video package that the stream got to watch during this time. I never got the feeling we were waiting on a video to finish before the match starting. I think the main reason everything took so long was because the players needed to set up their mouse/keyboard, install drivers, etc... It was amazing how long it took the players to get set up before each match! I guess the computers just kept crashing or having difficulties every time someone tried a new keyboard or something.

I think the long delay between matches had more to do with technical difficulties while players were setting up than purposeful video intros and caster small talk.
Iamyournoob
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany595 Posts
July 09 2011 07:31 GMT
#21252
On July 09 2011 16:14 zolii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2011 16:08 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
On July 09 2011 15:15 Morta wrote:
Even the Homestory Cup was better then this mess,seriously(and that was made in a flat with less people!).Actually HSC was awesome,here and there a little little problem but NOTHING against this mess right here. >.<


Production of HSC was awesome. Great cameras and angles, top notch sound, well organized, colaboration with a pub. They had a tiny budget compared to NASL and most of the crew weren't even professionals and they still made it run so smoothly.


You forgot to mention that HSC had years of experience and knowhow of ESL TV behind them.
GSL has years of experience in doing live events
MLG has experience now cause the have learned on their mistakes
Dreamhack has experience because they have been doing this for quite some time
NASL has experience because... of wait they don't because this is their first major live event

Just give them some slack - they will improve and stop hating without considering the whole picture.



Communication, my friend. It is all about the communication.
I don't mind technical problems that much, they happen, even though I have to say that having good observers, a fixed camera and mananing to have the right mic on air and shut down all the other microphones doesn't seem that difficult to me.
Furthermore I have the impression that the preparation was not good at all. It seems to me like they did not make any tests in advance at all.

But the communication: Really, you can't hype things up like this and then have such a bad showing. With all that money involved, I don't see the issue of hiring one or two people who are experienced in running such big events.
And why do I have to wait for two hours? Nobody told me. Nobody ever said when it would start after all that delay. I didnt hear an apology either when the tournament finally began.
And that is something I do not like.

Keep the viewers informed, say what is up, apologize for the inconvenience and most will understand. And please: With all that hype, all that advertising and that much money on the line, please tell us in advance that the whole thing might lack professionalism - then I'd expect such things to happen and wouldn't probably mind that much.
OrchidThief
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark2298 Posts
July 09 2011 07:31 GMT
#21253
Yeah, go SEn, knew you could make it!
johnnyspazz
Profile Joined April 2009
Taiwan1470 Posts
July 09 2011 07:33 GMT
#21254
On July 09 2011 16:20 Agnosthar wrote:
Flying all those players to America out for a single BO3 is a joke, either add double elimination or at least make it a bo5.

do you remember the gsl world championships? there wasn't as much uproar over the tournament format when players such as white-ra, sen, moonglade, morrow, and jinro got eliminated in a single bo3 in a 16 player single elimination tournament. all those players were also flown to korea.
"The big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less." -Brendan Behan
johnnyspazz
Profile Joined April 2009
Taiwan1470 Posts
July 09 2011 07:34 GMT
#21255
On July 09 2011 16:30 pwnopotamus wrote:
Just got back from the live event at Ontario Convention Center and I wanted to share my thoughts regarding the long delays due to player intros before each match.

We didn't see any of the intros at the convention center. It seemed like the casters were just stalling for time as the players got situated and set up. I assume there was some sort of video package that the stream got to watch during this time. I never got the feeling we were waiting on a video to finish before the match starting. I think the main reason everything took so long was because the players needed to set up their mouse/keyboard, install drivers, etc... It was amazing how long it took the players to get set up before each match! I guess the computers just kept crashing or having difficulties every time someone tried a new keyboard or something.

I think the long delay between matches had more to do with technical difficulties while players were setting up than purposeful video intros and caster small talk.

wow, that really sucks if they didn't play the intro videos for the live crowd. that is seriously fucked up.
"The big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less." -Brendan Behan
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
July 09 2011 07:34 GMT
#21256
On July 09 2011 16:30 pwnopotamus wrote:
Just got back from the live event at Ontario Convention Center and I wanted to share my thoughts regarding the long delays due to player intros before each match.

We didn't see any of the intros at the convention center. It seemed like the casters were just stalling for time as the players got situated and set up. I assume there was some sort of video package that the stream got to watch during this time. I never got the feeling we were waiting on a video to finish before the match starting. I think the main reason everything took so long was because the players needed to set up their mouse/keyboard, install drivers, etc... It was amazing how long it took the players to get set up before each match! I guess the computers just kept crashing or having difficulties every time someone tried a new keyboard or something.

I think the long delay between matches had more to do with technical difficulties while players were setting up than purposeful video intros and caster small talk.


Hopefully that is the case. Now that the players have all used those comps at least once, maybe it won't take as long for the rest of the weekend.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
fant0m
Profile Joined May 2010
964 Posts
July 09 2011 07:35 GMT
#21257
On July 09 2011 16:26 JBright wrote:

All the MLG events so far are like qualifiers for the national championship at the end of the year, which has the same 1st prize as the NASL.


Well, to be fair there are 3 NASLs planned per year, as far as I know. And I think they all have the same prize pool. There's only 1 MLG championship per year.
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
July 09 2011 07:35 GMT
#21258
But the communication: Really, you can't hype things up like this and then have such a bad showing. With all that money involved, I don't see the issue of hiring one or two people who are experienced in running such big events.
And why do I have to wait for two hours? Nobody told me. Nobody ever said when it would start after all that delay. I didnt hear an apology either when the tournament finally began.
And that is something I do not like.


That is all great and there a lot of other people out there who feel like you do. Question is, will they buy season 2? I bought season 1 based off of hype, I regret it now, not because of the financial loss but supporting something that after seeing it for a full season I don't endorse. Your criticism means nothing if you don't vote with your wallet next season.
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
July 09 2011 07:37 GMT
#21259
do you remember the gsl world championships? there wasn't as much uproar over the tournament format when players such as white-ra, sen, moonglade, morrow, and jinro got eliminated in a single bo3 in a 16 player single elimination tournament. all those players were also flown to korea.


Nice try but there was a team competition, THEN a tournament after it, neither of which required several months of league play to get into.
Kintaran
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2 Posts
July 09 2011 07:37 GMT
#21260
On July 09 2011 16:30 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2011 16:25 DMKraft wrote:
What are the recommended games please?

Alive vs. Darkforce games 2 and 3. Didn't watch the last two Bo3s so I'm not sure about them. Don't bother with the rest unless you like seeing foreigners getting horribly outclassed.


Those games were alive being terrible and throwing the match away.

Puma's nearly flawless disposal of Ret is worth watching for the perfection of execution. Summarily terminating a player of Ret's caliber with such clean play is instructive AND entertaining.
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