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Sadly it seems I have to put this up yet again. Any of the following types of posts will be met with immediate bans:
Imbalance whine/Player bashing/Caster bashing/Stream complaining/Off topic arguing.
Stick to the games and enjoy the event and its free services and coverage. |
On June 20 2011 21:00 jj33 wrote:
Its not just the training, its also talent. Not anyone can be as good as the really good progamers. Huk obviously had some talent from the beginning.
Guys like flash jaedong and bisu are once in a generation type of talent
and they're all 3 from the same generation...
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please tl! deal whith this canadian/korean issue like the iq shit.im going to puke
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On June 20 2011 20:52 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 20:51 furymonkey wrote:On June 20 2011 20:46 Gheizen64 wrote:
This topic is so stupid to read.
Suddendly people think the nation where you play has to determine your nationality. It isn't like this in ANY sport, so please stfu. If people move to a nation with better infrastructures for training they don't change nationality. Messi and Ronaldo aren't spanish , they play in spanish teams. Same goes for Huk, he isn't Korean for the mother of god, he play in a korean team.
I couldn't care less about who win but the fanboysm in this thread is making me puke. Only a few clueless people thinks nationality is the focus of discussion, this including you. What people are saying is the training style of Korean versus the foreigners, which still stands and clearly proven when the top 4 players all undergo the Korean style training. There is no foreigner style of training at all.
Indeed, everyone just pretty much does their own thing.
The most important thing about the Korean scene is not, however, how many hours you play on Battle.net each day. It's the availability of many other players who are training just as hard and effectively.
You are only as good as your training partners allow you to be. A single foreigner cannot simply step up and say, "I'll practice like the Koreans do and that'll make me as good as them." They all have to. Otherwise, it'll be like Idra playing on NA ladder for twelve hours a day - that's not practice. That's noob stomping.
This is the reason going to Korea is different than simply training harder back home. In Korea, especially in a good team house, as TL is in, you have the opportunity to train against the hardest training players.
In NA/EU, you don't, and as long as the infrastructure isn't in place, you won't.
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Can we not forget that Moon (since his Tarson and Huk games) has played very very well, he might be in for a surprise.
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On June 20 2011 20:58 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 20:55 ForTheDr3am wrote:On June 20 2011 20:51 hifriend wrote:On June 20 2011 20:47 ondik wrote:On June 20 2011 20:40 hifriend wrote:
That was some remarkably bad play by july, but spire vs blink is always a tough situation so..
At least I get to see bomber own him in the finals (seriously no chance for huk vs bomber).. dude..you already said you dislike HuK for being arrogant (what's interesting to me as you apparently like MC), why more hatred? It's annoying seeing him cruise through an easy group then bracket followed by july playing terribly. Superior protoss' like MC/Nani/White-Ra got tough opponents throughout the tournament and performed equally well without blindly going dt's half the time, yet now half the people in this thread are talking about huk as if he's suddenly the best protoss on the planet. Sigh. From what can you conclude that Naniwa and White-Ra are better than Huk? I mean, they both went 0-2 vs Moon while Huk won 2-0 against him. Huk has dropped a single game in this tournament, what should he have done better? I'm not saying it's his fault that he only got to face easy opponents and a few decent opponents playing like absolute shit. Moon and july basically gave their series to huk. I'm saying MC/White-Ra/Nani are better players because they have many more accomplishments and aren't prone to effortlessly dice rolling for BO wins all the time.
None of HuK's builds so far have been dice roll wins. All have been standard macro games as far as I can tell.. WhiteRa doesn't have better accomplishments than HuK on any measure.
You are just straight up watching the games with biased glasses on. HuK is playing well and making his opponents look bad. Not the other way around.
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On June 20 2011 20:59 clusen wrote:
What, there was an IQ debate? Why?
Something about Greenland dominating SC2 if they ever got into the game, I think.
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On June 20 2011 20:59 koolaid1990 wrote:
Lol people voting huk is a foreigner because they dont want to admit that koreans are dominant in these tournies.. huk is pretty much korean. If they cant admit that, everyone should say dde, moonan, select are not NA players but korean players.
OH GOD HES NOT KOREAN, whats wrong with you sir?
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I voted for 'Foreigner' because he's is of Canadian nationality and is living in Korea. Had the poll been for someone like Idra I would regard him as a American, and he's and American national living in America. Simple.
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On June 20 2011 20:55 Megaliskuu wrote:Everyone assumes bomber will make the finals. Poor moon 
Hey, I've been rooting for Moon all the way, even predicted he'd take down Naniwa. Everyone seriously underestimating this guy...
However, Bomber is just on another level. I'm not even really a fan of the guy, but he's ridiculously good. If Moon does take him down, though... he better start getting some credit, already!
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United States23455 Posts
On June 20 2011 20:56 coko wrote:
I really don't get it, your nationality is based on your passport, his is Canadian, he is Canadian, where he lives/trains/fucks has no meaning to it ... Have none of you ever lived abroad for any period of time? Sure, you change slightly to fit the culture, but you don't change completely.
Huk has gained more skill from living in Korea, and it can be argued doing so made him a better player that what he would of been by staying in Canada, but you cannot be sure.
If he had lost, would he of been a foreigner then? Is it just that he a beat a korean player that he gets labelled as one? ...
He plays in the Korean scene. Same as Jinro. Jinro got beat down this tournament, but he's still in the Korean scene.
Also I am pretty sure that if Huk stayed in Canada, he wouldn't be at the skill level he is now. There is a radical difference between how most foreign teams train and how Korean teams train. Even if foreigners get houses, it still really isn't the same. They don't have a coach to help them out or put out a training regiment.
Huk is not Korean. He is Canadian/American/Foreigner/Whatever You Want to Debate.
But I would say Huk does represent the Korean scene and how the infrastructure can make someone a much better player. I think that right now, the Korean scene is just super ahead of the rest of the world. I think NA/Europe will catch up, but it'll take a long time. SC2 will have to become a bigger staple in the culture for both places.
And before people go, 'He only represents the Korean scene because he's winning', I also say that Jinro represents the Korean scene as well. He didn't have a good tournament, and you could say maybe that he's in a slump or that he just reached his skill cap in Korea.
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On June 20 2011 21:00 manloveman wrote:
HUK is european, since us/canada is euro immigrants
... actually we all have ancestors from Africa, SO ...
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Someone asked for korean netizen reaction, so here's what's being talked on PlayXP.
1. Not much talk on Huk vs July game in general because dreamhack stream to Korea seems to be laggy as hell even on 240p, and Code S nomination was going on at the same time. Hell, Code S nomination was super fun to watch!
2. Those who talked about huk vs july all said huk played awesome and is improving so much while july played bad especially with roaches.
3. They are not much surprised about his victory. In fact, they are saying all 4 top players are from Korea. (not mentioning nationality but where players are living in)
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On June 20 2011 21:00 manloveman wrote:
HUK is european, since us/canada is euro immigrants
Hahahahahaha. These LR threads are incredible lol.
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On June 20 2011 20:58 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 20:55 ForTheDr3am wrote:On June 20 2011 20:51 hifriend wrote:On June 20 2011 20:47 ondik wrote:On June 20 2011 20:40 hifriend wrote:
That was some remarkably bad play by july, but spire vs blink is always a tough situation so..
At least I get to see bomber own him in the finals (seriously no chance for huk vs bomber).. dude..you already said you dislike HuK for being arrogant (what's interesting to me as you apparently like MC), why more hatred? It's annoying seeing him cruise through an easy group then bracket followed by july playing terribly. Superior protoss' like MC/Nani/White-Ra got tough opponents throughout the tournament and performed equally well without blindly going dt's half the time, yet now half the people in this thread are talking about huk as if he's suddenly the best protoss on the planet. Sigh. From what can you conclude that Naniwa and White-Ra are better than Huk? I mean, they both went 0-2 vs Moon while Huk won 2-0 against him. Huk has dropped a single game in this tournament, what should he have done better? I'm not saying it's his fault that he only got to face easy opponents and a few decent opponents playing like absolute shit. Moon and july basically gave their series to huk. I'm saying MC/White-Ra/Nani are better players because they have many more accomplishments and aren't prone to effortlessly dice rolling for BO wins all the time.
just stop already. moon and july have been tearing through this tournament only to lose to huk 0-2. nani and white ra both lost to moon 0-2. you are clearly just a hater trying to cope with the fact that someone you dont like for some dumb reason is doing extremely well, better than players you like.
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I didnt know you could change nationality if you went to a country...by that standard I'm an American/Brit/Irishman/Spanjard/Italian/German and French..probably forgetting some countries aswell..and actually I'm Dutch...incredible! I guess Idra is still a Korean aswell and Incontrol too...funny..they dont seem too korean to me!
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Foreign scene is more about marketing, getting in bigger and bigger nowadays. Streaming your ladder games is a way of showing off so you can be spotted by people, get their attention. And the more ppl you have watching your stream, the more ppl tweeting bout it the better your chances are to do good for the community.
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On June 20 2011 21:00 Nerdslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 20:56 ribboo wrote:On June 20 2011 20:55 Nerdslayer wrote:On June 20 2011 20:53 ribboo wrote:On June 20 2011 20:52 Nerdslayer wrote:On June 20 2011 20:49 lunchforthesky wrote:On June 20 2011 20:46 Gheizen64 wrote:
This topic is so stupid to read.
Suddendly people think the nation where you play has to determine your nationality. It isn't like this in ANY sport, so please stfu. If people move to a nation with better infrastructures for training they don't change nationality. Messi and Ronaldo aren't spanish , they play in spanish teams. Same goes for Huk, he isn't Korean for the mother of god, he play in a korean team.
I couldn't care less about who win but the fanboysm in this thread is making me puke. Messi plays a Spanish style of football though, even Argentinians say that while Messi is an Argentine national he is a product of Spanish football. Just like Huk is a Canandian but is a product of Korean Starcraft. wtf are you talking about Messi is a product of the argentinians football school. You have no idea wtf you talking about Brazil and Argentina got some of the best football schools in the world. Jesus crist some of you people just plain silly barca signed messi when he was 13. So you got no idea how the argentina schools work. The best players from age 5-6 get recruited into those schools. Messi was allrdy a wunderkid when he was 13 just like Maradona was when he was 10. just like Ronaldo was when he was 15 and moved to Amsterdam Plz stop talking about football stick to sc2 yes, those 6 early years obviously has meant a lot more for him than the 11 he have had in spain. lol. The point im making is that if Messi didnt exist there would be another "messi" or another Maradona. You bet you life that in 10 years time you will still see some of the best Argentina and Brazilian football players in the world
That statement is a misnomer, there will always be a group of players from that country that are considered the "best from that country" or do you mean compared to the world players?
For myself, I think the players are less important than the team these days, Messi has amazing talent, backed up by a team that can provide the passes he needs to illustrate it. Manchester United had no players this season that could be considered world class (in their play this season at least), yet made it to the Finals (and were crushed ...) and won the Premier league.
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On June 20 2011 20:59 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 20:57 Gigaudas wrote:On June 20 2011 20:55 ForTheDr3am wrote:On June 20 2011 20:51 hifriend wrote:On June 20 2011 20:47 ondik wrote:On June 20 2011 20:40 hifriend wrote:
That was some remarkably bad play by july, but spire vs blink is always a tough situation so..
At least I get to see bomber own him in the finals (seriously no chance for huk vs bomber).. dude..you already said you dislike HuK for being arrogant (what's interesting to me as you apparently like MC), why more hatred? It's annoying seeing him cruise through an easy group then bracket followed by july playing terribly. Superior protoss' like MC/Nani/White-Ra got tough opponents throughout the tournament and performed equally well without blindly going dt's half the time, yet now half the people in this thread are talking about huk as if he's suddenly the best protoss on the planet. Sigh. From what can you conclude that Naniwa and White-Ra are better than Huk? I mean, they both went 0-2 vs Moon while Huk won 2-0 against him. Huk has dropped a single game in this tournament, what should he have done better? Naniwa has performed better in foreign tournaments for a long time now. Apart from the game versus Moon he has been just as dominating as HuK at Dreamhack. Losing one game against a player with a style that you might not be accustomed tot while one guy beats that style doesn't necessarily make the second player better. It means Huk is having a better tournament than Naniwa. Simple as that. Doesn't mean Huk is more skilled than Naniwa or Naniwa is more skilled than Huk. I don't get why people have to take an isolated look at tournaments and only conclude skill from there.
Eh, the way Huk played against Moon juxtaposed against Naniwa playing against Moon tells us that Huk is much better against Moon's specific style than Naniwa.
However, the way he manhandled July as well suggests that his PvZ is indeed better than Naniwa.
In my opinion, I'd say he's just flat out better than Naniwa now based on the way I've seen both of them play in this tournament. You may think different and that's fine but there's no point questioning why people have their own opinions about player skill.
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On June 20 2011 21:00 Jampackedeon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 20:53 CaptainTwig wrote:On June 20 2011 20:48 ChickenLips wrote:On June 20 2011 20:46 Gheizen64 wrote:
This topic is so stupid to read.
Suddendly people think the nation where you play has to determine your nationality. It isn't like this in ANY sport, so please stfu. If people move to a nation with better infrastructures for training they don't change nationality. Messi and Ronaldo isn't spanish , they play in spanish teams. Same goes for Huk, he isn't Korean for the mother of god, he play in a korean team.
I couldn't care less about who win but the fanboysm in this thread is making me puke. Yeah and it isn't about nationality but practice environment / scene. People like iNcontroL and IdrA have been spouting nonsense like "Korea isn't the place to be" Bullshit.Yeah if you wanna feast on the scraps and be a B-class player, stay in the US or wherever, but if you wanna take the big tournies and be the best player you can be there is absolutely no alternative to going to Korea. Couldn't have put it better my friend. If us non-koreans ever establish anything close to the training/tournament system they have set-up. I might start taking iNcontrols, IdrA, demuslim etc comments seriously. This is just silly, InControl and the whole EG team have said that they really want to ramp up their practice schedule and will be creating their own team house to achieve a Korean-like regiment for the next MLG. Clearly they think that style of practicing has value. HOWEVER, what InControl and Idra were actually saying is that the TOURNAMENT scene of Korea isn't worth it because of the lack of tournaments and time commitment per payoff. The west has tons of cash up and way better opportunity for the team to do well and attract attention to them and their sponsors. Try to not misquote people when you have your axe to grind.
Lol with EG's average lvl they'll improve. Playing with players worst than him will not improve Idra's skill. And who's gonna be their coach? A korean or some random westerner ?
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EPT
