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On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to...  Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go.
MVP played for around two months and won GSL, sixjax kitty has played for less time than Grubby and is way better. The excuse that Grubby "just needs more time" is really getting old.
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Moon is flying to MLG so if he plays his match in US, it would be epic.
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On June 02 2011 15:30 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to... Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go. It's amazing too because that's not exactly how Moon dominated WC3 - his micro was amazing, but to see his macro-style play this game and the very nice multitasking army splits was very impressive. Personally I think with some time Moon will become a regular Code S Zerg. He's just too good. On the other hand if you look at Lyn you see play relatively closer to how he played WC3. For Grubby he likes to play slightly differently, using a lot of warp prism drops compared to other players. Feel like he's trying to be "too cute" at the moment, if he just gets down to the basics he might have a better shot.
Moon was a micro beast. But he invented a mass expand style with NE. Blizzard actually had to nerf it by increasing the build time for NE trees of life.
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On June 02 2011 15:28 Blueblister wrote:
Everything about the last game was great, with a possible exception for Kiwikaki completely abstaining from harassment.
I'm sorry, what units do you suggest he harass with when his entire army is dedicated to defending his main and two naturals from mutas? Moon played it great, there were very few things Kiwi could have done, and harass wasn't one of them.
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On June 02 2011 15:31 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to... Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go. MVP played for around two months and won GSL, sixjax kitty has played for less time than Grubby and is way better. The excuse that Grubby "just needs more time" is really getting old.
WC3 and BW are two completely different games. It takes way more time to adapt from a WC3 background than a BW background.
Thorzain has been playing SC2 since the beta and it took him more than half a year before he really started to excel. Same with Naniwa.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I guarantee you somewhere down the line Grubby will be a beast in the european scene.
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On June 02 2011 15:24 Encrypto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:13 anonymitylol wrote:On June 02 2011 15:08 bwin wrote:
I mean, if your entire business is structured around the internet, it is your responsibility to make sure the internet is stable. I understand shit happens but to say that nothing could have been done to prevent this just sounds like you're trying to pass off blame. If the internet goes out because of your ISP, there is NOTHING you can do. Don't get all uppity over them losing their internet, there was nothing they could've done about it. Lol. idiot. they can, like I said, post the VODs for free. problem solved.
Somebody give this man a membership application form for his local socialist club.
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On June 02 2011 15:29 Majynx wrote:
Watching those games played by Moon gives my high hopes that he will perform decently at MLG.
Personally I already said I thought Moon would come in at #2 in the group (depending on the open bracket member)... that doesn't change, and now I feel more confident.
6-2 in NASL is nothing to scoff at, his weak point seems to be ZvZ (losses to Morrow and Sheth), he gets Fenix next week so hopefully can seal down the automatic playoff spot!
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Moon's macro NE games were some of the only WC3 games I enjoyed watching, was rare to see that kind of style pulled off in amazing form.
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Edit: Double Post. See post on page 45.
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A bit off topic, but I just have to say that I absolutely love reading iNcontroL's responses to complaints. So well done, lmao. When I read "At some point we say "sorry" and "we want to make sure it doesn't happen again" but that also doesn't mean you get to claim that we shoulda hired God to make sure there was no way it could happen." all I could think was "SLAM DUNK".
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On June 02 2011 15:34 Mohdoo wrote:
A bit off topic, but I just have to say that I absolutely love reading iNcontroL's responses to complaints. So well done, lmao. When I read "At some point we say "sorry" and "we want to make sure it doesn't happen again" but that also doesn't mean you get to claim that we shoulda hired God to make sure there was no way it could happen." all I could think was "SLAM DUNK".
Would you bet money on stream issues like this not happening again - regardless of whether it's a ISP issue or something else? Tonight's stream issues, albeit outside InControl's control, was not the first time there's been stream issues. I'd say the odds are pretty high for it to happen again.
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On June 02 2011 15:31 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to... Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go. MVP played for around two months and won GSL, sixjax kitty has played for less time than Grubby and is way better. The excuse that Grubby "just needs more time" is really getting old.
MVP had been playing longer than two months before he won his GSL... GSL 2 (his competitive debut) started in early October last year and he won in late January. I'd imagine he was playing a little bit before that as well. The competition back then was not as good as it is now. Also, he lost to Zenio and choya, two people which most people overlook these days.
You can't really say Major/Terran/Kitty is better than Grubby... the EU scene is frankly a lot more competitive than the NA scene and Grubby has actually gotten third place in a major LAN (Copenhagen Games) over the likes of TLO and Morrow. Terran has only won small online tourneys.
Also, both Terran and MVP were high level Starcraft 1 players... the mechanics in SC1 translates easier into SC2 than from WC3 to SC2.
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Just a note, I love Moon, but Dimaga did this style (with some success, went 1-1 with it) already. Not executed at the same level as Moon, can't remember who Dimaga was playing but the Toss was definitely not as good as Kiwi (and Kiwi played pretty well in that game).
Can't wait to see - I think after this series people will be scared to play vs. Moon on the big maps. Tal'Darim comes up Game 3 next week so if Moon can grab one of the first two... I'll say Moon wins 2:1 over Fenix :D *crosses fingers*
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On June 02 2011 15:33 DoomsVille wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:31 setzer wrote:On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to... Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go. MVP played for around two months and won GSL, sixjax kitty has played for less time than Grubby and is way better. The excuse that Grubby "just needs more time" is really getting old. WC3 and BW are two completely different games. It takes way more time to adapt from a WC3 background than a BW background. Thorzain has been playing SC2 since the beta and it took him more than half a year before he really started to excel. Same with Naniwa. You're entitled to your opinion, but I guarantee you somewhere down the line Grubby will be a beast in the european scene.
Maybe if Grubby actually showed signs of improvement I would buy into the excuses that he simply needs more time, but in the NASL he has displayed worse and worse results. His best days were (imo) against Moon and Fenix and since then he has steadily gone downhill, even losing to Artosis who doesn't even play the game full time.
It is also not as though Grubby is the only WC3 player to recently switch. In fact, Happy and Violet both have WC3 backgrounds and made the transition far more seamlessly than Grubby has. Grubby simply hasn't delivered after all the hype was thrown on him.
MVP had been playing longer than two months before he won his GSL... GSL 2 (his competitive debut) started in early October last year and he won in late January. I'd imagine he was playing a little bit before that as well. The competition back then was not as good as it is now. Also, he lost to Zenio and choya, two people which most people overlook these days.
You are right, from the time he debuted to when he beat MKP it was almost exactly 3 months. Hard to know for sure exactly when he started playing SC2 since he retired from BW only a few months before his debut in GSL.
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I'm not saying I agree with everyone complaining but you have to take a second and look at it from other's perspectives. I know the one time I convinced a friend of mine to watch some NASL with me, the stream went down 10 minutes later for a good 40 minutes. Now, I realize the stream is free and that "it won't happen again", but it does. Whether it's JTV's fault or NASL's fault, the stream is interrupted quite often. How many weeks does it take to get it right?
And I'll bring it up again, why has no one commented on the lack of pregame announcement of walkovers. People waiting for a specific match shouldn't have to tune in multiple times through the night only to miss the 2 second announcement that the match they want to see has been canceled, especially since it ISN'T LIVE.
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On June 02 2011 15:31 NHY wrote:
Moon is flying to MLG so if he plays his match in US, it would be epic.
Moon is one of the weaker Koreans, he's good but plenty of foreign players are on the same level.
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On June 02 2011 15:31 iNcontroL wrote:You are right. We literally could have an internet crew out every single day checking the infrastructure over and over again. But what if it happened anyways? Was it our fault for not hiring a better crew? But what if it happened to the best crew money could buy? Were we supposed to have it hard wired to the actual TV/Monitor of each viewer?
At some point we say "sorry" and "we want to make sure it doesn't happen again" but that also doesn't mean you get to claim that we shoulda hired God to make sure there was no way it could happen.
I appreciate you being here to manage all the flak coming your way and I hope you don't take this the wrong way. With the huge disclaimer that my specialty is software not networking so I'm sure I'll be fumbling terminology.
But you can safeguard against this by cloning the machines used broadcast NASL at another location (my last company had data centers in LA, Chicago, Atlanta and somewhere overseas I forget). You don't even need to farm out another office, just someone with a smart phone can use remote access to fire up the broadcast remotely.
And when I saw another location I don't mean John Doe's laptop at Starbucks, I mean you have a backup machine running out of a managed data center or something.
But then again I don't know how you guys are set up exactly, I'm just going off the pre-recorded bit and assuming you aren't filming anything from the studio during the broadcast.
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On June 02 2011 15:31 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:08 bwin wrote:
I mean, if your entire business is structured around the internet, it is your responsibility to make sure the internet is stable. I understand shit happens but to say that nothing could have been done to prevent this just sounds like you're trying to pass off blame. You are right. We literally could have an internet crew out every single day checking the infrastructure over and over again. But what if it happened anyways? Was it our fault for not hiring a better crew? But what if it happened to the best crew money could buy? Were we supposed to have it hard wired to the actual TV/Monitor of each viewer? At some point we say "sorry" and "we want to make sure it doesn't happen again" but that also doesn't mean you get to claim that we shoulda hired God to make sure there was no way it could happen.
Well a basic rule of Customer Service is to under promise and over deliver. No matter what you do sometimes something goes wrong, that is true.
However it generally doesn't help at all to tell the client/consumer that and leave there, because that gives the impression you don't care about them.
You also never want to blame the customer or vent at them, that is very unprofessional. Fact is if you have competition that can cost you a lot of business. Especially if the problem or misunderstanding IS their fault.
If I was involved with this business as someone in position of authority with NASL I would not only apologize I would not make ANY excuses. Fact is it really is not worthwhile to explain while people are upset, they generally can't hear it.
I also would followup with something that SHOWED (ie an action not mere words) I felt remorse and wanted to offer a token to make up for the inconvenience the customers suffered.
With something like this I would probably restream the entire night either before or after the next couple of regular broadcasts. OR allow free access to the VODs for a limited time, that would also work as good advertising of the VODs, to help sell the subscription.
Could also offer some type of show match, or post the replays/VODs of this night only. Or something along those lines.
That wouldn't make everyone happy but would show you cared about what the customers felt. Might actually convince a lot of people that aren't sure about getting subscription.
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Just out of curiosty, who is actually sponsoring NASL?
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Moon is a god in wc3
Moon is a soon-to-be-a-god in sc2
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EPT
