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On June 02 2011 15:42 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:33 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:31 setzer wrote:On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to...  Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go. MVP played for around two months and won GSL, sixjax kitty has played for less time than Grubby and is way better. The excuse that Grubby "just needs more time" is really getting old. WC3 and BW are two completely different games. It takes way more time to adapt from a WC3 background than a BW background. Thorzain has been playing SC2 since the beta and it took him more than half a year before he really started to excel. Same with Naniwa. You're entitled to your opinion, but I guarantee you somewhere down the line Grubby will be a beast in the european scene. Maybe if Grubby actually showed signs of improvement I would buy into the excuses that he simply needs more time, but in the NASL he has displayed worse and worse results. His best days were (imo) against Moon and Fenix and since then he has steadily gone downhill, even losing to Artosis who doesn't even play the game full time. It is also not as though Grubby is the only WC3 player to recently switch. In fact, Happy and Violet both have WC3 backgrounds and made the transition far more seamlessly than Grubby has. Grubby simply hasn't delivered after all the hype was thrown on him. Show nested quote +MVP had been playing longer than two months before he won his GSL... GSL 2 (his competitive debut) started in early October last year and he won in late January. I'd imagine he was playing a little bit before that as well. The competition back then was not as good as it is now. Also, he lost to Zenio and choya, two people which most people overlook these days. You are right, from the time he debuted to when he beat MKP it was almost exactly 3 months. Hard to know for sure exactly when he started playing SC2 since he retired from BW only a few months before his debut in GSL.
violet has been playing since beta ( just a fact )
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Some of you need to adjust your attitude towards NASL.
They are constantly trying to improve, and the broadcast is leaps and bounds better than what was produced on week 1.
It's one thing to constructively criticize and hold them accountable... its completely another to say stupid shit like "ROFL NASL TRASH GARBAGE, WHO WOULD PAY 25 BUCKS FOR THIS".
Would you rather live in a world where it didn't exist completely? Instead of shitting on it, if you have a problem don't buy the VODs until you're satisfied with what they are putting out. But as long as its free you have no reason to complain.
And even if you have paid, 25 bucks is NOTHING for the amount of entertainment you're getting. A movie costs 12 bucks these days. This is literally 100 times the content for the cost of 2 movies...
Paying to watch SC2 is some of the best money spent. It's so cheap on a per hour basis... You're literally paying cents per hour to watch the NASL or GSL...
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On June 02 2011 15:58 HelloxD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:42 setzer wrote:On June 02 2011 15:33 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:31 setzer wrote:On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to... Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go. MVP played for around two months and won GSL, sixjax kitty has played for less time than Grubby and is way better. The excuse that Grubby "just needs more time" is really getting old. WC3 and BW are two completely different games. It takes way more time to adapt from a WC3 background than a BW background. Thorzain has been playing SC2 since the beta and it took him more than half a year before he really started to excel. Same with Naniwa. You're entitled to your opinion, but I guarantee you somewhere down the line Grubby will be a beast in the european scene. Maybe if Grubby actually showed signs of improvement I would buy into the excuses that he simply needs more time, but in the NASL he has displayed worse and worse results. His best days were (imo) against Moon and Fenix and since then he has steadily gone downhill, even losing to Artosis who doesn't even play the game full time. It is also not as though Grubby is the only WC3 player to recently switch. In fact, Happy and Violet both have WC3 backgrounds and made the transition far more seamlessly than Grubby has. Grubby simply hasn't delivered after all the hype was thrown on him. MVP had been playing longer than two months before he won his GSL... GSL 2 (his competitive debut) started in early October last year and he won in late January. I'd imagine he was playing a little bit before that as well. The competition back then was not as good as it is now. Also, he lost to Zenio and choya, two people which most people overlook these days. You are right, from the time he debuted to when he beat MKP it was almost exactly 3 months. Hard to know for sure exactly when he started playing SC2 since he retired from BW only a few months before his debut in GSL. violet has been playing since beta ( just a fact )
And I'm guessing happy has been playing for ages too. I mean he stopped playing WC3 competitively a very very long time ago... so it's either he was playing nothing or he was playing SC2.
And I don't see how Happy picking it up in a week validates your argument anyways. The majority of WC3 players take longer to acclimate than BW players. Grubby may just be taking longer than most.
You're basically shitting on us for saying he is going to get better and possibly be on the level that other top WC3 players are... which is ludicrous lol
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On June 02 2011 16:00 DoomsVille wrote:
Some of you need to adjust your attitude towards NASL.
They are constantly trying to improve, and the broadcast is leaps and bounds better than what was produced on week 1.
It's one thing to constructively criticize and hold them accountable... its completely another to say stupid shit like "ROFL NASL TRASH GARBAGE, WHO WOULD PAY 25 BUCKS FOR THIS".
Would you rather live in a world where it didn't exist completely? Instead of shitting on it, if you have a problem don't buy the VODs until you're satisfied with what they are putting out. But as long as its free you have no reason to complain.
And even if you have paid, 25 bucks is NOTHING for the amount of entertainment you're getting. A movie costs 12 bucks these days. This is literally 100 times the content for the cost of 2 movies...
Paying to watch SC2 is some of the best money spent. It's so cheap on a per hour basis... You're literally paying cents per hour to watch the NASL or GSL...
You need to understand the difference between a live report thread and the NASL feedback thread. The live report threads are for reactions to the play you see and for live reporting (as far as I know) it is not for constructive feedback to the tournament organizers.
Of course when there's problems with a stream that people are engaged in, some will express discontent and hyperboles will be used. This is a knee-jerk response to having your fun ruined.
I don't mean to come off as some pseudo-psychologist here, but this is how I see it.
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On June 02 2011 15:49 Dov wrote:
I also would followup with something that SHOWED (ie an action not mere words) I felt remorse and wanted to offer a token to make up for the inconvenience the customers suffered.
Starcraft Reparations!
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On June 02 2011 16:00 DoomsVille wrote:
Some of you need to adjust your attitude towards NASL.
They are constantly trying to improve, and the broadcast is leaps and bounds better than what was produced on week 1.
It's one thing to constructively criticize and hold them accountable... its completely another to say stupid shit like "ROFL NASL TRASH GARBAGE, WHO WOULD PAY 25 BUCKS FOR THIS".
Would you rather live in a world where it didn't exist completely? Instead of shitting on it, if you have a problem don't buy the VODs until you're satisfied with what they are putting out. But as long as its free you have no reason to complain.
And even if you have paid, 25 bucks is NOTHING for the amount of entertainment you're getting. A movie costs 12 bucks these days. This is literally 100 times the content for the cost of 2 movies...
Paying to watch SC2 is some of the best money spent. It's so cheap on a per hour basis... You're literally paying cents per hour to watch the NASL or GSL...
It's not just a matter of the number of hours. It's about the quality of the product as well. You can spend hours watching Husky/HD/other caster videos on Youtube and not have to pay anything.
Yes, I guess you can say that the premium is because the matches are actually high level competitive matches, but if the NASL wants to sell their product, they have to make sure that the quality is up to par and frankly, the VOD quality is terrible and while it's not unwatchable I can't help feeling like it's not worth the 25 bucks I paid for it.
And they have to be open to criticism and learn how to better satisfy their customers. As consumers we all have rights to complain.
The only reason I still watch the NASL (actually I only tune in every once in awhile and hardly watch the VODs) is because I'd already bought the season ticket and I'm giving them till the offline finals and because it's a pretty nice competition format. But everything else about it: casters, production, quality, customer service, convenience has been severely lacking.
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On June 02 2011 15:52 baoluvboa wrote:
Just out of curiosty, who is actually sponsoring NASL?
It's the biggest secret in esport.
Other questions would be: Who is going to guarantee the check for the winners of the tournament? Is it Gretorp? Is it Incontrol? Or is somebody gonna take all the subscription fee and run away with it? Or is someone using the subscription fee and invest in stock while the tournament is going on? What happens if the stock price drop and they don't have enough money for payout?
There's a ton of questions about the NASL. Maybe it's run by some aliens.
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results for artosis - rainbow & moon - kiwikaki plz guys ?
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On June 02 2011 16:21 LeLfe wrote:
results for artosis - rainbow & moon - kiwikaki plz guys ?
No results yet.
NASL went down due to some problems - like always.
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On June 02 2011 16:21 LeLfe wrote:
results for artosis - rainbow & moon - kiwikaki plz guys ?
Moon kiwi 2-0
Artosis rainbow not played, i dont know if it was a WO or not.
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On June 02 2011 16:22 DirtYLOu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 16:21 LeLfe wrote:
results for artosis - rainbow & moon - kiwikaki plz guys ? No results yet. NASL went down due to some problems - like always.
Actually the stream went back up. Rainbow won a w/o over Artosis and Moon 2-0ed Kiwikaki
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On June 02 2011 16:17 TDN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:52 baoluvboa wrote:
Just out of curiosty, who is actually sponsoring NASL? It's the biggest secret in esport. Other questions would be: Who is going to guarantee the check for the winners of the tournament? Is it Gretorp? Is it Incontrol? Or is somebody gonna take all the subscription fee and run away with it? Or is someone using the subscription fee and invest in stock while the tournament is going on? What happens if the stock price drop and they don't have enough money for payout? There's a ton of questions about the NASL. Maybe it's run by some aliens.
I thought it was made clear pretty early on that NASL was the brainchild of Gosucoaching's Russell and he managed to convince a (wealthy?) friend of his that it SC2 was worth investing in. Isn't the whole tournament privately funded by them? Maybe they took out a loan or something.
As for the prize money, It'll be fraud and probably a host of other criminal offense to not pay up so unless the NASL founders want to live on the lam for the rest of their lives, I'm sure they'll cough up.
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Rainbow got a WO as Artosis is still having trouble with internet at his new apt.
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On June 02 2011 16:14 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 16:00 DoomsVille wrote:
Some of you need to adjust your attitude towards NASL.
They are constantly trying to improve, and the broadcast is leaps and bounds better than what was produced on week 1.
It's one thing to constructively criticize and hold them accountable... its completely another to say stupid shit like "ROFL NASL TRASH GARBAGE, WHO WOULD PAY 25 BUCKS FOR THIS".
Would you rather live in a world where it didn't exist completely? Instead of shitting on it, if you have a problem don't buy the VODs until you're satisfied with what they are putting out. But as long as its free you have no reason to complain.
And even if you have paid, 25 bucks is NOTHING for the amount of entertainment you're getting. A movie costs 12 bucks these days. This is literally 100 times the content for the cost of 2 movies...
Paying to watch SC2 is some of the best money spent. It's so cheap on a per hour basis... You're literally paying cents per hour to watch the NASL or GSL... It's not just a matter of the number of hours. It's about the quality of the product as well. You can spend hours watching Husky/HD/other caster videos on Youtube and not have to pay anything. Yes, I guess you can say that the premium is because the matches are actually high level competitive matches, but if the NASL wants to sell their product, they have to make sure that the quality is up to par and frankly, the VOD quality is terrible and while it's not unwatchable I can't help feeling like it's not worth the 25 bucks I paid for it. And they have to be open to criticism and learn how to better satisfy their customers. As consumers we all have rights to complain. The only reason I still watch the NASL (actually I only tune in every once in awhile and hardly watch the VODs) is because I'd already bought the season ticket and I'm giving them till the offline finals and because it's a pretty nice competition format. But everything else about it: casters, production, quality, customer service, convenience has been severely lacking.
seriously ? are you comparing a tournament which require much more organizing to some castors whom "only take" replays off players or tournys ?
but yea i agree with you about the quality
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On June 02 2011 15:31 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to... Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go. MVP played for around two months and won GSL, sixjax kitty has played for less time than Grubby and is way better. The excuse that Grubby "just needs more time" is really getting old.
how about grubby 3-0'd and 2-0'd morrow lately ?
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On June 02 2011 15:32 GreatHate wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:28 Blueblister wrote:
Everything about the last game was great, with a possible exception for Kiwikaki completely abstaining from harassment. I'm sorry, what units do you suggest he harass with when his entire army is dedicated to defending his main and two naturals from mutas? Moon played it great, there were very few things Kiwi could have done, and harass wasn't one of them.
First and foremost he should have scouted for extra bases far from the zerg main base so he is actually aware of them. This can be done with a probe to be able to be able to warp in a proxy pylon would need be.
Now, against a mutalisk zerg you cannot misplace your entire army to kill a far-away hatch. What you can do is warp in a couple of zealot to harass the drones and possibly take out the hatch, you will at the very least give yourself some breathing room by distracting the enemy force. Harass is normally the correct counter to over extension.
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United States4796 Posts
On June 02 2011 16:27 MrProb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:31 setzer wrote:On June 02 2011 15:27 DoomsVille wrote:On June 02 2011 15:24 SpiritAshura wrote:On June 02 2011 15:23 Psyclon wrote:
Who knew Moon was capable of such monstrous play! anyone who saw him dominate wc3, perhaps this is moons coming out party for sc2? now grubby needs to... Give it time. All the WC3 players are finally starting to come around... Grubby just came into the SC2 scene much later than any of the others so he has a ways to go. MVP played for around two months and won GSL, sixjax kitty has played for less time than Grubby and is way better. The excuse that Grubby "just needs more time" is really getting old. how about grubby 3-0'd and 2-0'd morrow lately ?
And also ganked TLO a bit back?
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On June 02 2011 16:00 DoomsVille wrote:
Some of you need to adjust your attitude towards NASL.
They are constantly trying to improve, and the broadcast is leaps and bounds better than what was produced on week 1.
It's one thing to constructively criticize and hold them accountable... its completely another to say stupid shit like "ROFL NASL TRASH GARBAGE, WHO WOULD PAY 25 BUCKS FOR THIS".
Would you rather live in a world where it didn't exist completely? Instead of shitting on it, if you have a problem don't buy the VODs until you're satisfied with what they are putting out. But as long as its free you have no reason to complain.
And even if you have paid, 25 bucks is NOTHING for the amount of entertainment you're getting. A movie costs 12 bucks these days. This is literally 100 times the content for the cost of 2 movies...
Paying to watch SC2 is some of the best money spent. It's so cheap on a per hour basis... You're literally paying cents per hour to watch the NASL or GSL...
While I agree that the critizicism needs to be constructive I do not think its exactly as simple as you try to make it. If I count the hours of content I have actually gotten from NASL yup, 25$ has definetly been worth it however, the frustration and dissapointement every time the stream fails, they spoil a game(wich is even worse) etc cannot be overlooked. That is time spent, maybe sleep missed or w/e.
And the common comment that they are trying to improve etc. When they in week 7 still cant edit the show together without spoiling games Its just embarrasing. When they cant seem to realize that they should announce W/Os at the start of the show instead of before that particular game is idiotic. The production simply seems amateurish and they really need to start showing some constistent quality for me to even consider paying them more money.
And one more thing. 25$ is cheap compared to most other sorts of entertainement but that is not really that important. Few people choose between watching a movie and a SC2 game, what we do is rather choose between different streams to get our SC2 fix from. Considering most streams are free even at HQ 25$ is actually pretty much.
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On June 02 2011 16:23 halvorg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 16:21 LeLfe wrote:
results for artosis - rainbow & moon - kiwikaki plz guys ? Moon kiwi 2-0 Artosis rainbow not played, i dont know if it was a WO or not.
thank you 
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On June 02 2011 15:49 Dov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:31 iNcontroL wrote:On June 02 2011 15:08 bwin wrote:
I mean, if your entire business is structured around the internet, it is your responsibility to make sure the internet is stable. I understand shit happens but to say that nothing could have been done to prevent this just sounds like you're trying to pass off blame. You are right. We literally could have an internet crew out every single day checking the infrastructure over and over again. But what if it happened anyways? Was it our fault for not hiring a better crew? But what if it happened to the best crew money could buy? Were we supposed to have it hard wired to the actual TV/Monitor of each viewer? At some point we say "sorry" and "we want to make sure it doesn't happen again" but that also doesn't mean you get to claim that we shoulda hired God to make sure there was no way it could happen. Well a basic rule of Customer Service is to under promise and over deliver. No matter what you do sometimes something goes wrong, that is true. However it generally doesn't help at all to tell the client/consumer that and leave there, because that gives the impression you don't care about them. You also never want to blame the customer or vent at them, that is very unprofessional. Fact is if you have competition that can cost you a lot of business. Especially if the problem or misunderstanding IS their fault. If I was involved with this business as someone in position of authority with NASL I would not only apologize I would not make ANY excuses. Fact is it really is not worthwhile to explain while people are upset, they generally can't hear it. I also would followup with something that SHOWED (ie an action not mere words) I felt remorse and wanted to offer a token to make up for the inconvenience the customers suffered. With something like this I would probably restream the entire night either before or after the next couple of regular broadcasts. OR allow free access to the VODs for a limited time, that would also work as good advertising of the VODs, to help sell the subscription. Could also offer some type of show match, or post the replays/VODs of this night only. Or something along those lines. That wouldn't make everyone happy but would show you cared about what the customers felt. Might actually convince a lot of people that aren't sure about getting subscription.
100% this. This is how you do PR. Not Incontrol coming here and crapping on his customers for complaining because we were made to wait a long time for a match that was a W/O.
Adding on to the Free icecream day analogy, ppl took time out of their lives to be there at the icecream shop, ie in front of their monitors, only to be told no icecream today. Any normal icecream shop would have given those who were there vouchers as tokens of their sincerest apologies, ie in this case free access to the VoDs of the day.
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EPT
