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Finland2292 Posts
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Bisutopia19368 Posts
On December 11 2011 16:02 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 15:11 StarStruck wrote:On December 11 2011 15:09 darkness wrote:On December 11 2011 15:08 slicknav wrote:On December 11 2011 15:05 darkness wrote:
Wait for BW pro gamers to fully switch to SC2 and adapt, then throw the Bonjwa stuff. We have had Nada, Boxer, and July all show mild success in SC2, but none have ever won anything major. MVP on the other hand, an ex-BW player, has been dominating for nearly a year. I can see why people would throw around the B word when describing him. I meant S class pro gamers such as Bisu, Stork, JaeDong, Flash, Fantasy, etc. errr Fantasy isn't S class. He's very good though ;/ there is no definition of what constitutes a player being S class however, if bisu is on the s class list then i dont see why fantasy cant be since fantasy has been better than bisu for at least a year, evidenced by winning a OSL and placing higher in OSL's than bisu
Ah, people who no so little. Bisu is currently S class because he is the best player in Proleague with a record number of wins last season. Fantasy has not been better then Bisu for the last year. His results for skt have been quite poor and very disappointing. And even with decent OSL results he's only won one in the recent tournaments. In no way has he been better then Bisu, Bisu has had success against all three races in the past year while Fantasy proves that his vZ is nothing but lawlz. Do your homework before talking guyz.
And there is a definition that constitutes S class. Bisu and Fantasy are both part of that. Add Hydra to the list too and expect Zero if he keeps up his skill.
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So... i read the WCG grandfinal was over in around 30 minutes (aside from MVP toying in game 2)? glad i didn't get up to watch it. bo3 was not enough to motivate me doing it and also i was 90% sure MVP will win anyway. happy he did, he's clearly the best player in the world right now!
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On December 11 2011 16:15 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 16:08 ItsMeDomLee wrote:On December 11 2011 15:09 R!! wrote:On December 11 2011 15:06 ItsMeDomLee wrote:On December 11 2011 15:04 R!! wrote:On December 11 2011 15:04 ItsMeDomLee wrote:On December 11 2011 15:02 R!! wrote:On December 11 2011 15:02 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 11 2011 15:01 Jehct wrote:
Anyone else think the finals being BO3 is kinda ridiculous? Doesn't make much sense when you consider the prize pool =/ Yeah, a finals should never be lower than Bo5, and Bo7 is the preferred for anything over 10k prize pool IMO Xigua would've lost 0-4 anyways, better save himself and his country from the embarassment. Why would his country be embarrassed? That's the way it works when china is involved, ask them yourself. Well I'm glad we have our TL expert on foreign affairs educating everyone. I never claimed to be an expert, I simply have seen way too many times in both the wc3 and the DotA scene how touchy the chinese can get when their representatives lose in international events. That's different. Chinese players are the Koreans of Dota. I don't know about WC3. Getting second place at wcg is a big deal. Hard to say whether China or Korea is better at War3, but WCG War3 title is supposed to be China's for the most part. The first Korean to take a WCG took it last year (Remind), and Lyn took it again this year, so they're going to want revenge. (Yay! Means they'll probably hold another War3 tournament next two years in China during WCG.) 
China's obviously better at WC3. Both Moon and Lyn are training exclusively on VS client and Lyn takes part in virtually every Chinese league there is.
It's like Jinro hitting top 4 GSL twice and then it became debatable whether Sweden or Korea is better at SC2 (not that it actually happened). There's no question about it.
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Why so many people freak out when you say someone is bonjwa? Are we in Harry Potter universe (you know who) or what? Let people say what they want. People have right to call bonjwa who ever they want even if it is absurd. It is not insulting or something.
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ZvT just feels weird for me at the moment (at the highest levels). In SC2, as soon as a Terran reaches 10+ ghosts I almost want to stop watching the game as I know they're going to win with pretty much 100% certainty. The only game that I've seen which contests this view is that one Nerchio vs. Select game (forget which tourney, sorry). Mass ghosts (T1.5) absolutely slaughter any number of ultras/brood lords (T3)...just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, MVP played like a monster (even his mouth was open...haha). I know XiGua's lack of multitasking + spines/spores in his bases hindered him. I just can't see him winning that last game even with better multitasking and those defensive structures.
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On December 11 2011 17:29 mierin wrote:
ZvT just feels weird for me at the moment (at the highest levels). In SC2, as soon as a Terran reaches 10+ ghosts I almost want to stop watching the game as I know they're going to win with pretty much 100% certainty. The only game that I've seen which contests this view is that one Nerchio vs. Select game (forget which tourney, sorry). Mass ghosts (T1.5) absolutely slaughter any number of ultras/brood lords (T3)...just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, MVP played like a monster (even his mouth was open...haha). I know XiGua's lack of multitasking + spines/spores in his bases hindered him. I just can't see him winning that last game even with better multitasking and those defensive structures.
Ghosts are T2
Marauders are T1.5
If you manage to catch ghosts with a fungal, they can lose
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On December 11 2011 17:30 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 17:29 mierin wrote:
ZvT just feels weird for me at the moment (at the highest levels). In SC2, as soon as a Terran reaches 10+ ghosts I almost want to stop watching the game as I know they're going to win with pretty much 100% certainty. The only game that I've seen which contests this view is that one Nerchio vs. Select game (forget which tourney, sorry). Mass ghosts (T1.5) absolutely slaughter any number of ultras/brood lords (T3)...just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, MVP played like a monster (even his mouth was open...haha). I know XiGua's lack of multitasking + spines/spores in his bases hindered him. I just can't see him winning that last game even with better multitasking and those defensive structures. Ghosts are T2 Marauders are T1.5 If you manage to catch ghosts with a fungal, they can lose
Do you need factories for ghosts? I play Zerg exclusively so that might have been an ignorant statement on my part haha.
Anyhow, a high caliber Terran player will EMP/snipe infestors before the fungal happens because 1) cloak and 2) superior range. Like I said, I'm a Z so I'm raging a little b/c of that.
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Grats to MVP yet another price 
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Really wanted more games for the final...
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On December 11 2011 15:12 sickthink wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 15:05 PartyBiscuit wrote:On December 11 2011 14:59 aviator116 wrote:On December 11 2011 14:58 darkest44 wrote:
Xigua really didn't play "brilliant game" lets be honest... what did he do at all that was brilliant? All game he killed 1 CC and like 1 drop ship lol. MVP was toying with him. YOU play against MVP and tell me how it goes That's irrelevant. Anyone who ever argues with the "you couldn't do better" idea is always wrong on so many levels. Just because you aren't able to sing for instance, does that mean you can't critique music that sounds terrible? Xigua played horribly (in both games) and was completely outplayed. MVP had no reason (unless the minimap was too blurry for me) to pull back from his triple bunker/triple seige tank push, he had the game won at the point. There were only ~9 lings across the side of the map and he already had 1 tank and a bunker at his expansion to defend. The amount of banes/lings Xigua used to try his 2nd attempt at busting the push would have died if MVP left his units at the Zerg natural. Afterwards, MVP was really just toying with Xigua who couldn't handle his drop harass at all - why else would you bother to make 3 nukes (which requires that many academies) and 25+ cloaked ghosts? Fun game to watch but Xigua was nowhere close. I agree. He should've/could've ended it, but decided to make a spectacle of poor Xingua in front of a packed Korean crowd. To me, it's kind of BM to pull back and wait to rape someone like he did, embarrassing him like a little child who knew no better. He was clearly not playing on MVP's level, and MVP should've had the courtesy to win gracefully like the champ he is.
I have to disagree. To the neutral crowd Mvp smashing Xigua 2-0 within 10 minutes would have been even more humiliating. I think by pulling back he not only let Xigua save face a bit, but also gave the crowd more of a spectacle.
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On December 11 2011 17:38 nofacej wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 15:12 sickthink wrote:On December 11 2011 15:05 PartyBiscuit wrote:On December 11 2011 14:59 aviator116 wrote:On December 11 2011 14:58 darkest44 wrote:
Xigua really didn't play "brilliant game" lets be honest... what did he do at all that was brilliant? All game he killed 1 CC and like 1 drop ship lol. MVP was toying with him. YOU play against MVP and tell me how it goes That's irrelevant. Anyone who ever argues with the "you couldn't do better" idea is always wrong on so many levels. Just because you aren't able to sing for instance, does that mean you can't critique music that sounds terrible? Xigua played horribly (in both games) and was completely outplayed. MVP had no reason (unless the minimap was too blurry for me) to pull back from his triple bunker/triple seige tank push, he had the game won at the point. There were only ~9 lings across the side of the map and he already had 1 tank and a bunker at his expansion to defend. The amount of banes/lings Xigua used to try his 2nd attempt at busting the push would have died if MVP left his units at the Zerg natural. Afterwards, MVP was really just toying with Xigua who couldn't handle his drop harass at all - why else would you bother to make 3 nukes (which requires that many academies) and 25+ cloaked ghosts? Fun game to watch but Xigua was nowhere close. I agree. He should've/could've ended it, but decided to make a spectacle of poor Xingua in front of a packed Korean crowd. To me, it's kind of BM to pull back and wait to rape someone like he did, embarrassing him like a little child who knew no better. He was clearly not playing on MVP's level, and MVP should've had the courtesy to win gracefully like the champ he is. I have to disagree. To the neutral crowd Mvp smashing Xigua 2-0 within 10 minutes would have been even more humiliating. I think by pulling back he not only let Xigua save face a bit, but also gave the crowd more of a spectacle.
yeah killing xigua outright would of been more embarassing... at least he got to kill a planetary stopped some drops and other stuff to get the chinese crowd cheering...
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On December 11 2011 17:32 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 17:30 Zzoram wrote:On December 11 2011 17:29 mierin wrote:
ZvT just feels weird for me at the moment (at the highest levels). In SC2, as soon as a Terran reaches 10+ ghosts I almost want to stop watching the game as I know they're going to win with pretty much 100% certainty. The only game that I've seen which contests this view is that one Nerchio vs. Select game (forget which tourney, sorry). Mass ghosts (T1.5) absolutely slaughter any number of ultras/brood lords (T3)...just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, MVP played like a monster (even his mouth was open...haha). I know XiGua's lack of multitasking + spines/spores in his bases hindered him. I just can't see him winning that last game even with better multitasking and those defensive structures. Ghosts are T2 Marauders are T1.5 If you manage to catch ghosts with a fungal, they can lose Do you need factories for ghosts? I play Zerg exclusively so that might have been an ignorant statement on my part haha. Anyhow, a high caliber Terran player will EMP/snipe infestors before the fungal happens because 1) cloak and 2) superior range. Like I said, I'm a Z so I'm raging a little b/c of that.
Basically here's the cost of a Cloaked Ghost with Nuke for any non-Terrans wondering:
150 Minerals for the Barracks
50 Minerals + 25 Gas for the Tech Lab
150 Minerals + 50 Gas for the Ghost Academy
200 Minerals + 100 Gas for the Ghost
150 Minerals + 150 Gas for Personal Cloaking
100 Minerals + 100 Gas per Nuke
So all up you're looking at 800 Minerals and 425 Gas for the first Cloaked Ghost with a Nuke.
If you want multiple Nukes at a time you need another 150/50 for a second Ghost Academy and a further 100/100 for the second Nuke.
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On December 11 2011 17:30 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 17:29 mierin wrote:
ZvT just feels weird for me at the moment (at the highest levels). In SC2, as soon as a Terran reaches 10+ ghosts I almost want to stop watching the game as I know they're going to win with pretty much 100% certainty. The only game that I've seen which contests this view is that one Nerchio vs. Select game (forget which tourney, sorry). Mass ghosts (T1.5) absolutely slaughter any number of ultras/brood lords (T3)...just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, MVP played like a monster (even his mouth was open...haha). I know XiGua's lack of multitasking + spines/spores in his bases hindered him. I just can't see him winning that last game even with better multitasking and those defensive structures. Ghosts are T2 Marauders are T1.5 If you manage to catch ghosts with a fungal, they can lose
... EMP ? Better range ? Cloak ? So basicly you have to hope your enemy makes a mistake.
Lings are they only good counter because of the shear mass.
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I missed the SC2 finals. Do you guys know where I can view the VOD. GomTV doesn't seem to work for me 
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why was it bo3 in a final??? -.-
WCG seriously..
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On December 11 2011 18:08 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 17:30 Zzoram wrote:On December 11 2011 17:29 mierin wrote:
ZvT just feels weird for me at the moment (at the highest levels). In SC2, as soon as a Terran reaches 10+ ghosts I almost want to stop watching the game as I know they're going to win with pretty much 100% certainty. The only game that I've seen which contests this view is that one Nerchio vs. Select game (forget which tourney, sorry). Mass ghosts (T1.5) absolutely slaughter any number of ultras/brood lords (T3)...just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, MVP played like a monster (even his mouth was open...haha). I know XiGua's lack of multitasking + spines/spores in his bases hindered him. I just can't see him winning that last game even with better multitasking and those defensive structures. Ghosts are T2 Marauders are T1.5 If you manage to catch ghosts with a fungal, they can lose ... EMP ? Better range ? Cloak ? So basicly you have to hope your enemy makes a mistake. Lings are they only good counter because of the shear mass.
That's why you don't let the game get into that position in the first place....
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congrats to MVP and to Kas for a strong showing
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On December 11 2011 18:39 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 18:08 Lysanias wrote:On December 11 2011 17:30 Zzoram wrote:On December 11 2011 17:29 mierin wrote:
ZvT just feels weird for me at the moment (at the highest levels). In SC2, as soon as a Terran reaches 10+ ghosts I almost want to stop watching the game as I know they're going to win with pretty much 100% certainty. The only game that I've seen which contests this view is that one Nerchio vs. Select game (forget which tourney, sorry). Mass ghosts (T1.5) absolutely slaughter any number of ultras/brood lords (T3)...just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, MVP played like a monster (even his mouth was open...haha). I know XiGua's lack of multitasking + spines/spores in his bases hindered him. I just can't see him winning that last game even with better multitasking and those defensive structures. Ghosts are T2 Marauders are T1.5 If you manage to catch ghosts with a fungal, they can lose ... EMP ? Better range ? Cloak ? So basicly you have to hope your enemy makes a mistake. Lings are they only good counter because of the shear mass. That's why you don't let the game get into that position in the first place....
Uh, remember MVP vs Nestea at Blizzcon? Ignoring how Nestea basically failed in the end of the game, what should he have done to NOT let MVP split map and get ghosts? Engage into turret/bunker/split tanks/marines/PF lines? Nydus (lol?) What are you even going to kill with drops? SCVs? Yeah, that lets them get even more max army.
I still don't know why EMP, fungal, and feedback aren't all the same range....
That all being said, MVP is still a freaking monster right now. He's getting close to SC2 Bonjwa status.
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On December 11 2011 18:39 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 18:08 Lysanias wrote:On December 11 2011 17:30 Zzoram wrote:On December 11 2011 17:29 mierin wrote:
ZvT just feels weird for me at the moment (at the highest levels). In SC2, as soon as a Terran reaches 10+ ghosts I almost want to stop watching the game as I know they're going to win with pretty much 100% certainty. The only game that I've seen which contests this view is that one Nerchio vs. Select game (forget which tourney, sorry). Mass ghosts (T1.5) absolutely slaughter any number of ultras/brood lords (T3)...just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That being said, MVP played like a monster (even his mouth was open...haha). I know XiGua's lack of multitasking + spines/spores in his bases hindered him. I just can't see him winning that last game even with better multitasking and those defensive structures. Ghosts are T2 Marauders are T1.5 If you manage to catch ghosts with a fungal, they can lose ... EMP ? Better range ? Cloak ? So basicly you have to hope your enemy makes a mistake. Lings are they only good counter because of the shear mass. That's why you don't let the game get into that position in the first place....
Yeah sure you can often times end the game before the very late game but that's a very flawed matchup if the zerg always goes in to it thinking: "Well, can't win late game vs ghosts so I'd better do some all in mid game"
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EPT
