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WCG 2011 Grand Finals - Page 371

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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JesusOurSaviour
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
December 10 2011 08:32 GMT
#7401
On December 10 2011 17:29 Lavi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:22 JesusOurSaviour wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:43 Tachion wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:42 windsupernova wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:40 Lavi wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:38 andaylin wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:38 jojo311 wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:33 andaylin wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:32 StarVe wrote:
On December 10 2011 06:44 Mikelius wrote:
[quote]

I'm sorry, what? MVP losing to Bling?!


Sup Son.

MVP is quite bad vs Protoss, though Bling is pretty decent.



what? you must be kidding, man. MVP is quite good vs T,P,Z all

he is significantly weaker vs Protoss. I'm sorry if you can't see this

Edit: such an early 1-1-1 push by MVP, dunno how i feel about this.


he's weaker because the match up... not because he is bad in tvp


Nah its definitively that MVP is worse against P.It has always been his weakness, just like Nestea is worse against T

MVP never really adapted to the 2 forge style. His upgrades are always so late in TvP that the longer the game goes on the worse and worse it gets for him.
No one has.figured it out. T v P is like the hardest matchup for all high-level Korean Terrans. Obviously maps and balance changes have and new BO/strats for Protoss have significantly changed the T v P landscape.

Terran players probably need to work harder to find counters to recent protoss improvements. Jiakji's gone for thor/banshee stuff. Others have used hellions to wreck unscrupulous protosses (Some Korean T versus Huk recently?). But it seems the most viable counters so far have either been All-in (thor banshee stuff) or early game abuse (hellions v hapless stalkers).

T v P is tough man. I guess it's time for Terrans to feel the pain that Tosses felt for aaaages lol


all those jjakji stuff, hellions wrecking huk, etc are bandaid all in or strong timing pushes just like 1-1-1 is... very gimmicky.
theres nothing to fig out since macro late game has been the same in tvp in forever, only the gimmicks change. macro terran vs macro toss - toss has advantage of stronger ball and upgrade, faster reinforcement due to warpgate so terran get one chance at max army vs max army to win outright with enough left over to kill the next remaxed army warp in, whereas toss has to win once then camp production, def in toss favour atm esp since terran form of aoe got nerfed hard (emp)
You're one of the few that actually support that T v P is tough. Well done - agree with everything you've said. All these recently developed builds are not only gimmicky, but at times all in. Tough times for T v P. Hey - we're sick of GomTvT finals right? Let's hope to get some PvP finals to even it up. Then Gom will have a massive headache lol
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
December 10 2011 08:32 GMT
#7402
On December 10 2011 13:45 darkness wrote:
No respect for MVP from now. He used to say 1/1/1 was wrong, imba, whatever...
If it's just for money/winning, then don't make stupid statements you're going to contradict soon.

that's ok, he has plenty more fans than you.
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4944 Posts
December 10 2011 08:33 GMT
#7403
On December 10 2011 17:32 xtfftc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:22 Zeroxk wrote:
What's Rotterdam doing in Korea? Commentating WC3? Is he going to apply for Code A casting?

Yes, he's there for WC3. I highly doubt it he'll be leaving ESL for Gom.


I know he's entrenched in ESL, but just imagine Rotterdam instead of Moletrap...*drools*
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
mpanikos
Profile Joined October 2010
Greece20 Posts
December 10 2011 08:36 GMT
#7404
when will the finals for sc2 will start for EU??
Zeroxk
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway1244 Posts
December 10 2011 08:37 GMT
#7405
On December 10 2011 17:32 xtfftc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:22 Zeroxk wrote:
What's Rotterdam doing in Korea? Commentating WC3? Is he going to apply for Code A casting?

Yes, he's there for WC3. I highly doubt it he'll be leaving ESL for Gom.


Thanks!
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
December 10 2011 08:37 GMT
#7406
On December 10 2011 17:33 mierin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:32 xtfftc wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:22 Zeroxk wrote:
What's Rotterdam doing in Korea? Commentating WC3? Is he going to apply for Code A casting?

Yes, he's there for WC3. I highly doubt it he'll be leaving ESL for Gom.


I know he's entrenched in ESL, but just imagine Rotterdam instead of Moletrap...*drools*

He surely has more game knowledge than anyone at gom.tv. Yes anyone.
Off-season = best season
ryland05
Profile Joined August 2010
United States15 Posts
December 10 2011 08:38 GMT
#7407
I missed what happened today, I can't seem to find results.
JohnMatrix
Profile Joined April 2011
France1359 Posts
December 10 2011 08:38 GMT
#7408
titan 2-0 supernova lol ?
Suohhen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States59 Posts
December 10 2011 08:39 GMT
#7409
On December 10 2011 17:37 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:33 mierin wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:32 xtfftc wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:22 Zeroxk wrote:
What's Rotterdam doing in Korea? Commentating WC3? Is he going to apply for Code A casting?

Yes, he's there for WC3. I highly doubt it he'll be leaving ESL for Gom.


I know he's entrenched in ESL, but just imagine Rotterdam instead of Moletrap...*drools*

He surely has more game knowledge than anyone at gom.tv. Yes anyone.


Pfft game knowledge, who cares, Rotti is sexy and entertaining. Everyone tweet Sundance now "Rotterdam MLG Providence." Er a little late for that, ah well.
Lavi
Profile Joined November 2011
Bangladesh793 Posts
December 10 2011 08:40 GMT
#7410
On December 10 2011 17:32 JesusOurSaviour wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:29 Lavi wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:22 JesusOurSaviour wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:43 Tachion wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:42 windsupernova wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:40 Lavi wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:38 andaylin wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:38 jojo311 wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:33 andaylin wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:32 StarVe wrote:
[quote]

Sup Son.

MVP is quite bad vs Protoss, though Bling is pretty decent.



what? you must be kidding, man. MVP is quite good vs T,P,Z all

he is significantly weaker vs Protoss. I'm sorry if you can't see this

Edit: such an early 1-1-1 push by MVP, dunno how i feel about this.


he's weaker because the match up... not because he is bad in tvp


Nah its definitively that MVP is worse against P.It has always been his weakness, just like Nestea is worse against T

MVP never really adapted to the 2 forge style. His upgrades are always so late in TvP that the longer the game goes on the worse and worse it gets for him.
No one has.figured it out. T v P is like the hardest matchup for all high-level Korean Terrans. Obviously maps and balance changes have and new BO/strats for Protoss have significantly changed the T v P landscape.

Terran players probably need to work harder to find counters to recent protoss improvements. Jiakji's gone for thor/banshee stuff. Others have used hellions to wreck unscrupulous protosses (Some Korean T versus Huk recently?). But it seems the most viable counters so far have either been All-in (thor banshee stuff) or early game abuse (hellions v hapless stalkers).

T v P is tough man. I guess it's time for Terrans to feel the pain that Tosses felt for aaaages lol


all those jjakji stuff, hellions wrecking huk, etc are bandaid all in or strong timing pushes just like 1-1-1 is... very gimmicky.
theres nothing to fig out since macro late game has been the same in tvp in forever, only the gimmicks change. macro terran vs macro toss - toss has advantage of stronger ball and upgrade, faster reinforcement due to warpgate so terran get one chance at max army vs max army to win outright with enough left over to kill the next remaxed army warp in, whereas toss has to win once then camp production, def in toss favour atm esp since terran form of aoe got nerfed hard (emp)
You're one of the few that actually support that T v P is tough. Well done - agree with everything you've said. All these recently developed builds are not only gimmicky, but at times all in. Tough times for T v P. Hey - we're sick of GomTvT finals right? Let's hope to get some PvP finals to even it up. Then Gom will have a massive headache lol


Indeed mvp having to resort to finding new abusive timings, or all ins like 1-1-1... is really painful to see to me. Of course a player of his calibur if he had confidence in a straight macro game with toss he would go with that instead of putting his tournament life on a gimmicky all in - signs of desperation shown. He does it because macro game vs toss is hard from terran perspective ^-^
rareh
Profile Joined May 2011
Portugal298 Posts
December 10 2011 08:41 GMT
#7411
On December 10 2011 17:38 JohnMatrix wrote:
titan 2-0 supernova lol ?


Why are you surprised ?
Suohhen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States59 Posts
December 10 2011 08:41 GMT
#7412
On December 10 2011 17:38 ryland05 wrote:
I missed what happened today, I can't seem to find results.


WCG 2011 SC2 Main Tournament

But honestly you should be able to find anything you need to know about SC on Liquipedia yourself so work on that.
David451
Profile Joined October 2010
United States491 Posts
December 10 2011 08:42 GMT
#7413
Anyone know where one could find VODs of MVP vs Bling? Pretty please?
Shae: I don't want to play. Tyrion: It's fun! Look at the fun we're having!
DirtyCash
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada189 Posts
December 10 2011 08:42 GMT
#7414
Gotta love the nvidia ad with terrible framerate.
fOrGG ♦ Creator
JohnMatrix
Profile Joined April 2011
France1359 Posts
December 10 2011 08:43 GMT
#7415
On December 10 2011 17:41 rareh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:38 JohnMatrix wrote:
titan 2-0 supernova lol ?


Why are you surprised ?


I Should not ?
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
December 10 2011 08:43 GMT
#7416
On December 10 2011 17:32 JesusOurSaviour wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:29 Lavi wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:22 JesusOurSaviour wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:43 Tachion wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:42 windsupernova wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:40 Lavi wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:38 andaylin wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:38 jojo311 wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:33 andaylin wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:32 StarVe wrote:
[quote]

Sup Son.

MVP is quite bad vs Protoss, though Bling is pretty decent.



what? you must be kidding, man. MVP is quite good vs T,P,Z all

he is significantly weaker vs Protoss. I'm sorry if you can't see this

Edit: such an early 1-1-1 push by MVP, dunno how i feel about this.


he's weaker because the match up... not because he is bad in tvp


Nah its definitively that MVP is worse against P.It has always been his weakness, just like Nestea is worse against T

MVP never really adapted to the 2 forge style. His upgrades are always so late in TvP that the longer the game goes on the worse and worse it gets for him.
No one has.figured it out. T v P is like the hardest matchup for all high-level Korean Terrans. Obviously maps and balance changes have and new BO/strats for Protoss have significantly changed the T v P landscape.

Terran players probably need to work harder to find counters to recent protoss improvements. Jiakji's gone for thor/banshee stuff. Others have used hellions to wreck unscrupulous protosses (Some Korean T versus Huk recently?). But it seems the most viable counters so far have either been All-in (thor banshee stuff) or early game abuse (hellions v hapless stalkers).

T v P is tough man. I guess it's time for Terrans to feel the pain that Tosses felt for aaaages lol


all those jjakji stuff, hellions wrecking huk, etc are bandaid all in or strong timing pushes just like 1-1-1 is... very gimmicky.
theres nothing to fig out since macro late game has been the same in tvp in forever, only the gimmicks change. macro terran vs macro toss - toss has advantage of stronger ball and upgrade, faster reinforcement due to warpgate so terran get one chance at max army vs max army to win outright with enough left over to kill the next remaxed army warp in, whereas toss has to win once then camp production, def in toss favour atm esp since terran form of aoe got nerfed hard (emp)
You're one of the few that actually support that T v P is tough. Well done - agree with everything you've said. All these recently developed builds are not only gimmicky, but at times all in. Tough times for T v P. Hey - we're sick of GomTvT finals right? Let's hope to get some PvP finals to even it up. Then Gom will have a massive headache lol

I think most terrans think it's really tough Protoss players probably think it's really tough as well for them. It's a stupid matchup overall in my opinion, said it many times before.
Meself
Profile Joined February 2011
Estonia552 Posts
December 10 2011 08:44 GMT
#7417
On December 10 2011 17:25 kagamin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:20 Meself wrote:
That can't be right...there's still a building there, only thing is you can walk over it.

Can't be right because otherwise we would have seen it used.


I know you can move burrowed roaches over lowered supply depots, so you could camp a burrowed roach on top of a lowered depot. Never heard of burrowing on top of a lowered depot though.

It seems you can. I just thought it would have come up in some high-level TvZ by now.

Source:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Burrow
Infestors or Roaches can move "across" lowered Supply Depots while burrowed. Furthermore, having a burrowed unit on top of a lowered Depot prevents it from being raised.


Maybe it still goes only for units that can be moved while burrowed.
Lavi
Profile Joined November 2011
Bangladesh793 Posts
December 10 2011 08:45 GMT
#7418
On December 10 2011 17:43 AxionSteel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:32 JesusOurSaviour wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:29 Lavi wrote:
On December 10 2011 17:22 JesusOurSaviour wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:43 Tachion wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:42 windsupernova wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:40 Lavi wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:38 andaylin wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:38 jojo311 wrote:
On December 10 2011 13:33 andaylin wrote:
[quote]
MVP is quite bad vs Protoss, though Bling is pretty decent.



what? you must be kidding, man. MVP is quite good vs T,P,Z all

he is significantly weaker vs Protoss. I'm sorry if you can't see this

Edit: such an early 1-1-1 push by MVP, dunno how i feel about this.


he's weaker because the match up... not because he is bad in tvp


Nah its definitively that MVP is worse against P.It has always been his weakness, just like Nestea is worse against T

MVP never really adapted to the 2 forge style. His upgrades are always so late in TvP that the longer the game goes on the worse and worse it gets for him.
No one has.figured it out. T v P is like the hardest matchup for all high-level Korean Terrans. Obviously maps and balance changes have and new BO/strats for Protoss have significantly changed the T v P landscape.

Terran players probably need to work harder to find counters to recent protoss improvements. Jiakji's gone for thor/banshee stuff. Others have used hellions to wreck unscrupulous protosses (Some Korean T versus Huk recently?). But it seems the most viable counters so far have either been All-in (thor banshee stuff) or early game abuse (hellions v hapless stalkers).

T v P is tough man. I guess it's time for Terrans to feel the pain that Tosses felt for aaaages lol


all those jjakji stuff, hellions wrecking huk, etc are bandaid all in or strong timing pushes just like 1-1-1 is... very gimmicky.
theres nothing to fig out since macro late game has been the same in tvp in forever, only the gimmicks change. macro terran vs macro toss - toss has advantage of stronger ball and upgrade, faster reinforcement due to warpgate so terran get one chance at max army vs max army to win outright with enough left over to kill the next remaxed army warp in, whereas toss has to win once then camp production, def in toss favour atm esp since terran form of aoe got nerfed hard (emp)
You're one of the few that actually support that T v P is tough. Well done - agree with everything you've said. All these recently developed builds are not only gimmicky, but at times all in. Tough times for T v P. Hey - we're sick of GomTvT finals right? Let's hope to get some PvP finals to even it up. Then Gom will have a massive headache lol

I think most terrans think it's really tough Protoss players probably think it's really tough as well for them. It's a stupid matchup overall in my opinion, said it many times before.


many toss have stated they find it a matchup they are confident in :3
mc, titan, tod, etc many of them relatively obscure players who able to take down code s terran :3
DirtyCash
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada189 Posts
December 10 2011 08:45 GMT
#7419
WTF AM I WATCHING
fOrGG ♦ Creator
Mithriel
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands2969 Posts
December 10 2011 08:45 GMT
#7420
On December 10 2011 17:41 rareh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 17:38 JohnMatrix wrote:
titan 2-0 supernova lol ?


Why are you surprised ?

im surprised, never ever heard of Titan before. Awesome though and good for him.
There is no shame in defeat so long as the spirit is unconquered. | Cheering for Maru, Innovation and MMA!
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