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I'm glad HuK was able to stay alive (and actually beat a fairly tough opponent for once). Happy birthday too 
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wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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HuK played pretty good tbh, especially game one.
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The Huk ceremony was awesome. Shame MMA couldn't make it to code S though.
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Good job HuK!!! I didnt believe and im sorry!!!!
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On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:On May 11 2011 21:44 kickinhead wrote:
I actually don't really like how HuK has been playing lately (lot's of mistakes and poor decision-making), but he performed very well in those games and made perfect decisions, so I guess he can actually play really solid and deserves to be in Code-S. Besides, no Foreiger in Code-S would be pretty much a joke if you look at how well the Foreigners perform in stuff like Stars Wars, TSL, NASL etc.
I actually think that the GSL looses a bit of credibility and prestige with only one Foreigner in Code-S when the Koreans get ripped apart in TSL and stuff. They should really work towards inviting really good Foreigners into the GSL more... Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case.
Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game.
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France13021 Posts
Epic, there are still people that consider the cross-servers results between foreigners and korean valid?
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On May 12 2011 05:51 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:On May 11 2011 21:44 kickinhead wrote:
I actually don't really like how HuK has been playing lately (lot's of mistakes and poor decision-making), but he performed very well in those games and made perfect decisions, so I guess he can actually play really solid and deserves to be in Code-S. Besides, no Foreiger in Code-S would be pretty much a joke if you look at how well the Foreigners perform in stuff like Stars Wars, TSL, NASL etc.
I actually think that the GSL looses a bit of credibility and prestige with only one Foreigner in Code-S when the Koreans get ripped apart in TSL and stuff. They should really work towards inviting really good Foreigners into the GSL more... Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case. Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game.
Koreans are not losing in LAN's. No one thinks they are as dominant as Brood War but on average they are still a fair way better.
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On May 12 2011 06:33 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 05:51 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:On May 11 2011 21:44 kickinhead wrote:
I actually don't really like how HuK has been playing lately (lot's of mistakes and poor decision-making), but he performed very well in those games and made perfect decisions, so I guess he can actually play really solid and deserves to be in Code-S. Besides, no Foreiger in Code-S would be pretty much a joke if you look at how well the Foreigners perform in stuff like Stars Wars, TSL, NASL etc.
I actually think that the GSL looses a bit of credibility and prestige with only one Foreigner in Code-S when the Koreans get ripped apart in TSL and stuff. They should really work towards inviting really good Foreigners into the GSL more... Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case. Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game. Koreans are not losing in LAN's. No one thinks they are as dominant as Brood War but on average they are still a fair way better.
How can koreans lose in GSL if all players minus one are korean? other LAN tournaments are few and far in between to actually reveal anything statistically significant.
Edit: I am not saying koreans aren't better.. they probably are in average... it's just sickening to read what some posters write.. like if koreans were handpicked by god to actually dominate starcraft 2.
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MMA NOOOOOOOO, that group was heart breaker =( wish all 3 could make it to code S.
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On May 12 2011 08:34 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 06:33 Blasphemi wrote:On May 12 2011 05:51 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:On May 11 2011 21:44 kickinhead wrote:
I actually don't really like how HuK has been playing lately (lot's of mistakes and poor decision-making), but he performed very well in those games and made perfect decisions, so I guess he can actually play really solid and deserves to be in Code-S. Besides, no Foreiger in Code-S would be pretty much a joke if you look at how well the Foreigners perform in stuff like Stars Wars, TSL, NASL etc.
I actually think that the GSL looses a bit of credibility and prestige with only one Foreigner in Code-S when the Koreans get ripped apart in TSL and stuff. They should really work towards inviting really good Foreigners into the GSL more... Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case. Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game. Koreans are not losing in LAN's. No one thinks they are as dominant as Brood War but on average they are still a fair way better. How can koreans lose in GSL if all players minus one are korean? other LAN tournaments are few and far in between to actually reveal anything statistically significant. Edit: I am not saying koreans aren't better.. they probably are in average... it's just sickening to read what some posters write.. like if koreans were handpicked by god to actually dominate starcraft 2.
Don't think anyone has said koreans are biologically good at starcraft. It's the combination of work ethics and 10 years of a mastered training routine that pushes them above the rest. Talent is a secondary trait. When you combine talent with intense training you get flash.
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On May 12 2011 08:34 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 06:33 Blasphemi wrote:On May 12 2011 05:51 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:On May 11 2011 21:44 kickinhead wrote:
I actually don't really like how HuK has been playing lately (lot's of mistakes and poor decision-making), but he performed very well in those games and made perfect decisions, so I guess he can actually play really solid and deserves to be in Code-S. Besides, no Foreiger in Code-S would be pretty much a joke if you look at how well the Foreigners perform in stuff like Stars Wars, TSL, NASL etc.
I actually think that the GSL looses a bit of credibility and prestige with only one Foreigner in Code-S when the Koreans get ripped apart in TSL and stuff. They should really work towards inviting really good Foreigners into the GSL more... Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case. Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game. Koreans are not losing in LAN's. No one thinks they are as dominant as Brood War but on average they are still a fair way better. How can koreans lose in GSL if all players minus one are korean? other LAN tournaments are few and far in between to actually reveal anything statistically significant. Edit: I am not saying koreans aren't better.. they probably are in average... it's just sickening to read what some posters write.. like if koreans were handpicked by god to actually dominate starcraft 2.
Doesn't matter if they are few and far and between...every foreign lan attended by at least 1 Korean was won by a Korean. Foreigners have won no GSL's. Until that fact changes Koreans are still better.
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On May 12 2011 09:03 antelope591 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 08:34 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 06:33 Blasphemi wrote:On May 12 2011 05:51 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:On May 11 2011 21:44 kickinhead wrote:
I actually don't really like how HuK has been playing lately (lot's of mistakes and poor decision-making), but he performed very well in those games and made perfect decisions, so I guess he can actually play really solid and deserves to be in Code-S. Besides, no Foreiger in Code-S would be pretty much a joke if you look at how well the Foreigners perform in stuff like Stars Wars, TSL, NASL etc.
I actually think that the GSL looses a bit of credibility and prestige with only one Foreigner in Code-S when the Koreans get ripped apart in TSL and stuff. They should really work towards inviting really good Foreigners into the GSL more... Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case. Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game. Koreans are not losing in LAN's. No one thinks they are as dominant as Brood War but on average they are still a fair way better. How can koreans lose in GSL if all players minus one are korean? other LAN tournaments are few and far in between to actually reveal anything statistically significant. Edit: I am not saying koreans aren't better.. they probably are in average... it's just sickening to read what some posters write.. like if koreans were handpicked by god to actually dominate starcraft 2. Doesn't matter if they are few and far and between...every foreign lan attended by at least 1 Korean was won by a Korean. Foreigners have won no GSL's. Until that fact changes Koreans are still better.
Not true. MaNa won Dreamhack.
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Glad HuK made it. Gotta have a foreigner to cheer for
Thought Tastosis were casting the up/downs though, was a little disappointed when they weren't for the HuK games.
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On May 12 2011 09:06 mpupu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 09:03 antelope591 wrote:On May 12 2011 08:34 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 06:33 Blasphemi wrote:On May 12 2011 05:51 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:
[quote]
Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case. Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game. Koreans are not losing in LAN's. No one thinks they are as dominant as Brood War but on average they are still a fair way better. How can koreans lose in GSL if all players minus one are korean? other LAN tournaments are few and far in between to actually reveal anything statistically significant. Edit: I am not saying koreans aren't better.. they probably are in average... it's just sickening to read what some posters write.. like if koreans were handpicked by god to actually dominate starcraft 2. Doesn't matter if they are few and far and between...every foreign lan attended by at least 1 Korean was won by a Korean. Foreigners have won no GSL's. Until that fact changes Koreans are still better. Not true. MaNa won Dreamhack.
Yea figured I'd forget one...but you could change it to top4 or better and the argument still stands.
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oh yea! Huk retains! Was getting worried that with no tosses coming into Code S from Code A that their numbers would further diminish.  Glad he was able to pull off the win!
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On May 12 2011 05:51 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:On May 11 2011 21:44 kickinhead wrote:
I actually don't really like how HuK has been playing lately (lot's of mistakes and poor decision-making), but he performed very well in those games and made perfect decisions, so I guess he can actually play really solid and deserves to be in Code-S. Besides, no Foreiger in Code-S would be pretty much a joke if you look at how well the Foreigners perform in stuff like Stars Wars, TSL, NASL etc.
I actually think that the GSL looses a bit of credibility and prestige with only one Foreigner in Code-S when the Koreans get ripped apart in TSL and stuff. They should really work towards inviting really good Foreigners into the GSL more... Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case. Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game.
you don't think idra practices 9+ hours a day? you think he just wakes up and plays matches? please don't take everything idra says to the heart.
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Just saw the Results, Congratz HuK you deserve it. !
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I feel Huk doesn't deserve a lot of his wins but he played really really well against MMA. Gratz, hope to see him make it further next season :D
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On May 12 2011 09:03 antelope591 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 08:34 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 06:33 Blasphemi wrote:On May 12 2011 05:51 s4life wrote:On May 12 2011 03:33 Qaatar wrote:On May 12 2011 01:02 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:48 kheldorin wrote:On May 11 2011 22:32 s4life wrote:On May 11 2011 22:07 lazyfeet wrote:On May 11 2011 21:44 kickinhead wrote:
I actually don't really like how HuK has been playing lately (lot's of mistakes and poor decision-making), but he performed very well in those games and made perfect decisions, so I guess he can actually play really solid and deserves to be in Code-S. Besides, no Foreiger in Code-S would be pretty much a joke if you look at how well the Foreigners perform in stuff like Stars Wars, TSL, NASL etc.
I actually think that the GSL looses a bit of credibility and prestige with only one Foreigner in Code-S when the Koreans get ripped apart in TSL and stuff. They should really work towards inviting really good Foreigners into the GSL more... Statement like this make me wish the Korean players not participating any more cross server online tournament. Yes Koreans were ripped in TSL but i will bet the European players will get ripped if they go to Korea consider the pool of korean pros competing in Korea. I guess Idra made the BEST decision ever by not competing in foreign online tournaments when he was in Korea. Koreans are getting ripped in China too.. GSL players are slightly better but not much better than foreign ones. Except for the final and semi-final, that Chinese tournament is still held online. Live location, in a booth, on a stage in front of a live audience >>>>> online tournaments. EU live events such as IEM, Dreamhack, Copenhagen has been won by a Korean anyway. And if a player is in 2 tournaments where one of them has much more local prestige and much more prize money, I doubt they are going to expose any of their new builds. We have seen so much more specially-made builds in the GSL from the Koreans but not really anywhere else. I guess we'll never know until half the players in Korea playing in the GSL are foreign... that will never happen. Seriously, if you don't trust your own eyes and brain (I have a hard time believing anyone who regularly watches, say, MVP's games, would say that he even played close to 50% of what he was capable of against Adelscott, no matter how bad he was against P at the time), at least trust the words of other pros like idrA: people need to stop taking cross-server online results seriously as far as a measurement of players' skill levels. Like a previous poster said, the only major result that has been legit was Thorzain vs. MC. It's not a knock on these online tournaments - just shitty Blizzard server technology. I mean, it's either all of that, or it's foreigners, who don't practice as much, who don't live in a teamhouse environment, who don't live, breathe, and swim in an RTS culture all day, can be just as good if not better than these other players (Koreans in this case). If that truly is the case, I think it might be more of an indictment on the poor quality of SC2 as an esport than anything else - a sport that rewards random variability over hard work. I don't think any of us wants that to be the case. Koreans lose left and right in tournaments here, in EU and China.. that never happened BW. SC2 is a different game, it doesn't reward random variability otherwise you wouldn't have players winning 3 GSLs, it does reward good decision making and game sense.. that's something you pick up in practice games but also when you think about the game... practicing mechanics is all good, but not nearly as decisive a factor as it was in BW... when Idra was asked how does he practice? he said he doesn't need to, he'd rather think about the game. Koreans are not losing in LAN's. No one thinks they are as dominant as Brood War but on average they are still a fair way better. How can koreans lose in GSL if all players minus one are korean? other LAN tournaments are few and far in between to actually reveal anything statistically significant. Edit: I am not saying koreans aren't better.. they probably are in average... it's just sickening to read what some posters write.. like if koreans were handpicked by god to actually dominate starcraft 2. Doesn't matter if they are few and far and between...every foreign lan attended by at least 1 Korean was won by a Korean. Foreigners have won no GSL's. Until that fact changes Koreans are still better.
Mana won dreamhack, MC almost lost to WhiteRA in Coppenhagen. That leaves Ace in IEM - Squirtle was pwned pretty badly by Socke throughout that tournament... so because Ace won handily in one tournament, suddenly koreans never lose in LAN games.. how ridiculous.
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EPT
