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I don't think I've ever laughed watching SC2 as much as I did that last game. Truly, it was a treat.
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People have shitty nights. Artosis screwed up in a lot of ways. Don't look too much into it, and don't let it affect your view of Artosis as a player.
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On May 05 2011 13:16 Gezuz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:10 jdseemoreglass wrote:I dunno guys, I'm still trying to decide who played worse: Artosis, or Grubby.  You are beyond stupid.... or just blind
Really? I mean they seem pretty close in terms of skill. I think Artosis might have a small edge. But it is PvP so Grubby might get lucky.
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If he is passive and want to macro. Protoss is the best race for that. they have the strongest 200/200. But you have to be very good at defend any type of all-in/timings/harass to play that style.
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On May 05 2011 13:14 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:11 HolyArrow wrote:On May 05 2011 13:08 Executor1 wrote:
I am glad they did address the lag issue on SOTG i agree that the TSL sentiment that there wasnt any lag in korea vs EU was pretty annoying. That was the one time where i actually agreed with idra last night. It is annoying. So many people clearly have no idea how much lag affects performance - not just actual micro, but also morale, confidence, and concentration. I see so many fallacious counterpoints to try to "disprove" lag, such as, "Oh, but *player in Korea* played so well, I don't see how there could be lag", which doesn't disprove lag at all - it only goes to make the player in Korea look really good. It makes my head hurt, so I'm glad they addressed it on SOTG (oh, and anyone arguing with me seems to be conveniently ignoring that fact - the fact that several high-profile pros explicitly came out and said that the lag is a big factor, IdrA going as far as saying that it's a huge handicap and he doesn't play in international tournaments from Korea just because of that). You are overplaying it, plain and simple. I don't care how crisp Artosis' connection is, Fenix is simply a better player, along with every other player Artosis has played so far. That's not to say Artosis is a bad player, he's just playing really, really good players. The result may have been closer, but there's a lot of room for it to be closer. Maybe we should also take into consideration whether a player also woke up on the wrong side of the bed and how that affects their morale, confidence, and concentration? Or maybe we should look at the medications they are taking and see what the side effects are? There's a line you have to draw at giving players excuses.
Sure, there is a line. You seem to be implying that "lag" as an excuse lies beyond that line, which is simply ludicrous. Lag is a very measurable, provable, real thing, unlike "woke up on the wrong side of bed" and such. And having performance other than micro being affected by lag is a natural logical leap to make.
Don't strawman me by mentioning that Fenix is a better player, because I'm not saying that he isn't. I completely agree with you that the result may have been closer if there wasn't lag, and I agree that Fenix would have won anyway. That's not the issue here. The issue is seeing so many people going "Oh, he doesn't deserve to be here, he's a terrible player" without looking at the big picture or listening to reason. Beyond Artosis specifically, the issue I take here is simply the tendency of so many people to downplay or ignore the affects of lag and just blurt out unfair, harsh judgments of players without any consideration of the big picture.
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On May 05 2011 13:14 MechKing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:12 57 Corvette wrote:Here are all my summaries of the night: Basic summary of Grubby vs Vibe G1: + Show Spoiler +Grubby vs VIBe G1
Typhon Peaks
Vibe in bottom right, Grubby in bottom left
Vibe goes 15hatch, 15 pool, Grubby makes a wall at nat with gate/core
Grubby throws down 3 extra gateways after vibe leaves his base, meaning a 4gate attack
Vibe puts up a spinecrawler and a makes a few of lings
Grubby throws down 2 proxy pylons and a round of stalkers
Vibe sees the units approaching and makes a lot of zerglings
Grubby attacks with a decent force of zealots and stalkers.
Vibe takes out the pylon and then surrounds grubby's force with zerglings.
Vibe successfully defends the 4gate an tries to counter attack, but the ramp is blocked by a zealot
Grubby has stopped mining gas, so no sentries to defend counterattacks, but a zealot blocks the wall.
Grubby warps in zealots on the ramp, trapping the zerglings attacking the wall
Vibe sacs an overlord to scout for any tech or transition.
Grubby takes his expansion on 45 supply at 9:45, Zerglings try to deny but the protoss army scares them off
Grubby throws up another hidden pylon southwest of vibe's nat
Vibe researches roach speed and burrow, and attacks
Vibe's attack with his roaches and lings gets a great concave, killing grubby's army and forcing the GG. Basic summary of Grubby vs Vibe G2 + Show Spoiler +Grubby vs Vibe G2
Xelnaga Caverns
Vibe bottom left, Grubby top right
Vibe goes pool first then gas, while Grubby does the same walloff as G1
Grubby takes his expansion at 23 supply.
Grubby goes for a 3gate expand build with a Stalker an a sentry, but Vibe scouts the gateways with his overlord and the expansion with his zerglings
Zerglings harrass Grubby's expansion, but do not force a cancel.
Vibe goes for an attack with 9 roaches and a lot of zerglings.
Forcefields go down, and the roaches attack over them.
The roaches do get into the natural area, and starts killing Grubby's army
Vibe forces a retreat into the main base, and snipes the natural nexus. Zerglings pour into the main base, but the wall makes it difficult to get all the lings in.
Vibe kills the last of Grubby's defending army and causes a GG, winning 2-0. Basic summary of Vibe vs Grubby G3 + Show Spoiler +NONE! This is just making it spoiler-free Basic summary of Rainbow vs KiwiKaki G1 + Show Spoiler +Rainbow vs Kiwikaki G1
Typhon Peaks
Rainbow Spawns bottom right, Kiwikaki spawns top left, cross positions
Rainbow opens with a 2rax opening (1 rax hidden) while Kiwk gets a 13 gateway 15 assumulator
Kiwi gets his second gas before his zealot, and does not scout until his core is finished.
Rainbow is doing no-gas 2rax agression.
Kiwi makes a robotics facility after one gateway, Rainbow's pulls all of his SCvs for an all-in attack
Kiwi misses the FF on the ramp and lets a few units up. Kiwi pulls probes and attacks the SCVs.
The marines and sentries kill all of eachother's workers, and Kiwi pumps out an immortal as the marines kill all of his units. The immortal picks up a decent amount of kills but is eventually killed by the marines
Kiwi GGs as he attacks with his final 1 probe. Basic summary of Rainbow vs Kiwikaki game 2 + Show Spoiler +Rainbow vs Kiwikaki G2
Xel'naga Caverns
Rainbow spawns bottom left, Kiwikaki spawns top right
Rainbow opens 12rax and Kiwi goes 13gate 14 assimilator.
Rainbow gets his gas at 14, playing more standard this game.
Kiwikaki yet again getting his second gas before zealot, and Rainbow gets 2 marines before building another barracks.
Kiwikaki sends out another very late scout, but it gets intercepted by a marine at the tower
Rainbow gets a reactor on his first barracks, a tech lab on his second.
Kiwi going for a 2gate robo build while Rainbow is going for a 2rax expand
Kiwi throws down an expansion around 6 mins with 2 sentries and a zealot.
Rainbow finishes his concussive shell research and starts stim as he moves out for an attack.
Rainbow tries to deny the expansion with a handfull of marines and marauders, but leaves after seeing 5 sentries.
Rainbow throws down his factory and starport as he floats his expansion over to his nat.
Kiwikaki makes 2 immortals before throwing down his robotics bay.
Rainbow gets supply blocked a but, but pumps out a few medivacs anyways.
Kiwikaki starts his first collosi as Rainbow moves out with a decent MMM force.
Rainbow loads up his units into medivacs and tries to drop the main.
Kiwi defended the drop, but he did not kill any units.
Rainbow starts the viking production as Kiwi gets Ground attack +1 and collosi range.
Kiwi is about 30 supply ahead at 12 mins into the game, and both players are on 2 bases.
Rainbow makes a few ghosts and starts taking out the rocks at his gold expansion.
Kiwikaki throws down a dark shrine as well as starts charge and gets +1 ground armour.
Rainbow attacks into Kiwi's third but has to back off as the collosi are too powerfull.
Rainbow drops into kiwi's main, and he defends with DTs after a moerate amount of damage.
Rainbow attacks into the third again, but is pushed out by a secent gateway count after taking out 2 collosi.
Kiwi remakes two robotics facilities as they were killed in the drop
Rainbow attacks into the third once again, this time with a better arc, but the forcefields change the tide of the battle and the protoss debatable comes out ahead. Heavy losses to both sides.
Rainbow continues attacking the third, Kiwi pulls probes but fails to kill the bio army
Kiwi's 3rd expansion gets denied by a DT.
Rainbow gets slowly whittled down by Kiwi's excelent defence and is finally forced to retread fully.
Rainbow is only mining off one base, while Kiwi is from two.
Kiwi pushes out to the middle of the map, taking his own gold base, and then attacks into Rainbow's third.
Rainbow gets some great EMPs off, forcing the army to retreat a lot.
More EMPs go off, but the protoss army is too strong and Rainbow retreats to his third.
Kiwikaki takes out the third of rainbow and then backs off, only losing a few gateway units.
Kiwi is ahead in supply, bases and upgrades at 26 mins into the game.
Kiwi attacks through the middle of the map, and after killing rainbow's army he ties the series at 1-1 with a GG from rainbow. Basic summary of Rainbow vs Kiwikaki G3 + Show Spoiler +Rainbow vs Kiwikaki G3
Shattered Temple
Rainbow spawns AAT THE 9:00 position, Kiwikaki spawns atthe 6:00 position
Rainbow gets 2 barracks (1 hidden) while Kiwi gets 13 gateway 14 gas again.
Rainbow is doing 2rax agression similar to game 1.
Kiwikaki gets his 2nd gas before zealot yet again.
Kiwi sees a lot of marines with his late probe scout and makes two more sentries.
Rainbow pulls all of his SCVs again.
Kiwi gets the FF off on the ramp, only letting 3 units up. Marines and SCVs attack the assimilator, micro battle ensues.
Rainbow attacks with all of his units, Kiwi has two sentries and stalkers, Guardian shield does help but the marine micro simply defeats all kiwi's units.
Kiwi GGs out in caps, and Rainbow takes the series 2-1, Bitbybit style. Basic summary or Fenix vs Artosis G1 + Show Spoiler +Fenix vs Artosis G1
Typhon Peaks
Fenix spawns Top right , Artosis Spawns bottom right
Artosis asks for a pause to fix his hotkeys.
Fenix opens 12rax, 14 refinery while Artosis goes for 13 gateway 15 gas.
Artosis pauses two more times to re-fix his hotkeys.
Fenix throws down another barracks and puts a reactor on his first barracks.
Artosis gets his zealot before his second gas, and after gets a stalker. He starts his warpgate after a short delay of having his core up
Fenix puts a tech lab on his second barracks, and starts conc shells along with a marauder
Artosis makes his robotics facility before his second gateway which goes down shortly after.
Fenix moves out with a handfull of MM while Artosis gets an observer out.
Fenix attacks with his small amount of units, and manages to take out a zealot and sentry as well as push into the base
Fenix actually manages to kill a lot of Artosis's units, as well as a few pulled probes.
Fenix keeps rallying units to Artosis base, attacking each time he gets a marauder.
Meanwhile in Fenix's base he throws down a factory, starport and another orbital for his natural expansion.
Artosis makes his own expansion after scouting Fenix's.
Artosis throws down a twilight council as well as another gateway.
Fenix moves out with a decent MMM force being followed by an observer.
Fenix loads some units into a medivac and drops into Artosis's main and attacks into the nat while expanding to his third.
Fenix snipes the one pylon powering all of Artosis's gateways and robotics facility, and artosis GGs, putting Fenix up 1-0 Basic summary of Fenix vs Artosis Game 2 + Show Spoiler +Fenix vs Artosis G2
Xel'naga Caverns
Fenix spawning Bottom left, Artosis spawning top right
Fenix makes a 12 barracks while Artosis makes a 13gateway 15 assimilator.
Fenix does not take gas, which may indicate a fast expansion.
Artosis makes no zealot and doesn't take his second gas.
Fenix starts his CC at 20 supply, trying to 1rax expand.
Artosis's first unit is a stalker that is chrono boosted out.
Fenix throws down 3 more barracks as his CC finishes.
Artosis starts an expansion after seeing the CC being built. Artosis micros his stalker very well, injuying the marines and killing 3 before he retreats.
Artosis throws down two more gateways and a force as his nexus finishes.
Artosis finally gets his 2nd gas after his expansion nexus finishes.
Artosis pokes Fenix with 3 stalkers, but is pushed back by marines.
Artosis throws down a twlight council and Fenix moves towards Artosis's base with some marines. They are faced with 8 stalkers and some probes. They kill the probes but all the stalkers live and defeat the marines
Artosis attacks with his 8 stalkers, abusing his range advantage as he starts researching charge.
The stalkers retreat to the middle of the map as Stim finishes.
Artosis throws down 2 more gateways as he starts armour 2 upgrade and finishes charge.
Fenix starts builing the CC for his third base.
Artosis starts blink and takes out the rocks at his gold expansion. Fenix also takes out his rocks.
Artosis makes a robo for observers as Fenix loads up fomr medivacs for a drop.
Fenix drops into the main with two medivacs worthof units while attacking in the front. Artosis fully on attacks the force entering his natural, ignoring the force in his main.
The main nexus gets sniped at the cost of most of the units dropped
Fenix takes a decent lead 15 mins into the game, but Artosis moves into Fenix's nat with a decent force
Artosis's army gets destroyed by the MMM of Fenix.
Fenix Positions himself outside of Artosis's natural base while taking a 4th and 5th base on the bottom of the map.
Fenix loads up 3 medivacs with units to drop while attacking the front with the rest. The drop takes out a lot of buildings, but artosis fends off the attack at the front easily.
Artosis cleans up the drop, but Fenix is already at the his natural, landing a nuke on his mineral line.
Fenix's nuke takes out all of Artosis's mining and puts him down nearly 100 food.
As Fenix makes his 6th base into a planetary, artosis moves out to take his gold.
That gold base is promptly scanned and taken out by Fenix.
Two thors join Fenix's army and after they take out all the zealots Artosis GGs. Fenix takes it 2-0. Basic summary of Fenix vs Artosis G3 + Show Spoiler +Crisp and Clean, No Spoilers Wow, great job! This should go in the OP for people that couldn't watch.
lol I already asked him to do just that. told him people saw it and that it was good.
I'm so happy about this whole thing despite being frankly a low post scrub I made a LR thread that didn't suck
and I may have had some help doing the entire thing  love the community thank you everyone and good night
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On May 05 2011 13:11 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:09 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Why is Artosis so bad? I guess he's just not playing enough or something.
Shame, he probably feels bad for even entering the tournament now. I really want to see him win at least a game soon. Artosis isn't bad, Fenix is incredibly good. keep in mind that he face smashed kiwikaki and grubby.
Gonna have to disagree. I love Artosis, but he is completely falling apart. He made nothing but elementary mistakes in G1. Lets go down the list:
Losing a zealot + sentry by not microing units at the ramp.
Pulling way too many probes to deal with a simple marine pressure.
Letting money build up to 600+ minerals and 200+ gas without any production.
Not producing a single immortal during marine pressure.
Not warping in any re-enforcements.
Not using a single chronoboost to speed unit production.
Relying on one single pylon for powering core buildings.
These mistakes are acceptable when done alone, but to do all of them in one single game, it's simply embarrassing. Game two was no exception to massive error either. He ignored a drop to counter attack and ended up losing his Nexus, he engaged multiple times in horrible chokes, and he pulled probes again when he could've won the battle with his stalkers alone. I really hope he kicks his ass into gear and starts improving drastically.
EDIT: Just thought I'd chime in on the latency concern; yes, lag effects not only physical performance for macro and micro, but it can hurt a players confidence. This isn't news to Artosis. He's an experienced player who's traveled plenty to know the difference between playing with lag and without it. You can't rely on this excuse as justification for the flaws in performance.
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On May 05 2011 13:16 LightWireEX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:15 DannyJ wrote:On May 05 2011 13:13 cursor wrote:
No offense, but anyone saying shit like "I could beat Artosis in his current state..." etc have no fucking clue what you're talking about. You have no idea the level of play going on here- and have no idea how bad Artosis would push your shit in.
It's easy to watch someone lose, and imagine u could do better- but you can't. People here seem to have no the skill dynamic in Starcraft. Fuckin pisses me off. I'd almost agree... but then I've also watched his stream where he plays against low masters NA player. It's sad  But i still wuv him! Right. Did you see him on Korea server stomping face the other day? Artosis is an amazing player, and the people downplaying lag are just sick. The bashing, insults etc are just childish. Makes me really pissed off that a mod doesn't step in. Since when is it ok to bash players that are miles above you? ....he is a great commentator though.
The people saying lag is everything make me sick. I'm sure if Artosis is here right now he wouldn't say, "Oh well I only played badly because of the lag". No, he would own up and say "I played pretty bad tonight". It's okay for someone to play badly. You don't have to give them excuses. It's fairly obvious that Artosis was the underdog by a long shot coming into this game anyway.
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I'l be back tommorow to do the same thing, just it will be with all 5 series, not just 3.
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On May 05 2011 13:11 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:09 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Why is Artosis so bad? I guess he's just not playing enough or something.
Shame, he probably feels bad for even entering the tournament now. I really want to see him win at least a game soon. Artosis isn't bad, Fenix is incredibly good. keep in mind that he face smashed kiwikaki and grubby.
Obviously Artosis is better than the vast majority of players, but this is a pro tournament and you expect pro level gaming.
I don't want to be harsh here, but he simply did just about everything wrong in those matches and Fenix being good really had nothing to do with almost all of it. Unless Artosis was playing considerably below normal he simply isn't good enough to compete with pros right now.
I'll continue to root for him though.
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On May 05 2011 13:18 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:16 Gezuz wrote:On May 05 2011 13:10 jdseemoreglass wrote:I dunno guys, I'm still trying to decide who played worse: Artosis, or Grubby. You are beyond stupid.... or just blind Really? I mean they seem pretty close in terms of skill. I think Artosis might have a small edge. But it is PvP so Grubby might get lucky.
Ye youre just stupid. youre the same guy who wondered what grubby has achieved and then completly ignored several times Grubbys 3rd place at copenhagen and all of your points are just well.... wrong
This was sugar coated
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I think Artosis saw what Naniwa did in MLG and want to copy his achhivement just with a different approach!
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I haven't watched NASL since week one and part of two because I didn't have time, but I have to say that the entire league is a billion times better. The casting was great, the sound was great, I didn't get lag (best quality with the subscription) and the green screen was a nice change. Major props to NASL for such a vast improvement. The 25 dollar ticket is definitely worth the price now.
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On May 05 2011 13:16 LightWireEX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:15 DannyJ wrote:On May 05 2011 13:13 cursor wrote:
No offense, but anyone saying shit like "I could beat Artosis in his current state..." etc have no fucking clue what you're talking about. You have no idea the level of play going on here- and have no idea how bad Artosis would push your shit in.
It's easy to watch someone lose, and imagine u could do better- but you can't. People here seem to have no the skill dynamic in Starcraft. Fuckin pisses me off. I'd almost agree... but then I've also watched his stream where he plays against low masters NA player. It's sad But i still wuv him! Right. Did you see him on Korea server stomping face the other day? Artosis is an amazing player, and the people downplaying lag are just sick. The bashing, insults etc are just childish. Makes me really pissed off that a mod doesn't step in. Since when is it ok to bash players that are miles above you? ....he is a great commentator though.
And you just want to think a good player is better than he really is. He's not BAD, he's just not ANYWHERE near what he should be to be in the NASL. He lost both days today by making mistakes id imagine platinum people would. Pull 10 probes to kill 9 marines when you have 6 stalkers? Lose your entire army and probes to 100% typical terran pressure?
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On May 05 2011 13:18 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:16 LightWireEX wrote:On May 05 2011 13:15 DannyJ wrote:On May 05 2011 13:13 cursor wrote:
No offense, but anyone saying shit like "I could beat Artosis in his current state..." etc have no fucking clue what you're talking about. You have no idea the level of play going on here- and have no idea how bad Artosis would push your shit in.
It's easy to watch someone lose, and imagine u could do better- but you can't. People here seem to have no the skill dynamic in Starcraft. Fuckin pisses me off. I'd almost agree... but then I've also watched his stream where he plays against low masters NA player. It's sad But i still wuv him! Right. Did you see him on Korea server stomping face the other day? Artosis is an amazing player, and the people downplaying lag are just sick. The bashing, insults etc are just childish. Makes me really pissed off that a mod doesn't step in. Since when is it ok to bash players that are miles above you? ....he is a great commentator though. The people saying lag is everything make me sick. I'm sure if Artosis is here right now he wouldn't say, "Oh well I only played badly because of the lag". No, he would own up and say "I played pretty bad tonight". It's okay for someone to play badly. You don't have to give them excuses. It's fairly obvious that Artosis was the underdog by a long shot coming into this game anyway.
Lag being a huge factor =/= everything. He definitely played badly regardless, but lag contributed to that and likely made everything even worse. That's the point I'm trying to make.
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On May 05 2011 13:18 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:14 Uhh Negative wrote:On May 05 2011 13:11 HolyArrow wrote:On May 05 2011 13:08 Executor1 wrote:
I am glad they did address the lag issue on SOTG i agree that the TSL sentiment that there wasnt any lag in korea vs EU was pretty annoying. That was the one time where i actually agreed with idra last night. It is annoying. So many people clearly have no idea how much lag affects performance - not just actual micro, but also morale, confidence, and concentration. I see so many fallacious counterpoints to try to "disprove" lag, such as, "Oh, but *player in Korea* played so well, I don't see how there could be lag", which doesn't disprove lag at all - it only goes to make the player in Korea look really good. It makes my head hurt, so I'm glad they addressed it on SOTG (oh, and anyone arguing with me seems to be conveniently ignoring that fact - the fact that several high-profile pros explicitly came out and said that the lag is a big factor, IdrA going as far as saying that it's a huge handicap and he doesn't play in international tournaments from Korea just because of that). You are overplaying it, plain and simple. I don't care how crisp Artosis' connection is, Fenix is simply a better player, along with every other player Artosis has played so far. That's not to say Artosis is a bad player, he's just playing really, really good players. The result may have been closer, but there's a lot of room for it to be closer. Maybe we should also take into consideration whether a player also woke up on the wrong side of the bed and how that affects their morale, confidence, and concentration? Or maybe we should look at the medications they are taking and see what the side effects are? There's a line you have to draw at giving players excuses. Sure, there is a line. You seem to be implying that "lag" as an excuse lies beyond that line, which is simply ludicrous. Lag is a very measurable, provable, real thing, unlike "woke up on the wrong side of bed" and such. And having performance other than micro being affected by lag is a natural logical leap to make. Don't strawman me by mentioning that Fenix is a better player, because I'm not saying that he isn't. I completely agree with you that the result may have been closer if there wasn't lag, and I agree that Fenix probably would have won anyway. That's not the issue here. The issue is seeing so many people going "Oh, he doesn't deserve to be here, he's a terrible player" without looking at the big picture or listening to reason.
Implying lag affected his performance in such a significant way as we saw, is a stretch. There is just no way you can know that. Sure, it can affect someone in that way, but there a BILLION things that can affect someone's performance.
I agree that lag most likely affected his play somewhat, just not to the degree of losing concentration to do basic macro. Starcraft players do that in their sleep.
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On May 05 2011 13:19 Gezuz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:18 jdseemoreglass wrote:On May 05 2011 13:16 Gezuz wrote:On May 05 2011 13:10 jdseemoreglass wrote:I dunno guys, I'm still trying to decide who played worse: Artosis, or Grubby. You are beyond stupid.... or just blind Really? I mean they seem pretty close in terms of skill. I think Artosis might have a small edge. But it is PvP so Grubby might get lucky. Ye youre just stupid. youre the same guy who wondered what grubby has achieved and then completly ignored several times Grubbys 3rd place at copenhagen and all of your points are just well.... wrong This was sugar coated
Hmmm I dunno.... I mean I know Artosis has gotten at least second place finishes before. And his play tonight seemed a little more refined than Grubby's. I guess we'll just have to have a difference of opinion.
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On May 05 2011 13:11 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:08 Executor1 wrote:
I am glad they did address the lag issue on SOTG i agree that the TSL sentiment that there wasnt any lag in korea vs EU was pretty annoying. That was the one time where i actually agreed with idra last night. It is annoying. So many people clearly have no idea how much lag affects performance - not just actual micro, but also morale, confidence, and concentration. I see so many fallacious counterpoints to try to "disprove" lag, such as, "Oh, but *player in Korea* played so well, I don't see how there could be lag", which doesn't disprove lag at all - it only goes to make the player in Korea look really good. It makes my head hurt, so I'm glad they addressed it on SOTG (oh, and anyone arguing with me seems to be conveniently ignoring that fact - the fact that several high-profile pros explicitly came out and said that the lag is a big factor, IdrA going as far as saying that it's a huge handicap and he doesn't play in international tournaments from Korea just because of that).
Okay. Let's just say that lag plays a huge role - I should still point out that Artosis has yet to take a game in NASL after 8 games. How much of this is lag? Obviously, you aren't him so you can't give us an exact quantification but please, put a number on it. 60%? 80%? What is Artosis's true skill level? How much can't we see?
What I'm saying is, yes, lag affects him. We've heard you. But you can't excuse everything, can you? We all saw MC blow away Thorzain's Ghosts with half a dozen Feedbacks in 1 second during TSL 3. We saw Ace take 3 sets out of 3, without dropping a game. Lag matters, I'm 100% certain. But why can't you acknowledge a skill gap?
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the past few times i've randomly tuned into artosis' stream, he's always floating 1-2k minerals, or losing to all-ins and then berating his opponents... hahaha which is hilarious.
so i really wasn't expecting much from his actual tourney play. surprised a lot of people are surprised.
he's awesome and a great commentator, though
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On May 05 2011 13:22 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:19 Gezuz wrote:On May 05 2011 13:18 jdseemoreglass wrote:On May 05 2011 13:16 Gezuz wrote:On May 05 2011 13:10 jdseemoreglass wrote:I dunno guys, I'm still trying to decide who played worse: Artosis, or Grubby. You are beyond stupid.... or just blind Really? I mean they seem pretty close in terms of skill. I think Artosis might have a small edge. But it is PvP so Grubby might get lucky. Ye youre just stupid. youre the same guy who wondered what grubby has achieved and then completly ignored several times Grubbys 3rd place at copenhagen and all of your points are just well.... wrong This was sugar coated Hmmm I dunno.... I mean I know Artosis has gotten at least second place finishes before. And his play tonight seemed a little more refined than Grubby's. I guess we'll just have to have a difference of opinion.
Well clearly you simply havent seen grubbys play which you sad you have. And artosis second places were when ? back in 2008 ? or in BW ? Artosis is a legend but he will get 0-9 and evryone knew it before the league started. Hes still a great guy and a great commentator >.<
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EPT
