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Offhand
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1869 Posts
May 05 2011 04:13 GMT
#1261
On May 05 2011 13:12 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 13:11 On_Slaught wrote:
Grubby should easily 2-0 Artosis.

They both are making questionable decisions, but grubby def has better mechanics.


I'm not so sure. I think it might be a close match. Maybe 2-1 Artosis.


Grubby will micro.
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
May 05 2011 04:13 GMT
#1262
Thanks to 57 Corvette for the LR, I missed a lot of games tonight.
o choro é livre
Nabes
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1800 Posts
May 05 2011 04:14 GMT
#1263
artosis go back to your true race, terran^^
cooked
Profile Joined December 2010
China1238 Posts
May 05 2011 04:14 GMT
#1264
ipl spoiler whining incoming!
Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-05 04:15:06
May 05 2011 04:14 GMT
#1265
On May 05 2011 13:11 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 13:08 Executor1 wrote:
I am glad they did address the lag issue on SOTG i agree that the TSL sentiment that there wasnt any lag in korea vs EU was pretty annoying. That was the one time where i actually agreed with idra last night.


It is annoying. So many people clearly have no idea how much lag affects performance - not just actual micro, but also morale, confidence, and concentration. I see so many fallacious counterpoints to try to "disprove" lag, such as, "Oh, but *player in Korea* played so well, I don't see how there could be lag", which doesn't disprove lag at all - it only goes to make the player in Korea look really good.

It makes my head hurt, so I'm glad they addressed it on SOTG (oh, and anyone arguing with me seems to be conveniently ignoring that fact - the fact that several high-profile pros explicitly came out and said that the lag is a big factor, IdrA going as far as saying that it's a huge handicap and he doesn't play in international tournaments from Korea just because of that).

You are overplaying it, plain and simple. I don't care how crisp Artosis' connection is, Fenix is simply a better player, along with every other player Artosis has played so far. That's not to say Artosis is a bad player, he's just playing really, really good players. The result may have been closer, but there's a lot of room for it to be closer.

Maybe we should also take into consideration whether a player also woke up on the wrong side of the bed and how that affects their morale, confidence, and concentration? Or maybe we should look at the medications they are taking and see what the side effects are? There's a line you have to draw at giving players excuses.
MUFFINS1
Profile Joined March 2011
United States533 Posts
May 05 2011 04:14 GMT
#1266
On May 05 2011 13:14 OrangeSoda wrote:
artosis go back to your true race, terran^^

Zerg in sc2 is most similar to sc1 terran
hi
MechKing
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3004 Posts
May 05 2011 04:14 GMT
#1267
On May 05 2011 13:12 57 Corvette wrote:
Here are all my summaries of the night:

Basic summary of Grubby vs Vibe G1:

+ Show Spoiler +
Grubby vs VIBe G1

Typhon Peaks

Vibe in bottom right, Grubby in bottom left

Vibe goes 15hatch, 15 pool, Grubby makes a wall at nat with gate/core

Grubby throws down 3 extra gateways after vibe leaves his base, meaning a 4gate attack

Vibe puts up a spinecrawler and a makes a few of lings

Grubby throws down 2 proxy pylons and a round of stalkers

Vibe sees the units approaching and makes a lot of zerglings

Grubby attacks with a decent force of zealots and stalkers.

Vibe takes out the pylon and then surrounds grubby's force with zerglings.

Vibe successfully defends the 4gate an tries to counter attack, but the ramp is blocked by a zealot

Grubby has stopped mining gas, so no sentries to defend counterattacks, but a zealot blocks the wall.

Grubby warps in zealots on the ramp, trapping the zerglings attacking the wall

Vibe sacs an overlord to scout for any tech or transition.

Grubby takes his expansion on 45 supply at 9:45, Zerglings try to deny but the protoss army scares them off

Grubby throws up another hidden pylon southwest of vibe's nat

Vibe researches roach speed and burrow, and attacks

Vibe's attack with his roaches and lings gets a great concave, killing grubby's army and forcing the GG.


Basic summary of Grubby vs Vibe G2

+ Show Spoiler +
Grubby vs Vibe G2

Xelnaga Caverns

Vibe bottom left, Grubby top right

Vibe goes pool first then gas, while Grubby does the same walloff as G1

Grubby takes his expansion at 23 supply.

Grubby goes for a 3gate expand build with a Stalker an a sentry, but Vibe scouts the gateways with his overlord and the expansion with his zerglings

Zerglings harrass Grubby's expansion, but do not force a cancel.

Vibe goes for an attack with 9 roaches and a lot of zerglings.

Forcefields go down, and the roaches attack over them.

The roaches do get into the natural area, and starts killing Grubby's army

Vibe forces a retreat into the main base, and snipes the natural nexus. Zerglings pour into the main base, but the wall makes it difficult to get all the lings in.

Vibe kills the last of Grubby's defending army and causes a GG, winning 2-0.


Basic summary of Vibe vs Grubby G3

+ Show Spoiler +
NONE! This is just making it spoiler-free


Basic summary of Rainbow vs KiwiKaki G1

+ Show Spoiler +
Rainbow vs Kiwikaki G1

Typhon Peaks

Rainbow Spawns bottom right, Kiwikaki spawns top left, cross positions

Rainbow opens with a 2rax opening (1 rax hidden) while Kiwk gets a 13 gateway 15 assumulator

Kiwi gets his second gas before his zealot, and does not scout until his core is finished.

Rainbow is doing no-gas 2rax agression.

Kiwi makes a robotics facility after one gateway, Rainbow's pulls all of his SCvs for an all-in attack

Kiwi misses the FF on the ramp and lets a few units up. Kiwi pulls probes and attacks the SCVs.

The marines and sentries kill all of eachother's workers, and Kiwi pumps out an immortal as the marines kill all of his units. The immortal picks up a decent amount of kills but is eventually killed by the marines

Kiwi GGs as he attacks with his final 1 probe.


Basic summary of Rainbow vs Kiwikaki game 2

+ Show Spoiler +
Rainbow vs Kiwikaki G2

Xel'naga Caverns

Rainbow spawns bottom left, Kiwikaki spawns top right

Rainbow opens 12rax and Kiwi goes 13gate 14 assimilator.

Rainbow gets his gas at 14, playing more standard this game.

Kiwikaki yet again getting his second gas before zealot, and Rainbow gets 2 marines before building another barracks.

Kiwikaki sends out another very late scout, but it gets intercepted by a marine at the tower

Rainbow gets a reactor on his first barracks, a tech lab on his second.

Kiwi going for a 2gate robo build while Rainbow is going for a 2rax expand

Kiwi throws down an expansion around 6 mins with 2 sentries and a zealot.

Rainbow finishes his concussive shell research and starts stim as he moves out for an attack.

Rainbow tries to deny the expansion with a handfull of marines and marauders, but leaves after seeing 5 sentries.

Rainbow throws down his factory and starport as he floats his expansion over to his nat.

Kiwikaki makes 2 immortals before throwing down his robotics bay.

Rainbow gets supply blocked a but, but pumps out a few medivacs anyways.

Kiwikaki starts his first collosi as Rainbow moves out with a decent MMM force.

Rainbow loads up his units into medivacs and tries to drop the main.

Kiwi defended the drop, but he did not kill any units.

Rainbow starts the viking production as Kiwi gets Ground attack +1 and collosi range.

Kiwi is about 30 supply ahead at 12 mins into the game, and both players are on 2 bases.

Rainbow makes a few ghosts and starts taking out the rocks at his gold expansion.

Kiwikaki throws down a dark shrine as well as starts charge and gets +1 ground armour.

Rainbow attacks into Kiwi's third but has to back off as the collosi are too powerfull.

Rainbow drops into kiwi's main, and he defends with DTs after a moerate amount of damage.

Rainbow attacks into the third again, but is pushed out by a secent gateway count after taking out 2 collosi.

Kiwi remakes two robotics facilities as they were killed in the drop

Rainbow attacks into the third once again, this time with a better arc, but the forcefields change the tide of the battle and the protoss debatable comes out ahead. Heavy losses to both sides.

Rainbow continues attacking the third, Kiwi pulls probes but fails to kill the bio army

Kiwi's 3rd expansion gets denied by a DT.

Rainbow gets slowly whittled down by Kiwi's excelent defence and is finally forced to retread fully.

Rainbow is only mining off one base, while Kiwi is from two.

Kiwi pushes out to the middle of the map, taking his own gold base, and then attacks into Rainbow's third.

Rainbow gets some great EMPs off, forcing the army to retreat a lot.

More EMPs go off, but the protoss army is too strong and Rainbow retreats to his third.

Kiwikaki takes out the third of rainbow and then backs off, only losing a few gateway units.

Kiwi is ahead in supply, bases and upgrades at 26 mins into the game.

Kiwi attacks through the middle of the map, and after killing rainbow's army he ties the series at 1-1 with a GG from rainbow.


Basic summary of Rainbow vs Kiwikaki G3

+ Show Spoiler +
Rainbow vs Kiwikaki G3

Shattered Temple

Rainbow spawns AAT THE 9:00 position, Kiwikaki spawns atthe 6:00 position

Rainbow gets 2 barracks (1 hidden) while Kiwi gets 13 gateway 14 gas again.

Rainbow is doing 2rax agression similar to game 1.

Kiwikaki gets his 2nd gas before zealot yet again.

Kiwi sees a lot of marines with his late probe scout and makes two more sentries.

Rainbow pulls all of his SCVs again.

Kiwi gets the FF off on the ramp, only letting 3 units up. Marines and SCVs attack the assimilator, micro battle ensues.

Rainbow attacks with all of his units, Kiwi has two sentries and stalkers, Guardian shield does help but the marine micro simply defeats all kiwi's units.

Kiwi GGs out in caps, and Rainbow takes the series 2-1, Bitbybit style.


Basic summary or Fenix vs Artosis G1

+ Show Spoiler +
Fenix vs Artosis G1

Typhon Peaks

Fenix spawns Top right , Artosis Spawns bottom right

Artosis asks for a pause to fix his hotkeys.

Fenix opens 12rax, 14 refinery while Artosis goes for 13 gateway 15 gas.

Artosis pauses two more times to re-fix his hotkeys.

Fenix throws down another barracks and puts a reactor on his first barracks.

Artosis gets his zealot before his second gas, and after gets a stalker. He starts his warpgate after a short delay of having his core up

Fenix puts a tech lab on his second barracks, and starts conc shells along with a marauder

Artosis makes his robotics facility before his second gateway which goes down shortly after.


Fenix moves out with a handfull of MM while Artosis gets an observer out.

Fenix attacks with his small amount of units, and manages to take out a zealot and sentry as well as push into the base

Fenix actually manages to kill a lot of Artosis's units, as well as a few pulled probes.

Fenix keeps rallying units to Artosis base, attacking each time he gets a marauder.

Meanwhile in Fenix's base he throws down a factory, starport and another orbital for his natural expansion.

Artosis makes his own expansion after scouting Fenix's.

Artosis throws down a twilight council as well as another gateway.

Fenix moves out with a decent MMM force being followed by an observer.

Fenix loads some units into a medivac and drops into Artosis's main and attacks into the nat while expanding to his third.

Fenix snipes the one pylon powering all of Artosis's gateways and robotics facility, and artosis GGs, putting Fenix up 1-0


Basic summary of Fenix vs Artosis Game 2

+ Show Spoiler +
Fenix vs Artosis G2

Xel'naga Caverns

Fenix spawning Bottom left, Artosis spawning top right

Fenix makes a 12 barracks while Artosis makes a 13gateway 15 assimilator.

Fenix does not take gas, which may indicate a fast expansion.

Artosis makes no zealot and doesn't take his second gas.

Fenix starts his CC at 20 supply, trying to 1rax expand.

Artosis's first unit is a stalker that is chrono boosted out.

Fenix throws down 3 more barracks as his CC finishes.

Artosis starts an expansion after seeing the CC being built. Artosis micros his stalker very well, injuying the marines and killing 3 before he retreats.

Artosis throws down two more gateways and a force as his nexus finishes.

Artosis finally gets his 2nd gas after his expansion nexus finishes.

Artosis pokes Fenix with 3 stalkers, but is pushed back by marines.

Artosis throws down a twlight council and Fenix moves towards Artosis's base with some marines. They are faced with 8 stalkers and some probes. They kill the probes but all the stalkers live and defeat the marines

Artosis attacks with his 8 stalkers, abusing his range advantage as he starts researching charge.

The stalkers retreat to the middle of the map as Stim finishes.

Artosis throws down 2 more gateways as he starts armour 2 upgrade and finishes charge.

Fenix starts builing the CC for his third base.

Artosis starts blink and takes out the rocks at his gold expansion. Fenix also takes out his rocks.

Artosis makes a robo for observers as Fenix loads up fomr medivacs for a drop.

Fenix drops into the main with two medivacs worthof units while attacking in the front. Artosis fully on attacks the force entering his natural, ignoring the force in his main.

The main nexus gets sniped at the cost of most of the units dropped

Fenix takes a decent lead 15 mins into the game, but Artosis moves into Fenix's nat with a decent force

Artosis's army gets destroyed by the MMM of Fenix.

Fenix Positions himself outside of Artosis's natural base while taking a 4th and 5th base on the bottom of the map.

Fenix loads up 3 medivacs with units to drop while attacking the front with the rest. The drop takes out a lot of buildings, but artosis fends off the attack at the front easily.

Artosis cleans up the drop, but Fenix is already at the his natural, landing a nuke on his mineral line.

Fenix's nuke takes out all of Artosis's mining and puts him down nearly 100 food.

As Fenix makes his 6th base into a planetary, artosis moves out to take his gold.

That gold base is promptly scanned and taken out by Fenix.

Two thors join Fenix's army and after they take out all the zealots Artosis GGs. Fenix takes it 2-0.


Basic summary of Fenix vs Artosis G3

+ Show Spoiler +
Crisp and Clean, No Spoilers



Wow, great job! This should go in the OP for people that couldn't watch.
Deleted User 108965
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1096 Posts
May 05 2011 04:14 GMT
#1268
watching artosis's stream i see a guy who is trying to figure out his own things and make his own builds work. i think in the future he will get steadily better, not that hes bad now <3
Disciple....Top 3 control in Clarion County
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
May 05 2011 04:15 GMT
#1269
On May 05 2011 13:13 cursor wrote:
No offense, but anyone saying shit like "I could beat Artosis in his current state..." etc have no fucking clue what you're talking about. You have no idea the level of play going on here- and have no idea how bad Artosis would push your shit in.

It's easy to watch someone lose, and imagine u could do better- but you can't. People here seem to have no the skill dynamic in Starcraft. Fuckin pisses me off.


I'd almost agree... but then I've also watched his stream where he plays against low masters NA player. It's sad

But i still wuv him!
Pajegetc
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3158 Posts
May 05 2011 04:15 GMT
#1270
On May 05 2011 13:13 Offhand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 13:12 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On May 05 2011 13:11 On_Slaught wrote:
Grubby should easily 2-0 Artosis.

They both are making questionable decisions, but grubby def has better mechanics.


I'm not so sure. I think it might be a close match. Maybe 2-1 Artosis.


Grubby will micro.


Watching Grubby's Stream you can tell PvP is his best match up, His blink stalker micro is insane.
Lose Early game - Cheese. Lose Mid Game - All Ined. Lose Late Game - OMG IMBALANCE. My Guide to Zerg LR.
Nabes
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1800 Posts
May 05 2011 04:15 GMT
#1271
On May 05 2011 13:14 MUFFINS1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 13:14 OrangeSoda wrote:
artosis go back to your true race, terran^^

Zerg in sc2 is most similar to sc1 terran


lol how?
Kazang
Profile Joined August 2010
578 Posts
May 05 2011 04:15 GMT
#1272
On May 05 2011 13:14 MUFFINS1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 13:14 OrangeSoda wrote:
artosis go back to your true race, terran^^

Zerg in sc2 is most similar to sc1 terran


If by similar you mean completely different then yes.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
May 05 2011 04:16 GMT
#1273
On May 05 2011 13:12 Macibax wrote:
i wonder if Artosis would have done better if he hadnt switched races

i think hes just bad
love him as a person and commentator though

For these people who still thinks day9 would rip apart the tournament scene if he had the time, look at artosis
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
May 05 2011 04:16 GMT
#1274
On May 05 2011 13:13 AlBundy wrote:
Thanks to 57 Corvette for the LR, I missed a lot of games tonight.



NP, In my spare time I am going to turn these basic summaries into full-out battle reports. Practice for writing in my school's Lit mag.
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
LightWireEX
Profile Joined September 2010
United States387 Posts
May 05 2011 04:16 GMT
#1275
On May 05 2011 13:15 DannyJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 13:13 cursor wrote:
No offense, but anyone saying shit like "I could beat Artosis in his current state..." etc have no fucking clue what you're talking about. You have no idea the level of play going on here- and have no idea how bad Artosis would push your shit in.

It's easy to watch someone lose, and imagine u could do better- but you can't. People here seem to have no the skill dynamic in Starcraft. Fuckin pisses me off.


I'd almost agree... but then I've also watched his stream where he plays against low masters NA player. It's sad

But i still wuv him!



Right. Did you see him on Korea server stomping face the other day? Artosis is an amazing player, and the people downplaying lag are just sick. The bashing, insults etc are just childish. Makes me really pissed off that a mod doesn't step in. Since when is it ok to bash players that are miles above you?


....he is a great commentator though.
ghOst.3344
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
May 05 2011 04:16 GMT
#1276
On May 05 2011 13:14 MUFFINS1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 13:14 OrangeSoda wrote:
artosis go back to your true race, terran^^

Zerg in sc2 is most similar to sc1 terran

What even slightly makes you consider that?
kvn4444
Profile Joined September 2010
1510 Posts
May 05 2011 04:16 GMT
#1277
he could still redeem himself by beating a player of grubbys status. however that type of match up thats so micro intensive and relies a lot on good/quick decision making I thnk grubby will win.
Gezuz
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden306 Posts
May 05 2011 04:16 GMT
#1278
On May 05 2011 13:10 jdseemoreglass wrote:
I dunno guys, I'm still trying to decide who played worse: Artosis, or Grubby.


You are beyond stupid.... or just blind
Lightwish01
Profile Joined April 2011
65 Posts
May 05 2011 04:17 GMT
#1279
Lets be honest- Artosis played very very poorly. Fact is he hasnt had much time to practice, and has been out of the game for years now. Its going to take him some time to get back into it, but I have a feeling after this embaressement he will stick to commentating and coaching only.
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
May 05 2011 04:17 GMT
#1280
On May 05 2011 13:14 Uhh Negative wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 13:11 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 05 2011 13:08 Executor1 wrote:
I am glad they did address the lag issue on SOTG i agree that the TSL sentiment that there wasnt any lag in korea vs EU was pretty annoying. That was the one time where i actually agreed with idra last night.


It is annoying. So many people clearly have no idea how much lag affects performance - not just actual micro, but also morale, confidence, and concentration. I see so many fallacious counterpoints to try to "disprove" lag, such as, "Oh, but *player in Korea* played so well, I don't see how there could be lag", which doesn't disprove lag at all - it only goes to make the player in Korea look really good.

It makes my head hurt, so I'm glad they addressed it on SOTG (oh, and anyone arguing with me seems to be conveniently ignoring that fact - the fact that several high-profile pros explicitly came out and said that the lag is a big factor, IdrA going as far as saying that it's a huge handicap and he doesn't play in international tournaments from Korea just because of that).

You are overplaying it, plain and simple. I don't care how crisp Artosis' connection is, Fenix is simply a better player, along with every other player Artosis has played so far. The result may have been closer, but there's a lot of room for it to be closer.


I think so too. If they played all their games on lan, artosis wouldn't have won 1 bo3.
We clearly saw that his ingame decision making / understanding of the game was extremely poor
His mechanics were god awful, and on his stream they aren't better.
He floats consistently around 1k+ minerals, misses his warpgate cycle HEAVILY etc.

From a skill point of view, artosis doesn't belong to the NASL.
Don't get me wrong, i really really like artosis, and before the NASL started i really wanted artosiso to do well the most.
wat
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