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[TSL] Ro8 Day 1 - Page 326

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Jisall
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2054 Posts
April 24 2011 00:32 GMT
#6501
Thorzain the crazy thor is going final. calling it bitches
Monk: Because being a badass is more fun then playing a dude wearing a scarf.. ... Ite fuck it, Witch Doctor cuz I like killing stuff in a timely mannor.
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
April 24 2011 00:38 GMT
#6502
On April 24 2011 08:25 Zane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:24 ffadicted wrote:
Playing an online tournament is different then a LAN tournament, anyone that has done can tell you that.

I still havn't seen the VODs, but from what I heard, Thorzain was a huge baller, while MC didn't look like himself. I shall wait until I do to pass judgement

MC didn't look like himself at all. I mean he didn't all-in even once.

So it's confirmed, someone stole MCs identity and played instead of him.
I'll call Nada.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
April 24 2011 00:40 GMT
#6503
On April 24 2011 08:45 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:43 hugman wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:21 tdt wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:09 ULTRAmarine wrote:
mass void rays don't counter the thor strat since it's almost impossible to micro the rays so they don't take splash damage. they're too fragile. i'm thinking some odd carrier transition might stop it but then again vikings fuck shit up.


Rays do decent with magic box, but a tiny number of marines will render them useless because you can't micro them against the marines when they're within thor range.

There is no counter for toss other than not let them get it. Pros have tried it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211014
Sure maybe if you had 30 VR and hallucinate another 20 but terran rolls you long before building it.


Zergs have been struggling with Protoss deathballs for months, and yet people tell us to try different compositions, but you're sure nothing can beat this after it being used by one played in two games?


There were a MYRIAD of things MC could have done differently. Warp prism harass throughout the game would have slowed Thorzain's production down, for example. Multi-pronged attacks might have worked better instead of a huge deathball. The fact that SC2 right now is still one huge ball against another huge ball is a testament to the game's infantile strategic and mechanical state. Unless there is solid and well developed mathematical proof that deathballs are better than BW-esque multi-pronged attacks of guerilla units, I just have to chalk it up to pro players being mechanically and strategically lazy. I might be wrong, but I refuse to believe that SC2 is just a game of whoever gets a better blob composition at a certain food range, and engages at the right position.


There are several reasons (that have been pointed out in countless threads) that deathball played is promoted in SC2 where it wasn't in BW.

That said, yes, MC could've done quite a few different things to try to beat that.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Xodushai
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden174 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 00:51:11
April 24 2011 00:50 GMT
#6504
On April 24 2011 08:49 Blueblister wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:09 TheBanana wrote:
"Fun" fact: Of the last 6 players in TSL, 5 won a TL-open qualifier.

Oh, thats really interesting! Thanks for pointing it out =D



Interesting. In the interview with Strelok he said the invite system was kinda bad, with so many invites. This fact supports that statement and goes to show that the best players are aquired from qualifiers rather than from the inviters' judgement, or at least it shows such a tendency.
Blueblister
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden321 Posts
April 24 2011 00:58 GMT
#6505
On April 24 2011 09:50 Xodushai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:49 Blueblister wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:09 TheBanana wrote:
"Fun" fact: Of the last 6 players in TSL, 5 won a TL-open qualifier.

Oh, thats really interesting! Thanks for pointing it out =D



Interesting. In the interview with Strelok he said the invite system was kinda bad, with so many invites. This fact supports that statement and goes to show that the best players are aquired from qualifiers rather than from the inviters' judgement, or at least it shows such a tendency.

I think motivation plays a huge part in this. Players who goes through qualifiers becomes more committed and are more willing to make an effort preparing. Especially the attitude from some of the Korean players goes to show that. For this reason and also fairness I would like to see qualifiers only for the next season. TSL has a large enough price pool to attract the best players even without invites.
SACtheXchng
Profile Joined January 2011
168 Posts
April 24 2011 01:29 GMT
#6506
I couldn't watch the matches tonight, so I quickly checked the results when I came home. When I saw that Thorzain had eliminated MC I was really curious what excuse "Korea-Nuthuggers" would come up with this time, given both players were in europe at the time of this match.

Lo and behold, it's still our good old buddies Lag and Latency.

In my humble opinion it is about time that you guys say goodbye to your apparent notion that koreans are some kinds of super humans that simply aren't able to lose a single game to someone born anywhere else in the world but your beloved and sacramental korea..
Xahhk
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada540 Posts
April 24 2011 01:36 GMT
#6507
Has there been any other game where Ghost/templar/observer play was so back and forth? The caster duel dynamic is one of the best parts of SC2.
Dark.Pyro
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada94 Posts
April 24 2011 01:44 GMT
#6508
On April 24 2011 10:29 SACtheXchng wrote:
I couldn't watch the matches tonight, so I quickly checked the results when I came home. When I saw that Thorzain had eliminated MC I was really curious what excuse "Korea-Nuthuggers" would come up with this time, given both players were in europe at the time of this match.

Lo and behold, it's still our good old buddies Lag and Latency.

In my humble opinion it is about time that you guys say goodbye to your apparent notion that koreans are some kinds of super humans that simply aren't able to lose a single game to someone born anywhere else in the world but your beloved and sacramental korea..


But MC played Thorzain in Europe so lag could not have been an issue (Stated by the casters themselves during game 4?)
I Live for Aiur
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
April 24 2011 01:44 GMT
#6509
On April 24 2011 09:32 Jisall wrote:
Thorzain the crazy thor is going final. calling it bitches


Mkay... that's not much of a statement though. He just has one match to play... so its basically a 50/50 call. If you called it at the start of the tournament however... that would have been amazing.
maryelizbethwinstead
Profile Joined April 2011
Mexico223 Posts
April 24 2011 02:29 GMT
#6510
MC been a little too humble lately.

I think he should ramp up the arrogance and showboating so that he starts dominating again.

But Thorzain...MAN he looks good. His play I mean. Lag was not a factor at all. I like this guy.

Lord, teach me to be patient.
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
April 24 2011 03:06 GMT
#6511
Damn. I missed the Thorzain-MC match, and am watching the vods now -- just finished game 1

I notice that so many of the "upset" games (especially TvP's) in TSL have been decided by one player just not getting upgrades, and getting stomped by 2/2 bio (or 2/2 gateway stuff).

People criticize "all-ins", but being at 0/0 by 12 minutes is just as all-in as one-basing for a long time -- you're gambling that you win before the other guy's upgrade advantage stacks up too much.
SACtheXchng
Profile Joined January 2011
168 Posts
April 24 2011 03:12 GMT
#6512
On April 24 2011 10:44 Dark.Pyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 10:29 SACtheXchng wrote:
I couldn't watch the matches tonight, so I quickly checked the results when I came home. When I saw that Thorzain had eliminated MC I was really curious what excuse "Korea-Nuthuggers" would come up with this time, given both players were in europe at the time of this match.

Lo and behold, it's still our good old buddies Lag and Latency.

In my humble opinion it is about time that you guys say goodbye to your apparent notion that koreans are some kinds of super humans that simply aren't able to lose a single game to someone born anywhere else in the world but your beloved and sacramental korea..


But MC played Thorzain in Europe so lag could not have been an issue (Stated by the casters themselves during game 4?)

You might want to read my post again, although I feel kinda silly putting that word "again" into this sentence, because I can't think of a logical explanation for your reply other than you, instead of reading my ENTIRE post, simply seeing the two words "Lag" and "Latency" and instantly replying in a way that re-states what I had already said in the very post you quoted....
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
April 24 2011 03:17 GMT
#6513
Somehow I feel like Thorzain is going to get rolled by Kas.

But dam, taking out MC. dammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
GenoZStriker
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2914 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 03:19:49
April 24 2011 03:19 GMT
#6514
^ Sadly I think this is probably where the end of the line for him is. Kas' TvT is far more superior to what ThorZain's is. Sad though since he knocked out so many good player :/
eSports Prodigy & Illuminati member.
Rampager
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia1007 Posts
April 24 2011 03:25 GMT
#6515
God that was such a good series, only got to watch the VoDs then but such amazing games were played today. ThorZain please practice your heart out for Kas' TvT, ThorZain fighting!
DisaFear
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia4074 Posts
April 24 2011 03:27 GMT
#6516
MC lost?
Stuff like that always happens...
How devious | http://anartisticanswer.blogspot.com.au/
HULKAMANIA
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States1219 Posts
April 24 2011 03:34 GMT
#6517
On April 24 2011 12:12 SACtheXchng wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 10:44 Dark.Pyro wrote:
On April 24 2011 10:29 SACtheXchng wrote:
I couldn't watch the matches tonight, so I quickly checked the results when I came home. When I saw that Thorzain had eliminated MC I was really curious what excuse "Korea-Nuthuggers" would come up with this time, given both players were in europe at the time of this match.

Lo and behold, it's still our good old buddies Lag and Latency.

In my humble opinion it is about time that you guys say goodbye to your apparent notion that koreans are some kinds of super humans that simply aren't able to lose a single game to someone born anywhere else in the world but your beloved and sacramental korea..


But MC played Thorzain in Europe so lag could not have been an issue (Stated by the casters themselves during game 4?)

You might want to read my post again, although I feel kinda silly putting that word "again" into this sentence, because I can't think of a logical explanation for your reply other than you, instead of reading my ENTIRE post, simply seeing the two words "Lag" and "Latency" and instantly replying in a way that re-states what I had already said in the very post you quoted....

That's a fairly polite reply, all things considered. Props. And, Pyro, yeah... you're definitely gonna want to read the posts that you quote! The whole things, too, even when they're like seven lines long!
If it were not so, I would have told you.
PanzerKing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States483 Posts
April 24 2011 04:09 GMT
#6518
MC's illusions completely worked against him. His hallucinated Immortals actually blocked his zealots from engaging the Thors. Watch the replay - you'll see them trickle in one or two at a time instead of all being able to engage at once. It was a gimmicky play that completely underestimated Thorzain's intelligence and micro capability, and it totally backfired on MC.
http://tkrmx.blogspot.com/
Scribble
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2077 Posts
April 24 2011 04:16 GMT
#6519
On April 24 2011 09:40 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:45 Qaatar wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:43 hugman wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:21 tdt wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:09 ULTRAmarine wrote:
mass void rays don't counter the thor strat since it's almost impossible to micro the rays so they don't take splash damage. they're too fragile. i'm thinking some odd carrier transition might stop it but then again vikings fuck shit up.


Rays do decent with magic box, but a tiny number of marines will render them useless because you can't micro them against the marines when they're within thor range.

There is no counter for toss other than not let them get it. Pros have tried it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211014
Sure maybe if you had 30 VR and hallucinate another 20 but terran rolls you long before building it.


Zergs have been struggling with Protoss deathballs for months, and yet people tell us to try different compositions, but you're sure nothing can beat this after it being used by one played in two games?


There were a MYRIAD of things MC could have done differently. Warp prism harass throughout the game would have slowed Thorzain's production down, for example. Multi-pronged attacks might have worked better instead of a huge deathball. The fact that SC2 right now is still one huge ball against another huge ball is a testament to the game's infantile strategic and mechanical state. Unless there is solid and well developed mathematical proof that deathballs are better than BW-esque multi-pronged attacks of guerilla units, I just have to chalk it up to pro players being mechanically and strategically lazy. I might be wrong, but I refuse to believe that SC2 is just a game of whoever gets a better blob composition at a certain food range, and engages at the right position.


There are several reasons (that have been pointed out in countless threads) that deathball played is promoted in SC2 where it wasn't in BW.

That said, yes, MC could've done quite a few different things to try to beat that.


How is it promoted? Is it simply that it's easier? I would certainly agree with that - that it is easier to form a huge death ball. That doesn't make it better. I cannot think of a single reason why a deathball is better than small manually controlled groups with the exception of ease of use. It's "easy" to just send in 150 marines, zealots, or lings on an A-move command so you don't have to manage them, does that it make it good? By all means, make me understand why SC2 promotes the deathball, because what I currently understand is that SC2 *players* only use the deathball because it is possible, convenient, and nobody has good enough control yet to make it obsolete.
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
April 24 2011 04:18 GMT
#6520
On April 24 2011 13:09 PanzerKing wrote:
MC's illusions completely worked against him. His hallucinated Immortals actually blocked his zealots from engaging the Thors. Watch the replay - you'll see them trickle in one or two at a time instead of all being able to engage at once. It was a gimmicky play that completely underestimated Thorzain's intelligence and micro capability, and it totally backfired on MC.


While Thorzain certainly is an awesome player, it didn't take awesomeness to see the hallucinations -- he had a scan up while MC was making them, and had a raven floating over the battle.
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