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[TSL] Ro8 Day 1 - Page 325

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
April 23 2011 23:31 GMT
#6481
On April 24 2011 08:14 ROOTFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:02 s4life wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:01 ROOTFayth wrote:
On April 24 2011 07:58 s4life wrote:
It's sad to see so many comments downgrading Thorzain accomplishments.
1. MC didn't have Thorzain's replays. Well, Thorzain didn't have MC's either.
2. Lag. Well, oth players were in europe.
3. MC didn't get outplayed, he just didn't upgrade. Well, upgrades and timing attacks go hand in hand.
4. MC would have won in a LAN setting, not just battle.net. Well, what is next? MC needs to stare and you in the eye for him to win?

they were playing on the same lag, wtf are you talking about


Please re-read.

no need to re-read u talk as if one was at a disadvantage


Well, obviously you read it wrongly then.
Lizarb
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark307 Posts
April 23 2011 23:33 GMT
#6482
That ThorZaIN vs. MC match was pretty amazing.
Only thing I know is that I know nothing.
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 23:37:09
April 23 2011 23:33 GMT
#6483
On April 24 2011 08:23 Nimic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:09 ULTRAmarine wrote:
mass void rays don't counter the thor strat since it's almost impossible to micro the rays so they don't take splash damage. they're too fragile. i'm thinking some odd carrier transition might stop it but then again vikings fuck shit up.


Can't you just.. spread them before the battle? 1v1 a voidray beats a thor easily. A repaired thor might be another issue, but then the thor is more expensive and double the supply, so that should offset it somewhat.

Repair, Vikings also shooting VR three hexes away, and marines is death to VR. The counter was HTs but it was too powerful killing a massively upgraded thor with ease considering it's slowness. MC had his chance when 1-2 were on field with lightly defended base but choose to expand. 1 or 2 w/o armor blink slaker just own.
MC for president
mycro
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1579 Posts
April 23 2011 23:36 GMT
#6484
On April 24 2011 08:18 hugman wrote:
Does anyone know how long that 4th game was? It felt like it went on forever


I remember looking at the in-game timer when it was at ~31min.. so im guessing it ended at 35-40mins (game time).
TemplarCo.
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Mexico2870 Posts
April 23 2011 23:37 GMT
#6485
MC is out!! :D ThorZain is a total baller!! Kas vs ThorZain O.O Awesome!!
With an average game length of 7m36s over his 6 games in GSL3, this is a no-brainer. BitByBit pulls more SCVs than yo momma at a club on Mar Sara. ♞
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
April 23 2011 23:38 GMT
#6486
On April 24 2011 08:24 ffadicted wrote:
Playing an online tournament is different then a LAN tournament, anyone that has done can tell you that.

I still havn't seen the VODs, but from what I heard, Thorzain was a huge baller, while MC didn't look like himself. I shall wait until I do to pass judgement



IMO MC looked like himself but as you said Thorzain was a huge baller.
If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
Blueblister
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden321 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 23:42:09
April 23 2011 23:38 GMT
#6487
On April 24 2011 08:07 nam nam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 07:53 Blueblister wrote:
On April 24 2011 06:52 Xaax wrote:
This is quite unfair for MC where he can only rely on his instinct against a terran with a good mechanics and some awesome timing builds with no other games to show this other than the tsl and a few other sources. Thorzain may be overrated for now as we haven't really seem him play live yet, we have yet to see Thorzain crack in pressure ^^. Other than that Thorzain with incredible mechanics quite impress I am.

Their is probably the same amount of games with Thorzain as MC if the latter bothers looking.

From your comment I can tell that you haven't been paying much attention to the European scene. Thorzain has actually attended two of the large European events. He also beat Naama live on the DreamHack stage the same day the latter won DreamHack. Live events he has played in:
(Wiki)ESL Pro Series Nordic Season 3
(Wiki)DreamHack Winter 2010
(Wiki)The Gathering Easter 2011

You've gotten one thing right though. Thorzain's results has on average been inferior when playing live. This is very likely attributable to Thorzain not being able to use his greatest strength: preparing for specific matches.


Two of those are a long ass time ago and at that point he hadn't really accomplished anything that would warrant a better results, meaning he didn't really underperformed. The gathering he did pretty well in, going out in the quarter against his teammate in a bo3. I don't think that is proof of anything.

If you mean not accomplished anything as in not participating due to still being in school and an active WC3 player you are right. If you look at individual matches against top players he has been amongst the top since release.

He did play a very close match against Morrow in GamerTVs Swedish tournament when MorroW/SjoW/ was dominating everything. He also posted a 5-3 record against SjoW/Naama/MadfroG in the group stages of ESL Nordic (his 2-0 victory over MorroW doesn't count as MorroW was in the process of switching races). Both of these was tournaments when the matches where known far in advance which allowed him to prepare.

Comparably, Thorzain has kind of flopped at LANs; not making it out of group play at DreamHack and loosing to his first major obstacle at The Gathering.
Flowjo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States928 Posts
April 23 2011 23:40 GMT
#6488
argggg, close positons Lost Temple fml, come on nestea!!!
IMNestea's biggest fan.
sinii
Profile Joined August 2010
England989 Posts
April 23 2011 23:42 GMT
#6489
Wow so many stupid people in this thread.

MC played every bit as good as MC plays he was abso-frickin-lutely himself. They were both in the EU playing on the EU and they both played to the best of their abilities.

Thorzain straight up won today. End of story.
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
April 23 2011 23:43 GMT
#6490
On April 24 2011 08:21 tdt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:09 ULTRAmarine wrote:
mass void rays don't counter the thor strat since it's almost impossible to micro the rays so they don't take splash damage. they're too fragile. i'm thinking some odd carrier transition might stop it but then again vikings fuck shit up.


Rays do decent with magic box, but a tiny number of marines will render them useless because you can't micro them against the marines when they're within thor range.

There is no counter for toss other than not let them get it. Pros have tried it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211014
Sure maybe if you had 30 VR and hallucinate another 20 but terran rolls you long before building it.


Zergs have been struggling with Protoss deathballs for months, and yet people tell us to try different compositions, but you're sure nothing can beat this after it being used by one played in two games?
iMp.will.
Profile Joined July 2009
Bulgaria441 Posts
April 23 2011 23:44 GMT
#6491
watched all 3 tsl's and this is the first with so many upsets. would give it to the fact that the game is new and most top players got a similar level
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
April 23 2011 23:44 GMT
#6492
No VODs yet for this?
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 23:45:43
April 23 2011 23:45 GMT
#6493
On April 24 2011 08:43 hugman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:21 tdt wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:09 ULTRAmarine wrote:
mass void rays don't counter the thor strat since it's almost impossible to micro the rays so they don't take splash damage. they're too fragile. i'm thinking some odd carrier transition might stop it but then again vikings fuck shit up.


Rays do decent with magic box, but a tiny number of marines will render them useless because you can't micro them against the marines when they're within thor range.

There is no counter for toss other than not let them get it. Pros have tried it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211014
Sure maybe if you had 30 VR and hallucinate another 20 but terran rolls you long before building it.


Zergs have been struggling with Protoss deathballs for months, and yet people tell us to try different compositions, but you're sure nothing can beat this after it being used by one played in two games?


There were a MYRIAD of things MC could have done differently. Warp prism harass throughout the game would have slowed Thorzain's production down, for example. Multi-pronged attacks might have worked better instead of a huge deathball. The fact that SC2 right now is still one huge ball against another huge ball is a testament to the game's infantile strategic and mechanical state. Unless there is solid and well developed mathematical proof that deathballs are better than BW-esque multi-pronged attacks of guerilla units, I just have to chalk it up to pro players being mechanically and strategically lazy. I might be wrong, but I refuse to believe that SC2 is just a game of whoever gets a better blob composition at a certain food range, and engages at the right position.
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
April 23 2011 23:46 GMT
#6494
On April 24 2011 07:31 dtz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 07:27 Qaatar wrote:
On April 24 2011 07:21 mholden02 wrote:
oGsMC does not need anyone making excuses for him. He played great. MC had plenty of time, and all the replays he needed from Thorzain's match with Tyler to study Thorzain's TvP, as well as the "THOR BUILD."

Thorzain didn't use any gimmicky strats, or special unknown builds. 3 games he used standard BIO builds. 1 game he tried a 1 base Rine/Tank/banshee build, and the last game he used his patented Thor build, that MC must have studied, or deserved to lose for lack of preperation.

Lets not downgrade Thorzain's performance with pettiness. He played very standard TvP, and simply outplayed MC. He exhibited mechanics the equal of MC, and enough variety to not be a 1 trick pony. His victory was Impressive, and will go down as one of the greatest matches thus far in SC2 history.

Congratulations to both for giving TSL a thoroughly exciting match, with amazing skill and excitment.


- No he didn't.

- Not hard to do.

No one other than idiots are trying to denigrate Thorzain's accomplishments. HE played great - that's all there is to it. Using words like "amazing skill" and "one of the greatest matches thus far in SC2 history" to describe this, however, is going a bit too far.

Reminds me of all of the fawning Boxer is getting for simply winning these days, while exhibiting laughably bad mechanics at times.


If you didn't think game 4 was one of the greatest matches in SC2 history, which game qualifies as such?

Pretty sure everyone else will be able to pinpoint mistakes and flaws in any games you will mention. For such a short time this game has been on, that game 4 was as good as they come.


Kiwikaki vs Morrow (Metalopolis) and Clide vs Leenock (Shakuras Plateau) come to mind.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Blueblister
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden321 Posts
April 23 2011 23:49 GMT
#6495
On April 24 2011 08:09 TheBanana wrote:
"Fun" fact: Of the last 6 players in TSL, 5 won a TL-open qualifier.

Oh, thats really interesting! Thanks for pointing it out =D
stopmakingsense
Profile Joined January 2011
United States35 Posts
April 23 2011 23:57 GMT
#6496
On April 24 2011 08:44 s4life wrote:
No VODs yet for this?


They are being added now. Early games showing up here: http://www.youtube.com/user/teamliquidnet
Rammstorm
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1434 Posts
April 24 2011 00:05 GMT
#6497
On April 24 2011 08:45 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:43 hugman wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:21 tdt wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:09 ULTRAmarine wrote:
mass void rays don't counter the thor strat since it's almost impossible to micro the rays so they don't take splash damage. they're too fragile. i'm thinking some odd carrier transition might stop it but then again vikings fuck shit up.


Rays do decent with magic box, but a tiny number of marines will render them useless because you can't micro them against the marines when they're within thor range.

There is no counter for toss other than not let them get it. Pros have tried it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211014
Sure maybe if you had 30 VR and hallucinate another 20 but terran rolls you long before building it.


Zergs have been struggling with Protoss deathballs for months, and yet people tell us to try different compositions, but you're sure nothing can beat this after it being used by one played in two games?


There were a MYRIAD of things MC could have done differently. Warp prism harass throughout the game would have slowed Thorzain's production down, for example. Multi-pronged attacks might have worked better instead of a huge deathball. The fact that SC2 right now is still one huge ball against another huge ball is a testament to the game's infantile strategic and mechanical state. Unless there is solid and well developed mathematical proof that deathballs are better than BW-esque multi-pronged attacks of guerilla units, I just have to chalk it up to pro players being mechanically and strategically lazy. I might be wrong, but I refuse to believe that SC2 is just a game of whoever gets a better blob composition at a certain food range, and engages at the right position.


There is a thing called synergy favoring bigger groups of combined units over 1 unit type mass and/or guerrilla type attack mode. Harass is good but not so much favored in sc2.
"MC" -> Master of Ceremonies xD
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
April 24 2011 00:07 GMT
#6498
On April 24 2011 08:57 stopmakingsense wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:44 s4life wrote:
No VODs yet for this?


They are being added now. Early games showing up here: http://www.youtube.com/user/teamliquidnet


Thank you sir.
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 00:28:56
April 24 2011 00:24 GMT
#6499
On April 24 2011 08:43 hugman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:21 tdt wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:09 ULTRAmarine wrote:
mass void rays don't counter the thor strat since it's almost impossible to micro the rays so they don't take splash damage. they're too fragile. i'm thinking some odd carrier transition might stop it but then again vikings fuck shit up.


Rays do decent with magic box, but a tiny number of marines will render them useless because you can't micro them against the marines when they're within thor range.

There is no counter for toss other than not let them get it. Pros have tried it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211014
Sure maybe if you had 30 VR and hallucinate another 20 but terran rolls you long before building it.


Zergs have been struggling with Protoss deathballs for months, and yet people tell us to try different compositions, but you're sure nothing can beat this after it being used by one played in two games?

Mass infestors dominate a death ball. There is nothing toss can do against mass armored thor with viking cover we tried everything. read the thread.


MC for president
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
April 24 2011 00:27 GMT
#6500
On April 24 2011 08:45 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 08:43 hugman wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:21 tdt wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:11 Orpheusz wrote:
On April 24 2011 08:09 ULTRAmarine wrote:
mass void rays don't counter the thor strat since it's almost impossible to micro the rays so they don't take splash damage. they're too fragile. i'm thinking some odd carrier transition might stop it but then again vikings fuck shit up.


Rays do decent with magic box, but a tiny number of marines will render them useless because you can't micro them against the marines when they're within thor range.

There is no counter for toss other than not let them get it. Pros have tried it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211014
Sure maybe if you had 30 VR and hallucinate another 20 but terran rolls you long before building it.


Zergs have been struggling with Protoss deathballs for months, and yet people tell us to try different compositions, but you're sure nothing can beat this after it being used by one played in two games?


There were a MYRIAD of things MC could have done differently. Warp prism harass throughout the game would have slowed Thorzain's production down, for example. Multi-pronged attacks might have worked better instead of a huge deathball. The fact that SC2 right now is still one huge ball against another huge ball is a testament to the game's infantile strategic and mechanical state. Unless there is solid and well developed mathematical proof that deathballs are better than BW-esque multi-pronged attacks of guerilla units, I just have to chalk it up to pro players being mechanically and strategically lazy. I might be wrong, but I refuse to believe that SC2 is just a game of whoever gets a better blob composition at a certain food range, and engages at the right position.

MC could have stomped him with a gate push when he saw it since thors suck on thier own. Indeed a myrid of things could have won it for him. I was only commenting on blob vs blob.
MC for president
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