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Its time to enjoy the matches, keep the whining out of this thread. GL HF!
Also, don't reply to the whining and ignore it: have faith in the mods, we read every post and act swiftly. You're making it worse. Enjoy! |
Australia8532 Posts
On April 18 2011 09:36 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 09:25 SniXSniPe wrote:
I'm surprised the liquibet was in favor against Cruncher... Did nobody not catch a glimpse of his weekly series where he beat like Axslav/Strifecro/PainUser/LzGamer all 4-1 (4-0 against Strifecro), as well as beating some good players at FXO and MLG? I think most people liquibet with their heart rather than their minds for that one. (I know I did) There's so many Mondi fans out there still from BW and so many CrunCher haters from recent events. (I fall into the former) Predicted the score to the t but couldn't get the guts to vote against Mondi. T-T
This exactly; my brain screams something so different to what i end up clicking - it's like somehow my liquibet vote will force some sort of change in the universe 
Oh well - maybe that is why i am terrible at liquibet haha
I'm pretty confident in my next liquibet for Cruncher though :p
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On April 18 2011 09:36 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 09:25 SniXSniPe wrote:
I'm surprised the liquibet was in favor against Cruncher... Did nobody not catch a glimpse of his weekly series where he beat like Axslav/Strifecro/PainUser/LzGamer all 4-1 (4-0 against Strifecro), as well as beating some good players at FXO and MLG? I think most people liquibet with their heart rather than their minds for that one. (I know I did) There's so many Mondi fans out there still from BW and so many CrunCher haters from recent events. (I fall into the former) Predicted the score to the t but couldn't get the guts to vote against Mondi. T-T
Dont forget Mondi was the last zerg
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On April 18 2011 09:37 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 09:16 HuHEN wrote:
I dont agree at all, of course all unit retention is important, but stalkers are the least important to keep alive. Sentrys are so expensive once colossus production is going and they need to stockpile energy, colossus take a long time to build in large numbers and also deal a vast amount of damage, stalkers on the other hand are quite inefficient and easily replaced. If you see a protoss roll over zerg with mass stalker, its usually because their colossus/sentrys enabled them to kill a lot of the zerg army, colossus and sentrys are the units which enable protoss to fight roach/hydra efficiently, stalkers are just secondary damage dealers/good to use to roll over a zerg that has already had their armies severely weakened/built lots of corruptors. I don't think you quite get what I'm saying. It's not that you should sacrifice your sentries for your stalkers, but that how well you retain your stalkers has become key to this match-up. When Protoss builds colossi he's not necessarily thinking "let me sacrifice these colossi so I can get a larger stalker army," yet that's what it ends up being because the colossi are almost certainly going to be throw-aways - this is the reason Protoss have learned not to over-build them. The point is to force the Zerg to throw away even more resources than you do so that you can get up a higher stalker count that then wins you the game. The implications of this dynamic is that Zerg needs to figure out a way to cut down the number of stalkers. It's not enough to have a build that's capable of taking down the high-tech units if it leaves you with a huge number of blink stalkers afterward. In fact, most Zerg losses can be attributed to "overbuilding corrupters," but that's really just not being able to deal with the stalker count after you take down the colossi.
I agree that stalker retention is important, I just dont agree with it being more important.
edit: looking back at your earlier posts about this I think you might be on to something, I gotta check back when I dont have a splitting headache  .
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Is it really so difficult to refrain from even MENTIONING spoilers in a live report thread? No one cares if it was mentioned on his stream, it's just going to cause discussion about it and going to be spoiled here as well.
Really can't read this thread at all while watching NASL anymore, eh?
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Re the cruncher hate.
Play to win. Totally different from, say, Henry's handball vs Ireland. That is cheating, it's outside the rules of the game.
Cruncher always played Sc2 by the rules: cheaply, but he played it. From what I heard naniwa, on the other hand, didn't even turn up to his last NASL game - IMHO this is far more ill mannered than playing to win.
Thanks Cruncher for raising awareness of Protoss' power (I'm P and I believe they're OP vs Z)! Maybe Z will get a buff soon!
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I'm the only one that think that the issue of game 2 make some sense ? (I'm P by the way)
Mondragon played very well going with all that roach harass but he never tried to limit the number of colossi & voidray of cruncher (the real power units of the deathball mix).
All Cruncher's losses was mostly stalkers + canons (easy to remplace), the map & the mobility of colossi & voidray also helped a lot.
In my mind, Mondragon went for corruptors far too late (considering the fact the void were 3 upgrade in attacks).
Results: Cruncher cleaned all the corruptors, started to mass some stalker fodder & just a+move Mondragon with the classic deathball.
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LOOL just thought of this, remember that "zerg is underpowered" pic posted on this thread...
any1 find it hilarious that the zerg icon kinda looks like a Q? XD
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On April 18 2011 06:14 Kennigit wrote:King of Manner Show nested quote +Kennigit says (4:57 PM): you did well ^^ . Everyone on twitter was cheering for you Mondragon says (4:58 PM): nah after the games vs cruncher i found out how to play XD Kennigit says (4:58 PM): hahah Mondragon says (4:58 PM): wouldnt have lost now! ^^ roaches + infestors only are the key to everything Mondragon says (4:58 PM): found out too late taht infestors are the key ! Kennigit says (4:59 PM): protoss death ball is -_- Mondragon says (5:00 PM): yes protoss deathball isnt tough anymore if you make 10 infestors ^^ either infestors + roaches only Kennigit says (5:00 PM): haha Mondragon says (5:00 PM): or just broodlords only + infestors only both are fine but i found out 3 days too late Kennigit says (5:00 PM): ahh ;;; oh well, next time ^^ Mondragon says (5:00 PM): yep yep ----- Take your zerg tears elsewhere
Mondragon was doing this in his practise game against ToD and it didn't work... I'm not sure I understand...
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On April 18 2011 12:31 PopoChampion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:14 Kennigit wrote:King of Manner Kennigit says (4:57 PM): you did well ^^ . Everyone on twitter was cheering for you Mondragon says (4:58 PM): nah after the games vs cruncher i found out how to play XD Kennigit says (4:58 PM): hahah Mondragon says (4:58 PM): wouldnt have lost now! ^^ roaches + infestors only are the key to everything Mondragon says (4:58 PM): found out too late taht infestors are the key ! Kennigit says (4:59 PM): protoss death ball is -_- Mondragon says (5:00 PM): yes protoss deathball isnt tough anymore if you make 10 infestors ^^ either infestors + roaches only Kennigit says (5:00 PM): haha Mondragon says (5:00 PM): or just broodlords only + infestors only both are fine but i found out 3 days too late Kennigit says (5:00 PM): ahh ;;; oh well, next time ^^ Mondragon says (5:00 PM): yep yep ----- Take your zerg tears elsewhere Mondragon was doing this in his practise game against ToD and it didn't work... I'm not sure I understand...
I think it's different though. The way I see it playing out in mind is that you open like Mondragon does and start getting aggressive with drops and multi-pronged attacks. Meanwhile a lot of your gas back home goes towards getting a large (8-10+) force of infestors with energy and probably on to broodlords. By the time the Protoss gets to that 120-150ish food portion you push in with roach/infestor or roach/bl/infestor. The idea being that the aggression gives you a chance to field a lot of infestors without being at risk to a strong all-in push.
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On April 18 2011 06:34 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:32 Sky Net wrote:On April 18 2011 06:22 mordk wrote:Well, time for some predictions  MC 3-1  ThorZaINAdelscott 0-3 KasBoxeR 3-2 HasuObsNaNiwa 3-0 CrunCherMC will probably lose one game being caught a little off guard by thorzain's style. But he'll catch up. Training with Jinro is going to serve him well. Kas is going to roll adelscott. He'll play well in game one but lose anyway and then tilt and make horrible mistakes and lose terribly. Happens all the time. BoxeR vs Hasuobs is probably the most interesting Ro8 matchup. Hard to predict. I think hasuobs' PvT ain't too good, while BoxeR's TvP is so patient and solid. I think lag might screw BoxeR up a bit, 3-2 is the correct prediction imo. Naniwa is going to crush cruncher so hard it will make him look bronze league. He's on a whole different level of play. I give cruncher absolutely 0% chances he'll win. Some of Cruncher's PvP results: 2-0 vs Kiwikaki, 2-0 vs oGsInca. I consider Naniwa the favorite as well, but to say Cruncher has absolutely no chance to win is simply ignorant. I didn't ever say Cruncher's PvP was bad. I don't know where you read that. I'm pretty confident in naniwa's ability in PvP, he's a level above cruncher.
Really? You didn't say it was bad, but you said he would look bronze league. That is SO much worse and simply ignorant. Cruncher is getting all this un-needed hate. He played to win the game, and has beaten 2 amazing players already.
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Sad to see Mondragon go, he showed us amazing, action packed games this TSL. Unique style of constant aggression, plus that great BW game sense. Thanks for the show Mondi and good luck!
Also, good job to the casters & production crew, another well done day.
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On April 18 2011 06:15 Tracedragon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2011 06:08 Zane wrote:
Cruncher is my new favourite player. Today he showcased innovative play, great multi-tasking, superb micro. I was a Mondragon fan but today he got outplayed so bad. (: ... "I'm a fan of whoever's currently winning" much?
gotta love the people who ride those bandwagons all day lol
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So Cruncher cannon rushed in 1 game out of 7 games he's played in TSL and he gets this much hate. I'm not the biggest fan of the guy, but give him a break. Just because he took a game off your favorite player with cheese, he isn't some embodiment of all evil. 6-base 90-worker isn't the only correct way to play this game. I don't think anyone here would call cannons OP anyway.
In any case, Mondragon still showed some pretty exciting plays despite losing and I hope to see more of him in future tournaments.
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On April 18 2011 10:13 akaname wrote:
Re the cruncher hate.
Play to win. Totally different from, say, Henry's handball vs Ireland. That is cheating, it's outside the rules of the game.
Cruncher always played Sc2 by the rules: cheaply, but he played it. From what I heard naniwa, on the other hand, didn't even turn up to his last NASL game - IMHO this is far more ill mannered than playing to win.
Thanks Cruncher for raising awareness of Protoss' power (I'm P and I believe they're OP vs Z)! Maybe Z will get a buff soon!
Are you serious? Do you really think Naniwa did not show up for his NASL match just to be BM? Are you accusing MC and White-Ra for example are BM, because they did not play there NASL games either?
Naniwa is a pro, he gets paid by his team and sponsors to play and win games. Thats what he does. Do you really think that he would just skip a game in one of the biggest tourneys out there just because he wanted to fuck with his opponent? Why to be BM to give away free wins, his opponent must feel really really hurt right?
I think its alot more likelly that Naniwa really really really wanted to play that game but things sometimes dont turn out the way you want it.
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Guess I'm pulling for MC/Boxer 1st/2nd finish now. Strange turn of events.
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Meh, PvZ is so pathetically broken. I just hate that balance is such a "taboo" issue on TL when it's so painfully apparent that Mondragon is a far superior player. Honestly, all Protoss has to do in most games is just sit back and macro up enough Colossus+ whatever and then nothing can stop it :/
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 18 2011 15:11 Scila wrote:
Meh, PvZ is so pathetically broken. I just hate that balance is such a "taboo" issue on TL when it's so painfully apparent that Mondragon is a far superior player. Honestly, all Protoss has to do in most games is just sit back and macro up enough Colossus+ whatever and then nothing can stop it :/
I dont think we should be allowed to make balance judgments based on games without infestors.
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On April 18 2011 15:11 Scila wrote:
Meh, PvZ is so pathetically broken. I just hate that balance is such a "taboo" issue on TL when it's so painfully apparent that Mondragon is a far superior player. Honestly, all Protoss has to do in most games is just sit back and macro up enough Colossus+ whatever and then nothing can stop it :/
When a Zerg is as aggressive as Mondragon, the only thing you really can do as Protoss is defend, you're only saying Mondragon was the superior player because being the aggressor looks more impressive, when infact Cruncher defended the multi prong attacks very well. Stop being an idiot.
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On April 18 2011 15:11 Scila wrote:
Meh, PvZ is so pathetically broken. I just hate that balance is such a "taboo" issue on TL when it's so painfully apparent that Mondragon is a far superior player. Honestly, all Protoss has to do in most games is just sit back and macro up enough Colossus+ whatever and then nothing can stop it :/
Why don't you read Mondragon's comments before trolling the forums. He doesn't think he would have lost if they had played again and he had incorporated infestors into his play.
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On April 18 2011 15:11 Scila wrote:
Meh, PvZ is so pathetically broken. I just hate that balance is such a "taboo" issue on TL when it's so painfully apparent that Mondragon is a far superior player. Honestly, all Protoss has to do in most games is just sit back and macro up enough Colossus+ whatever and then nothing can stop it :/
You're missing the point... you are supposed to enjoy these tournaments, not cry over them. Well I take that back, you can cry in your room all you want... but it becomes a problem when people like me--who want to watch good games regardless of race--have to sift through all the people bitching and moaning about imbalance after every single fucking game.
I am actually shocked that people are still wondering why "balance is such a 'taboo' issue on TL" when I thought it was actually painfully obvious. I guess that's why people keep crying all the time... they just can't use common sense to figure out why they shouldn't just keep it to themselves (or for a balance discussion thread) when watching an amazing tournament like the TSL. Does it at least make sense now?
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