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On April 17 2011 08:20 Magic_Mike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 08:01 WellDuh wrote:On April 17 2011 07:50 busbarn wrote:Games being recommended because MorroW actually doing something hard (breaking 2-3 basing toss) Games not recommended when hasuobs just sits in base and wins no balance whine but that's actually how the games were  haha You're giving swedes bad name for your biased bullshit. Better shut up. HasuObs isn't playing for your own entertainment, but to win. And if MorroW doesn't know how to handle "sitting in their base" protosses then he needs to gtfo from the tournament. HasuObs is indeed playing for our entertainment as well as to win. If StarCraft was only about winning there would of been no TSL. No fans, no tournaments, no money. Just sayin.
No, he's playing to win exactly the same as every other pro-gamer.
The exact same as MC was against White-Ra in the final game at Dreamhack.
It's a strategy game at the end of the day. And if you think you have a higher percentage chance of winning playing a certain strategy. You're going to use it, whether it is entertaining or not.
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Didn't get a chance to watch the last game, but by the looks of this thread, I didn't miss much.
Excellent day for the TSL today! Honestly, Boxer vs. Sen = best match ever. I'm excited to see how far Boxer can go in this tournament
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On April 17 2011 08:14 OnlineHero wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 08:07 gibb wrote:
Summary;
Great games, a ton of fun, great casting and way too much balance whine in the LR thread.
I'm extra happy that BoxeR showed a great set of games too! I don't think balance whine will ever completely disappear from LR threads unfortunately. A lot of zergs have trouble with ZvP, this is a fact. They get dissapointed when their zerg heroes get slaughtered by toss. They shouldn't discuss it in the LR, but they just can't help themselves because they care too much about the game. It's worth noting that there was no zerg QQ in the Sen vs. Boxer series, I think it's specifically about ZvP.
Completely agree. Balance whine is not general, it is specific as to what the community in general struggles with. ZvT produces good games, and both players have good chances of winning. I was so very entertained by Sen vs Boxer, and also SO happy Boxer played so well! This is looking like the old boxer <3 As ZvP is now, you pretty much already know what player to liquibet on, and thus as matches seem to always go as people predict, the community responds with balance whine.
Balance whine is specific, and is by the whiners themselves believed to in a sense serve a purpose. Raising awareness of what is wrong with the game, and hoping it will change. Thus, whine follows ZvP, and not ZvT.
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On April 17 2011 08:26 TheHova wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 08:20 Magic_Mike wrote:On April 17 2011 08:01 WellDuh wrote:On April 17 2011 07:50 busbarn wrote:Games being recommended because MorroW actually doing something hard (breaking 2-3 basing toss) Games not recommended when hasuobs just sits in base and wins no balance whine but that's actually how the games were haha You're giving swedes bad name for your biased bullshit. Better shut up. HasuObs isn't playing for your own entertainment, but to win. And if MorroW doesn't know how to handle "sitting in their base" protosses then he needs to gtfo from the tournament. HasuObs is indeed playing for our entertainment as well as to win. If StarCraft was only about winning there would of been no TSL. No fans, no tournaments, no money. Just sayin. No, he's playing to win exactly the same as every other pro-gamer. The exact same as MC was against White-Ra in the final game at Dreamhack. It's a strategy game at the end of the day. And if you think you have a higher percentage chance of winning playing a certain strategy. You're going to use it, whether it is entertaining or not.
"Is it not because of the fans that I am able to continue gaming? If there were no fans, who would be watching my games? There would be no reason to broadcast matches that were not being watched. If I were to exaggerate it a bit, the fans would be the reason for my existence." -SlayerS_BoxeR Crazy as Me
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I just feel that zergs play zvp the wrong way. Everyone goes max roach/hydra with corruptors against heavy stalker colo with support sentry army. Most of the games are either protoss crushes zerg army or zerg sacrifice his entire army just to kill off colossus and stalker blob kills everything else.
Most zergs almost forget hive tech or get it really late ....and there is a unit called infestor that got fungal which should be super effective on paper because protoss army is always clumped and 2-3 fungals can trap the whole protoss army or just can mind control every colossus from protoss army and use it to kill the stalkers. Why noone is using it???
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On April 17 2011 07:57 fish83814 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:50 vrok wrote:On April 17 2011 07:46 littlejunior wrote:Only one zerg remain in TSL.  It broke our zerg hearts . . . Dude... Forget zerg... Fucking Boxer IS BACK!!! Who the hell is Boxer??
Are you for Rela?
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On April 17 2011 08:32 SkelA wrote:
I just feel that zergs play zvp the wrong way. Everyone goes max roach/hydra with corruptors against heavy stalker colo with support sentry army. Most of the games are either protoss crushes zerg army or zerg sacrifice his entire army just to kill off colossus and stalker blob kills everything else.
Most zergs almost forget hive tech or get it really late ....and there is a unit called infestor that got fungal which should be super effective on paper because protoss army is always clumped and 2-3 fungals can trap the whole protoss army or just can mind control every colossus from protoss army and use it to kill the stalkers. Why noone is using it???
Don't worry, master Day9, will show everyone how zerg is supposedly supposed to be played when he starts playing again.
At least, this is what everyone seems to think on reddit and a lot of TL =/
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For tomorrow's TSL can we get a pre-emptive "NO BALANCE DISCUSION" message at the top?. I like reading these threads, but the bitching just kills it for me.
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On April 17 2011 08:31 Magic_Mike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 08:26 TheHova wrote:On April 17 2011 08:20 Magic_Mike wrote:On April 17 2011 08:01 WellDuh wrote:On April 17 2011 07:50 busbarn wrote:Games being recommended because MorroW actually doing something hard (breaking 2-3 basing toss) Games not recommended when hasuobs just sits in base and wins no balance whine but that's actually how the games were haha You're giving swedes bad name for your biased bullshit. Better shut up. HasuObs isn't playing for your own entertainment, but to win. And if MorroW doesn't know how to handle "sitting in their base" protosses then he needs to gtfo from the tournament. HasuObs is indeed playing for our entertainment as well as to win. If StarCraft was only about winning there would of been no TSL. No fans, no tournaments, no money. Just sayin. No, he's playing to win exactly the same as every other pro-gamer. The exact same as MC was against White-Ra in the final game at Dreamhack. It's a strategy game at the end of the day. And if you think you have a higher percentage chance of winning playing a certain strategy. You're going to use it, whether it is entertaining or not. "Is it not because of the fans that I am able to continue gaming? If there were no fans, who would be watching my games? There would be no reason to broadcast matches that were not being watched. If I were to exaggerate it a bit, the fans would be the reason for my existence." -SlayerS_BoxeR Crazy as Me
Being entertained is entirely subjective to what your preference is. A lot of people were entertained
today. Me being one. So just because you and others don't find something exciting, it doesn't mean it is the same for everybody else. It just so happens the people disappointed often make the most noise and it drowns out the others. I was entertained. And so he'll still have my views, my time and the money that generates. Along with a lot of others. Jus sayin'.
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On April 17 2011 08:35 Jman5 wrote:
For tomorrow's TSL can we get a pre-emptive "NO BALANCE DISCUSION" message at the top?. I like reading these threads, but the bitching just kills it for me.
Should be at the top of the forum, above the banner.
"Balance discussion will provoke lightning bolts from R1CH's eye.
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On April 17 2011 08:38 TheHova wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 08:31 Magic_Mike wrote:On April 17 2011 08:26 TheHova wrote:On April 17 2011 08:20 Magic_Mike wrote:On April 17 2011 08:01 WellDuh wrote:On April 17 2011 07:50 busbarn wrote:Games being recommended because MorroW actually doing something hard (breaking 2-3 basing toss) Games not recommended when hasuobs just sits in base and wins no balance whine but that's actually how the games were haha You're giving swedes bad name for your biased bullshit. Better shut up. HasuObs isn't playing for your own entertainment, but to win. And if MorroW doesn't know how to handle "sitting in their base" protosses then he needs to gtfo from the tournament. HasuObs is indeed playing for our entertainment as well as to win. If StarCraft was only about winning there would of been no TSL. No fans, no tournaments, no money. Just sayin. No, he's playing to win exactly the same as every other pro-gamer. The exact same as MC was against White-Ra in the final game at Dreamhack. It's a strategy game at the end of the day. And if you think you have a higher percentage chance of winning playing a certain strategy. You're going to use it, whether it is entertaining or not. "Is it not because of the fans that I am able to continue gaming? If there were no fans, who would be watching my games? There would be no reason to broadcast matches that were not being watched. If I were to exaggerate it a bit, the fans would be the reason for my existence." -SlayerS_BoxeR Crazy as Me Being entertained is entirely subjective to what your preference is. A lot of people were entertained today. Me being one. So just because you and others don't find something exciting, it doesn't mean it is the same for everybody else. It just so happens the people disappointed often make the most noise and it drowns out the others. I was entertained. And so he'll still have my views, my time and the money that generates. Along with a lot of others. Jus sayin'.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I have HasuObs to win the entire thing in my bracket so I absolutely loved watching the games. Also the Boxer/Sen games were the best I've seen in a while. I can just see this guys point as well. If you are not invested into the players at all, or not already a fan, then I can understand why Hasu's play today could be seen as boring. After game 1 the only reason I continued to watch was because of the brackets. I wouldn't call it entertaining at least when compared with Hasu's previous games. The giant Protoss death ball just isn't fun to watch.
Edit: Or maybe it was just that the most effing epic series in history played out right before theirs.
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Really hope Mondragon wins his match tomorrow, if anything just so there'll be at least 1 zerg left T_T
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I am super confused about when to watch the stream, I am new to this website and everything is super organized but the times are a little confusing...also Boxer and Sen finished playing right? is it possible to watch their VODs' somewhere? am I not finding it or are they not up yet?
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VODs will be up here sometime tonight.
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On April 17 2011 08:35 Hyren wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:57 fish83814 wrote:On April 17 2011 07:50 vrok wrote:On April 17 2011 07:46 littlejunior wrote:Only one zerg remain in TSL. It broke our zerg hearts . . . Dude... Forget zerg... Fucking Boxer IS BACK!!! Who the hell is Boxer?? Are you for Rela?
I don't know a Boxer either. I only know BoxeR.
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Canada11607 Posts
On April 17 2011 07:57 fish83814 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:50 vrok wrote:On April 17 2011 07:46 littlejunior wrote:Only one zerg remain in TSL. It broke our zerg hearts . . . Dude... Forget zerg... Fucking Boxer IS BACK!!! Who the hell is Boxer?? I didn't play sc:bw and I didn't care how well he done The fact he killed my favorite player just broke my heart.... Not saying he is bad or anything but just cannot bare the fact almost all zergs are out
You know not who is BoxeR? You shall know better hereafter.
Pay The Emperor his due respect and bow before his his imperial mightiness!
So pumped! (And now I am ashamed that I doubted his abilities and backed Sen in my liquibet )
On a side note, MoonBear is a Boss.
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On April 17 2011 07:58 kheldorin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:51 entropius wrote:On April 17 2011 07:48 Asvhald wrote:
Zerg loses - Game not recommended
Zerg wins - Game is recommended
Why? Because zerg wins against protoss have historically involved some sort of ambitious, ballsy, oddball early aggression/drop play -- Idra vs. Cruncher game 2, some of the Idra vs. HuK games, and Morrow's first win in this series. These things are exciting to watch. Zerg losses against protoss, in contrast, involve a-moved deathballs, 4gate, or 6gate. These things are typically not exciting. But Protoss needs to defend against that aggression in order to get that Deathball. It's no different when in GSL 1 where Fruit Dealer defended against all the Terran harass and just swarmed his opponent in the end. So people can appreciate good Zerg defense and offense but can't appreciate good Protoss defense and offense. There's just no winning in the entertainment factor if you're playing Protoss.
Wise words there my friend.
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On April 17 2011 08:45 exurgate wrote:
I am super confused about when to watch the stream, I am new to this website and everything is super organized but the times are a little confusing...also Boxer and Sen finished playing right? is it possible to watch their VODs' somewhere? am I not finding it or are they not up yet?
Make sure to set your time zone in the user settings. Calendar times will automatically adjust to this time.
Forum post time (default forum time) I believe is Korean Standard Time.
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On April 17 2011 08:35 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 08:32 SkelA wrote:
I just feel that zergs play zvp the wrong way. Everyone goes max roach/hydra with corruptors against heavy stalker colo with support sentry army. Most of the games are either protoss crushes zerg army or zerg sacrifice his entire army just to kill off colossus and stalker blob kills everything else.
Most zergs almost forget hive tech or get it really late ....and there is a unit called infestor that got fungal which should be super effective on paper because protoss army is always clumped and 2-3 fungals can trap the whole protoss army or just can mind control every colossus from protoss army and use it to kill the stalkers. Why noone is using it??? Don't worry, master Day9, will show everyone how zerg is supposedly supposed to be played when he starts playing again. At least, this is what everyone seems to think on reddit and a lot of TL =/
haha so true about people waiting on Day9 to "solve it" for them. I remember reading people saying "Day9 needs to do another daily on Zerg."
I think we've seen a fair amount of top notch Zergs try different approaches than the low-win-rate way (passive, no drops/multi-prongs). It just hasn't been smoothed out yet and there is no "standard" way to win it yet.
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On April 17 2011 08:51 AntiGrav1ty wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:58 kheldorin wrote:On April 17 2011 07:51 entropius wrote:On April 17 2011 07:48 Asvhald wrote:
Zerg loses - Game not recommended
Zerg wins - Game is recommended
Why? Because zerg wins against protoss have historically involved some sort of ambitious, ballsy, oddball early aggression/drop play -- Idra vs. Cruncher game 2, some of the Idra vs. HuK games, and Morrow's first win in this series. These things are exciting to watch. Zerg losses against protoss, in contrast, involve a-moved deathballs, 4gate, or 6gate. These things are typically not exciting. But Protoss needs to defend against that aggression in order to get that Deathball. It's no different when in GSL 1 where Fruit Dealer defended against all the Terran harass and just swarmed his opponent in the end. So people can appreciate good Zerg defense and offense but can't appreciate good Protoss defense and offense. There's just no winning in the entertainment factor if you're playing Protoss. Wise words there my friend.
Very true in many ways. The way Protoss is currently played, many people (myself included) will not appreciate a good defense. And I do not see that changing without Protoss finding another highly successful way to win (deathball is very successful, so why stop?). So Protoss will continue to be seen as unentertaining for many of us.
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EPT
