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On April 17 2011 07:57 Arimaki wrote:
As I see it, Zerg players are going for desperate strats that are overly risky because they're bothered with the way Protoss is atm.
You wouldn't see him take such huge risks against terran at least. Even his banelingbusts are sort of economical. Also consider he's been playing MC 6 times now recently and he's down 1-5, I think he just came to the conclusion that he needs to be super aggressive and try forcing the protoss to make a mistake.
If you've seen any of his interviews lately you kinda notice that he's almost becoming like idra, on the verge of giving up against protoss entirely. I'm surprised he didn't do any onebase roach all-ins today. I guess it would've been too obvious.
This, pretty much. From watching this series I judge Morrow to be a superior player, and in game 4 he *did* force the inferior player to make a mistake with his constant aggression at the ramp; P inexplicably fought in the wrong place (rather than just seizing and holding a nice concave at the bottom of it, forcefielding the hydras out, forcing the roaches to take damage while burrowmoving through, etc.), and Morrow won because of it. The series wasn't as close IMO as it looked, because Morrow shouldn't have been able to win game 4 in the way that he did.
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On April 17 2011 07:57 MildSeven wrote:
Result went as I expected, Hasu seems to have only one playstyle, exploiting the current imbalance of Protoss' most cost-efficient composition, instead of calling for protoss to be agressive, it forces zerg to be more proactive.
No matter how much larger zerg's food count is, the protoss death ball and turtling can curcumvent with ease, zerg are pushed to commit to extremely creative plays and i hope this meta-game shifts continually where zerg can finally figure out a smooth way of countering the turtling protoss voids/colo play. It allows lower tier players like Hasu and TT1 to appear high tier, but nonetheless a win is a win, and that's how the game should be played, there's morals behind it, simply exploiting your strengths and opponent's weaknesses.
Well played Morrow, saw some excellent zerg agression.
To Hasu, good for you.
xD you are so stupid, you should get banned for being an idiot.
protoss cannot play agressive in early/mdigame without allining cause of creepspread... he did what he could, harassing with air, using DTs ind early lategame stage, poking around with blinkstalkers and kill creeptumors
give me useful dropships and any harass unit like hellions or highdps/costeffecient units like marines and i can PLAY AGRESSIVE.
god, learn the game, learn what the races are made for and stop talking noobish bullshit when playing in silver league...
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 17 2011 08:01 WellDuh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:50 busbarn wrote:Games being recommended because MorroW actually doing something hard (breaking 2-3 basing toss) Games not recommended when hasuobs just sits in base and wins no balance whine but that's actually how the games were  haha You're giving swedes bad name for your biased bullshit. Better shut up. HasuObs isn't playing for your own entertainment, but to win. And if MorroW doesn't know how to handle "sitting in their base" protosses then he needs to gtfo from the tournament.
What zerg knows how to deal with that? I need to watch their play.
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On April 17 2011 07:57 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:53 hifriend wrote:On April 17 2011 07:51 DiaBoLuS wrote:On April 17 2011 07:49 zeru wrote:On April 17 2011 07:46 DiaBoLuS wrote:On April 17 2011 07:44 KiNGxXx wrote:Poll: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 5)?No (69) 52% Yes (56) 42% If you have time (8) 6% 133 total votes Your vote: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 5)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
whoever says no doesnt respect hasuobs defense :/ Hasu didnt win, morrow lost, every unit was doing its own thing. small group attacking pylon, small group trying to kill a col, small group standing around. i dont understand what you think was so impressive with his defense. ehm... he anticipated the drop perfectly, put cannons in his main before the drop happens, scouts for it permenently and puts all units on the edge where do drpo happens / puts forcefields on drop-positions to delay the drop... this is so smart, you do not even recognize how morrow lost half of his units before this "army split" that didnt changed anything, since it was over before. You and everyone else needs to recognize that a scouted drop is bound to fail in almost every situation.. ah - so the drop is "scouted" when u see a hydra-Den and 10 overlords clunched together? cmon... dont be stupid
the drop is scouted is when phoenix sees 4 gas on 2 bases with hydra den, no spire/roach warren, overlords with speed just chilling in a group instead of spreading out for vision, NO third anywhere in sight..
cmon... dont be stupid, doesn't take a genius to tell it's a hydra drop.
when an all-in-ish hydra drop is scouted, it's almost guaranteed to fail MOST of the time.
it's like zergs spreading overlords to scout medivac drops, if zerg scouts it, it'll most liekly fail and do zero damage
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On April 17 2011 07:47 Lolsss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:45 ZeraToss wrote:On April 17 2011 07:44 Lolsss wrote:
I was watching HDstarcrafts video. I think it was the whitera game.
The guy who is commentating on it actually spoils the Mondragon vs Cruncher game..
So i advise noone watches that series. what`? why hdstarcraft? how should he know? I have no idea how he knows. But the games are not casted live so he could have found out as hes fairly high up. All im saying is that he spoils the results of that series so just dont watch that particular match. just throwing out the warning cuz it annoyed me EDIT: my bad it was infact the cruncher series he spoils it in. just remembered
That VOD was posted 13 days ago, I wouldn't worry about it. :p
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On April 17 2011 07:48 Asvhald wrote:
Zerg loses - Game not recommended
Zerg wins - Game is recommended
Why?
because zerg players ONLY can win if they play absolutely flawless despite the FACT that their race is absolutely underpowered!
and if they lose, well : "gg maps", "gg ff", "gg chokes", "gg op races trolololol"
i have the feeling that in this thread are a little too many zergplayers...
thank you tl for an awesome evening of sc2 games ( i think the games were quite good ;-) and well done to Boxer and Hasu ;-)
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On April 17 2011 07:54 Redmark wrote:
Actually are these polls even going into the OP?
I hope so. I will put them together so the OP can add them easily:
Sen vs BoxeR
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +Poll: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 1)?Yes (158) 93% No (7) 4% If you have time (5) 3% 170 total votes Your vote: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 1)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +Poll: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 2)?Yes (178) 93% If you have time (9) 5% No (5) 3% 192 total votes Your vote: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 2)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +Poll: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 3)?Yes (201) 97% No (5) 2% If you have time (1) 0% 207 total votes Your vote: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 3)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +Poll: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 4)?Yes (98) 74% If you have time (22) 17% No (13) 10% 133 total votes Your vote: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 4)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +Poll: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 5)?Yes (245) 96% No (10) 4% If you have time (1) 0% 256 total votes Your vote: Recommend Sen vs BoxeR (Game 5)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
HasuObs vs MorroW
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +Poll: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 1)?No (75) 78% Yes (13) 14% If you have time (8) 8% 96 total votes Your vote: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 1)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +Poll: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 2)?Yes (87) 64% No (33) 24% If you have time (17) 12% 137 total votes Your vote: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 2)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +Poll: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 3)?No (69) 55% Yes (35) 28% If you have time (21) 17% 125 total votes Your vote: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 3)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +Poll: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 4)?Yes (68) 81% If you have time (9) 11% No (7) 8% 84 total votes Your vote: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 4)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +Poll: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 5)?No (69) 52% Yes (56) 42% If you have time (8) 6% 133 total votes Your vote: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 5)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
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On April 17 2011 08:01 Inflexion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:57 DiaBoLuS wrote:On April 17 2011 07:53 hifriend wrote:On April 17 2011 07:51 DiaBoLuS wrote:On April 17 2011 07:49 zeru wrote:On April 17 2011 07:46 DiaBoLuS wrote:On April 17 2011 07:44 KiNGxXx wrote:Poll: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 5)?No (69) 52% Yes (56) 42% If you have time (8) 6% 133 total votes Your vote: Recommend HasuObs vs MorroW (Game 5)? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
whoever says no doesnt respect hasuobs defense :/ Hasu didnt win, morrow lost, every unit was doing its own thing. small group attacking pylon, small group trying to kill a col, small group standing around. i dont understand what you think was so impressive with his defense. ehm... he anticipated the drop perfectly, put cannons in his main before the drop happens, scouts for it permenently and puts all units on the edge where do drpo happens / puts forcefields on drop-positions to delay the drop... this is so smart, you do not even recognize how morrow lost half of his units before this "army split" that didnt changed anything, since it was over before. You and everyone else needs to recognize that a scouted drop is bound to fail in almost every situation.. ah - so the drop is "scouted" when u see a hydra-Den and 10 overlords clunched together? cmon... dont be stupid the drop is scouted is when phoenix sees 4 gas on 2 bases with hydra den, no spire/roach warren, overlords with speed just chilling in a group instead of spreading out for vision, NO third anywhere in sight.. cmon... dont be stupid, doesn't take a genius to tell it's a hydra drop. when an all-in-ish hydra drop is scouted, it's almost guaranteed to fail MOST of the time. it's like zergs spreading overlords to scout medivac drops, if zerg scouts it, it'll most liekly fail and do zero damage
agree a bit, still the forcefields below the overlords and the reaction of hasuobs were amazing.
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On April 17 2011 07:58 Fungal Growth wrote:
Once again Morrow is too passive and loses his attack window... Zerg need to realize that a fast expanding toss takes forever to tech and this leaves a huge window open for attack before thermal lance is done.
Would also like to see Morrow (and zerg in general) do more 2 prong attacks. It doesn't make sense to ball up all your units when you face AOE units (like the colossi) and forcefields. One group of zerg units can attack one base and another group can attack the other. The group that faces the strongest resistance can retreat to buy time while the other group wipes out the other base.
Yes, yes and yes! I've been saying this for so long, add in some fungals so slow shit down even more aswell as some well microed drops and you'll probably be the next GSL champ. I'm probably gonna get alot of hate for this, but i think that most zergs just tries to beat protoss at their own game, which just won't happen.
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where's vods? i can't find...
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On April 17 2011 07:57 fish83814 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:50 vrok wrote:On April 17 2011 07:46 littlejunior wrote:Only one zerg remain in TSL.  It broke our zerg hearts . . . Dude... Forget zerg... Fucking Boxer IS BACK!!! Who the hell is Boxer?? I didn't play sc:bw and I didn't care how well he done The fact he killed my favorite player just broke my heart.... Not saying he is bad or anything but just cannot bare the fact almost all zergs are out
get out
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On April 17 2011 07:59 Ezekyle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:55 DiaBoLuS wrote:
ppl who say morrows wins were more entertaining should play action games, not strategy games...
protoss is bound to play defensive unless they allin, timingpush or do airharassment - there is simply no window to create "wow what impressive play" moments. Right, and that's why people don't recommend games where the Protoss wins. Because there are no "wow what impressive play" moments (except when San is involved, because he's a boss). It's just a few attacks failing utterly and then the Protoss rolling over their opponent. It may be skilful and strategic, but it sure as hell isn't fun to watch.
I think this is exactly why people *do* recommend the Adelscott games. Rather than boring cololsus deathball stuff, he uses intelligently-managed upgraded gateway units to create advantageous positioning and then engages with it.
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some ggs today sad to see the players i was rooting for lose
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On April 17 2011 07:54 Redmark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:51 entropius wrote:On April 17 2011 07:48 Asvhald wrote:
Zerg loses - Game not recommended
Zerg wins - Game is recommended
Why? Because zerg wins against protoss have historically involved some sort of ambitious, ballsy, oddball early aggression/drop play -- Idra vs. Cruncher game 2, some of the Idra vs. HuK games, and Morrow's first win in this series. These things are exciting to watch. Zerg losses against protoss, in contrast, involve a-moved deathballs, 4gate, or 6gate. These things are typically not exciting. Then why was game 5 not recommended? Actually are these polls even going into the OP?
It was such a train wreck of a game. All ins can be exciting to watch, but it needs to reach a point where the all inning player has done significant damage and the game advances to late game where we see whether the player did enough damage to counteract their builds poor transitioning into late game.
Morrow all inned and got scouted so it was basically over. Then he dropped and lost half his units before he finished unloading. It was just so one sided and I just felt bad for Morrow because of how badly it went.
Edit: I wish Protoss would stop winning just so I wouldn't get a headache from reading posts about how overpowered they are.
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On April 17 2011 07:58 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:56 entropius wrote:On April 17 2011 07:54 Redmark wrote:On April 17 2011 07:51 entropius wrote:On April 17 2011 07:48 Asvhald wrote:
Zerg loses - Game not recommended
Zerg wins - Game is recommended
Why? Because zerg wins against protoss have historically involved some sort of ambitious, ballsy, oddball early aggression/drop play -- Idra vs. Cruncher game 2, some of the Idra vs. HuK games, and Morrow's first win in this series. These things are exciting to watch. Zerg losses against protoss, in contrast, involve a-moved deathballs, 4gate, or 6gate. These things are typically not exciting. Then why was game 5 not recommended? Actually are these polls even going into the OP? I didn't vote in that poll, but I'd conjecture that it's just because it was sort of sad. It's sort of like, to use the metaphor that Day[9] kept using, the Karate Kid getting all the way to the finals and getting set up for his crane kick against someone three times his size, and then getting smacked down anyway. People like a David vs. Goliath story, and people perceive ZvP as one. David vs. Goliath is only memorable when David wins. Well said.
And yet poor weak David used an extremely powerful ranged weapon against a less mobile opponent using melee...i see how this works. :p
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Summary;
Great games, a ton of fun, great casting and way too much balance whine in the LR thread.
I'm extra happy that BoxeR showed a great set of games too!
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On April 17 2011 08:07 gibb wrote:
Summary;
Great games, a ton of fun, great casting and way too much balance whine in the LR thread.
I'm extra happy that BoxeR showed a great set of games too!
Yes the BoxeR games were particularly good.
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On April 17 2011 08:01 WellDuh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:50 busbarn wrote:Games being recommended because MorroW actually doing something hard (breaking 2-3 basing toss) Games not recommended when hasuobs just sits in base and wins no balance whine but that's actually how the games were haha You're giving swedes bad name for your biased bullshit. Better shut up. HasuObs isn't playing for your own entertainment, but to win. And if MorroW doesn't know how to handle "sitting in their base" protosses then he needs to gtfo from the tournament.
I was just commenting on why some games were recommended and some not. And because one player plays to win, his games should always be recommended? Doesnt make any sense
Also sorry. I'm in no way representing my country, maybe I should remove it like you 
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On April 17 2011 08:03 entropius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 07:59 Ezekyle wrote:On April 17 2011 07:55 DiaBoLuS wrote:
ppl who say morrows wins were more entertaining should play action games, not strategy games...
protoss is bound to play defensive unless they allin, timingpush or do airharassment - there is simply no window to create "wow what impressive play" moments. Right, and that's why people don't recommend games where the Protoss wins. Because there are no "wow what impressive play" moments (except when San is involved, because he's a boss). It's just a few attacks failing utterly and then the Protoss rolling over their opponent. It may be skilful and strategic, but it sure as hell isn't fun to watch. I think this is exactly why people *do* recommend the Adelscott games. Rather than boring cololsus deathball stuff, he uses intelligently-managed upgraded gateway units to create advantageous positioning and then engages with it.
I've tried, oh I've tried to make that work against Zerg. Fact is, there's just too painful a timing window between when they get Hydras and you get HTs. As Protoss, you either have to go Colossus or hope they don't get Burrow Roaches or fast Hydras. If they do either, you're in a world of hurt. If you can pull off the HT mob, though, you're golden. Just keep expanding and engaging and you'll win no problem.
It works brilliantly against Terran, though. It almost seems unfair: I've got something like a 95% win ratio against Terran with this strategy.
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