On April 13 2011 04:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't get it.. have you all forgotten this is a strategy game?
Did you enjoy it when this happened?
Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.
It's not the same situation at all. Cheese isn't cheating. Handball goal is. White'ra played greedy every game, MC did what he needed to win. Cheese makes you look stupid when you lose, but it's a legitimate strategy to win. If white'ra did it everyone would be praising him right now.
100% agree, and I also would have killed that player when it happened (I was watching at home, cheering Ghana's great game on). So unfair, and totally exploitative and against the rules. IMO FIFA did not respond correctly, and the cheaters got rewarded for it.
That was not what MC did, MC deserved to win game 5 by responding to the weakness in Ra's build.
What an epic comeback by MC. Wow he is the best player in the world. It took huge balls to cheese in game 5 when 15k was on the line. He is the Kratoss Protoss!
Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.
Well said Halvorg. No offence Naz, I just think that both sides of this argument are represented well by this. MC did what he chose to to win and it worked and thats great, but I understand how one could be disappointed by that
The video show something that is illegal tactics. What did mc do that was illegal against the rule of the game?
Holy fuck did you just show me an example of cheating to compare the situations?
My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point. These situations are NOTHING alike. Trying to win and trying to win by cheating are two different worlds buddy.
Actually, it's not illegal. You get a red card and a penalty and that's it. In football if there is an attacker running alone and the last defender can't catch up, it's usually advisable to foul him. You get a red card, but they will just get a penalty kick. What he meant is that it's anti-climax I think, it would be "cheating" only if the ref hadn't seen it and even that would have been considered something you just have to use (as it can go both ways).
If it's not illegal then there would be no punishment for doing such acts. You basically proved that it was illegal. Just because the scope is limited to within the game and not always outside of the game(Red cards can affect participation in other games) you cannot say it's legal.
Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.
Well said Halvorg. No offence Naz, I just think that both sides of this argument are represented well by this. MC did what he chose to to win and it worked and thats great, but I understand how one could be disappointed by that
The video show something that is illegal tactics. What did mc do that was illegal against the rule of the game?
Holy fuck did you just show me an example of cheating to compare the situations?
My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point.
I quoted myself earlier in the thread to explain as i dont think people understood me. My point was that both endings were lame to watch, not that MC cheated. did your IQ rise a little again?
From the perspective of someone who doesn't watch much soccer, that 22 seconds was actually the most exciting 22 seconds of soccer I've ever seen in my life and the ending hand ball only left wanting to know what happened next. I don't get it.
On April 13 2011 04:41 hugman wrote: We need an MC anti-fanclub
qft
door's that way -->
if white ra had proxy gate'd you'd be spamming speshul taktiks / calling Ra a genius
Due to the persona MC has created for himself any game he wins make him have anti-fans, hes a B team MBC scrub somehow making it big in SC2 and people fall all over him. Its rage worthy.
HAHAHA implying B teamer is something to mock about. Probably still better than any foreigner in bw
Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.
Well said Halvorg. No offence Naz, I just think that both sides of this argument are represented well by this. MC did what he chose to to win and it worked and thats great, but I understand how one could be disappointed by that
The video show something that is illegal tactics. What did mc do that was illegal against the rule of the game?
Holy fuck did you just show me an example of cheating to compare the situations?
My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point.
I quoted myself earlier in the thread to explain as i dont think people understood me. My point was that both endings were lame to watch, not that MC cheated. did your IQ rise a little again?
Yeah, but they were both lame to watch for completely different reasons. Do you have any idea how to construct a proper argument? Like, with a premise, an inference, and a conclusion?
theres no reason to bash mc, whitera did a risky build every game(-1 zealot, +1 gate, 1minute late scout at the start) assuming mc wouldent do any early pressure while mc did the safest build every game.
i wish i could see multiple bases on each side in pvp but you need to blame the game not the player this time. before the sc2 expansion you wont see the best protoss doing macro builds regardless of who the best protoss happens to be. mc would have probably done even better if he just 4 gated every game but entertaining=much more likely to loose.
On April 13 2011 04:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't get it.. have you all forgotten this is a strategy game?
I didn't forget this. But I also listen when players like MC promise entertaining games. There is pride involved in the way you win as much as the win itself. My frustration comes from the lack of showmanship. I want to see their mid and late game PvP (does that even exist?!) and MC knows that while he won, he did not win how a God would win. He won like a mere mortal, reverting to cheesy 'strategic' play.
He gets the check, get gets the W. WhiteRa gets my respect though.
I dont get some of you guys..... Theres 15 grand on the line, you figure out the guys scouting super late, know if he does it again, you basically free win, and go home with that money, and you expect the guy to like FE or something, and go off 3 base to make you happy. Its a living for these guys too. If you figure out a STRATEGy in a STRATEGY game that will allow you to win, especially for a large chunk of cash, you do it!
I think its a ballsy ass move doing that. Its the last game of a tournament for 15 grand and you proxy 2 gates into the guys base. he scouts inside at all and you lose. Not to mention havent all you whiners noticed that the PvP metagame is based around 1 basing atm. Sheesh.
White-Ra played awesome, MC came out on top, gratz to him!
Totally Agree...players should do whatever it takes to win, do you think players get paid to play entertaining games? no, they get paid to win and MC did that.
On April 13 2011 04:44 pak150 wrote: Have you forgotten that by definition sports should be entertaining to watch? Unless you're an uber fan, that kind of stuff (and frankly, PvP in general) is not entertaining.
Incorrect. Sports should be played to win, hence there being a shitton of sports not on your main stream television because they are not all enjoyable to watch, but they are still enjoyable to play. There are only a dozen or so major sports on television whereas there are hundreds maybe thousands of sports in the world.
If you are not entertained by strategy games where people play to win then so be it. Don't come up with an imaginary statement of fact to justify your own opinions.
An you can win in more or less respectful ways. Nobody respects Italy when they play as lame as they possibly can in Soccer.
I agree, you win the thread. Awesome picture! Also, who cares what MC did, cheese or not. A win is a win.
Yeah, who the hell cares if the games are fun to watch? I, for one, am NOT entertained by 10 minute 1 base games. No matter who wins.
No serious competitor is going to rule out the use of viable strategys just to make the game more exciting to watch, PvP is what causes players to play like this, because the matchup rewards risky play, dot hate the player, hate the game(I don't hate either).
Just have to understand that in general people correlate great games = length of the game. It isn't always that way, but anytime I look at the "recommended games" poll, I can basically tell how long the game lasted. If it is overwhelmingly no, game lasted less than 10 minutes, if its even maybe 10-12 minutes, and if it is a yes usually means the game went 15 minutes+.
I've learned to appreciate and enjoy short games as much as long games. To often I think people make up their mind even if a game is exciting or shows great micro that if it is a short game it is a bad game. But that is just the mentality, there is no sense arguing it, it isn't going to change overnight.
Well now im a really sad panda.... but gratz to MC for having the nuts ..... gratz to white-ra for being the biggest baller on earth and gratz to dreamhack for hosting one of the best (the best??) Sc2 tournament so far. Just sad that the last game was a little .......well.....not what i would have expected....
On April 13 2011 04:44 pak150 wrote: Have you forgotten that by definition sports should be entertaining to watch? Unless you're an uber fan, that kind of stuff (and frankly, PvP in general) is not entertaining.
Incorrect. Sports should be played to win, hence there being a shitton of sports not on your main stream television because they are not all enjoyable to watch, but they are still enjoyable to play. There are only a dozen or so major sports on television whereas there are hundreds maybe thousands of sports in the world.
If you are not entertained by strategy games where people play to win then so be it. Don't come up with an imaginary statement of fact to justify your own opinions.
And if Starcraft ll tournament finals continue to be like this, it will go the way of one of the "hundreds maybe thousands of sports", and professional Starcraft ll gaming will disappear incredibly quickly thanks to absolutely no interest.
Props for sticking to your guns, but this kind of play is not healthy to Starcraft ll E-sport growth, and if the meta-game doesn't change, or if Blizzard doesn't patch something, I feel we'll soon be saying goodbye to professional Starcraft ll gaming.
What's healthy is White-Ra scouting properly instead of not knowing the spawn positions on the map. He could've scouted after pylon OR at least not scouted a position MC could not spawn in, wtf?
What's not healthy is telling players to only do entertaining strategies and create drama and "epic games" just because it entertains fans. It'd be horrible for ESPORTS if they used your philosophy, because then we might as well have scripted Mothership vs Mothership max out battles then.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZLIvu.jpg)
