On April 13 2011 04:44 pak150 wrote: Have you forgotten that by definition sports should be entertaining to watch? Unless you're an uber fan, that kind of stuff (and frankly, PvP in general) is not entertaining.
Incorrect. Sports should be played to win, hence there being a shitton of sports not on your main stream television because they are not all enjoyable to watch, but they are still enjoyable to play. There are only a dozen or so major sports on television whereas there are hundreds maybe thousands of sports in the world.
If you are not entertained by strategy games where people play to win then so be it. Don't come up with an imaginary statement of fact to justify your own opinions.
Maybe you just shouldn't watch Esports if you have zero appreciation for the best strategies winning just because it doesn't involve 200 units with shiny graphics. What I say today was a battle of minds and MC clearly came ahead by being the most unpredictable and well rounded player. As such I'm impressed and I don't need to see 5 games of colossus wars for that to be the case.
wow amazing post! this is exactly what I thought, but I would never had the writting skills to do it! lol
I hope some people just shut up and stop bringing retarded arguments after reading this...
Big props to dreamhack, 2gd (u so handsome and funny - no homo) and the commentators (demuslim is sick good), was very pleasant to follow this great event.
On April 13 2011 04:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't get it.. have you all forgotten this is a strategy game?
Did you enjoy it when this happened?
Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.
Well said Halvorg. No offence Naz, I just think that both sides of this argument are represented well by this. MC did what he chose to to win and it worked and thats great, but I understand how one could be disappointed by that
The video show something that is illegal tactics. What did mc do that was illegal against the rule of the game?
Holy fuck did you just show me an example of cheating to compare the situations?
My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point. These situations are NOTHING alike. Trying to win and trying to win by cheating are two different worlds buddy.
Actually, it's not illegal. You get a red card and a penalty and that's it. In football if there is an attacker running alone and the last defender can't catch up, it's usually advisable to foul him. You get a red card, but they will just get a penalty kick. What he meant is that it's anti-climax I think, it would be "cheating" only if the ref hadn't seen it and even that would have been considered something you just have to use (as it can go both ways).
On April 13 2011 04:47 ReacH. wrote: How can people say that it was good strategy for MC to cheese? It was a coin flip, and it proves nothing about his skill.
It wasn't really a coinflip when he had clearly read how WhiteRa was playing from both these and earlier series. He saw time and again that WhiteRa was fairly greedy with economy and never got a fast zealot. I doubt WhiteRa could have held that attack even if he had scouted it once he skipped that first zealot.
Exactly. WhiteRa was using the 3stalker build quite often in this series, and in his PvPs in general. MC decided to capitalize on WR's tendency to go for that build, since it omits the early Zealot.
In a game before that Ra scouted his main with probe. In last one he didn't. Probably thought it's a 4player map(thinking back to his probe scouting pattern) :|.
It was a disappointing last game but some people can't see the forest for the trees. How do you define the most skilled player in a game? The one who is best at winning.
Anything else is an imperfect approximation of skill. Variance means that a single game or a single series could produce results where the better player loses, but that's a question of sample size not style.
I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, but MC scouted his base on Xelnaga in game4 for the proxy gate cheese, after his 9pylon before sending it out. It's greedy to never scout your base, and to skip your first zealot in EVERY game. Sad that Ra lost, but omg that finals was extremely entertaining. How could your heart not be beating really fast when the proxy was going on? I like seeing these two going at it. 6-3 overall in MC's favor now, can't wait for their next matchup.
On April 13 2011 04:44 pak150 wrote: Have you forgotten that by definition sports should be entertaining to watch? Unless you're an uber fan, that kind of stuff (and frankly, PvP in general) is not entertaining.
Incorrect. Sports should be played to win, hence there being a shitton of sports not on your main stream television because they are not all enjoyable to watch, but they are still enjoyable to play. There are only a dozen or so major sports on television whereas there are hundreds maybe thousands of sports in the world.
If you are not entertained by strategy games where people play to win then so be it. Don't come up with an imaginary statement of fact to justify your own opinions.
And if Starcraft ll tournament finals continue to be like this, it will go the way of one of the "hundreds maybe thousands of sports", and professional Starcraft ll gaming will disappear incredibly quickly thanks to absolutely no interest.
Props for sticking to your guns, but this kind of play is not healthy to Starcraft ll E-sport growth, and if the meta-game doesn't change, or if Blizzard doesn't patch something, I feel we'll soon be saying goodbye to professional Starcraft ll gaming.
What's healthy is White-Ra scouting properly instead of not knowing the spawn positions on the map. He could've scouted after pylon OR at least not scouted a position MC could not spawn in, wtf?
What's not healthy is telling players to only do entertaining strategies and create drama and "epic games" just because it entertains fans. It'd be horrible for ESPORTS if they used your philosophy, because then we might as well have scripted Mothership vs Mothership max out battles then.
Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.
Well said Halvorg. No offence Naz, I just think that both sides of this argument are represented well by this. MC did what he chose to to win and it worked and thats great, but I understand how one could be disappointed by that
The video show something that is illegal tactics. What did mc do that was illegal against the rule of the game?
Holy fuck did you just show me an example of cheating to compare the situations?
My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point.
I quoted myself earlier in the thread to explain as i dont think people understood me. My point was that both endings were lame to watch, not that MC cheated. did your IQ rise a little again?
I think his IQ just dropped even further because of your reasoning!
Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.
Well said Halvorg. No offence Naz, I just think that both sides of this argument are represented well by this. MC did what he chose to to win and it worked and thats great, but I understand how one could be disappointed by that
The video show something that is illegal tactics. What did mc do that was illegal against the rule of the game?
Holy fuck did you just show me an example of cheating to compare the situations?
My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point.
I quoted myself earlier in the thread to explain as i dont think people understood me. My point was that both endings were lame to watch, not that MC cheated. did your IQ rise a little again?
even if you add 100 to your iq you still will be dumb ass hell. My points you use a bad example to compare.
I really wanted White Ra to win that game...I was on the edge of my seat when he won the first two games. It really sucks that he lost, but I guess if you're going to lose a PvP...losing to MC is the way to do it. White Ra played well and so did MC.
I think though, that if White Ra had not gotten supply blocked in the Xel Naga Caverns game, he would've held the blink push. 3 more units and possibly a second immortal would've made a sizable difference.
To everyone else, quit hating on MC, he won because he's damn good, simple as at that, White Ra is damn good as well and that's why the series was close. MC plays very well, and while his style may be a bit aggressive he's proven time and again he can out play people in macro games as well. Which he did today against IdrA. White Ra also played some good Starcraft and he can hold his head up high knowing he nearly demolished MC and proved himself before the world.
Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.
Well said Halvorg. No offence Naz, I just think that both sides of this argument are represented well by this. MC did what he chose to to win and it worked and thats great, but I understand how one could be disappointed by that
The video show something that is illegal tactics. What did mc do that was illegal against the rule of the game?
Holy fuck did you just show me an example of cheating to compare the situations?
My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point. These situations are NOTHING alike. Trying to win and trying to win by cheating are two different worlds buddy.
Actually, it's not illegal. You get a red card and a penalty and that's it. In football if there is an attacker running alone and the last defender can't catch up, it's usually advisable to foul him. You get a red card, but they will just get a penalty kick. What he meant is that it's anti-climax I think, it would be "cheating" only if the ref hadn't seen it and even that would have been considered something you just have to use (as it can go both ways).
What's illegal then ? What brings out the police ?
You realize theres been noone actually complaining about cheese for the past 20 pages or something? Maybe 1-2 guys. But obviously thats not the point
People were disappointed WhiteRa lost. It has nothing to do with MC or how MC played. Some of the responses that have been posted are complete overreactions.
On April 13 2011 04:44 pak150 wrote: Have you forgotten that by definition sports should be entertaining to watch? Unless you're an uber fan, that kind of stuff (and frankly, PvP in general) is not entertaining.
Incorrect. Sports should be played to win, hence there being a shitton of sports not on your main stream television because they are not all enjoyable to watch, but they are still enjoyable to play. There are only a dozen or so major sports on television whereas there are hundreds maybe thousands of sports in the world.
If you are not entertained by strategy games where people play to win then so be it. Don't come up with an imaginary statement of fact to justify your own opinions.
Maybe you just shouldn't watch Esports if you have zero appreciation for the best strategies winning just because it doesn't involve 200 units with shiny graphics. What I say today was a battle of minds and MC clearly came ahead by being the most unpredictable and well rounded player. As such I'm impressed and I don't need to see 5 games of colossus wars for that to be the case.
Amen, top that off with the fact that they are playing to make a living out of it. They dont play to entertain they play to win !
EPT
. Its quite surprising the lack of UK representation rofl.
