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Dreamhack Invitational - Page 569

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
April 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#11361
The only reason epic long macro games are epic is because we know players are trying to win 100%. If we're ever at a point where players are just playing to entertain fans and not to win, then SC2 as an ESPORT will definitely fail. Everyone needs to stop killing MC and recognize that he did something that was very smart given the way the map was and how he saw WR play in the earlier games. Not to mention this is something that is definitely not a sure win.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Decophly
Profile Joined January 2011
Norway5 Posts
April 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#11362
Great production results in a wonderful tournament. This is the future for esports, and it's all because of you - the fans and the players of the Starcraft 2 community. This is something a game like Counter Strike will never have, because there is so much rivalries between community-sites, tournaments and teams. In SC2 you got people who loves the game and the professional players so much, that it dosent matter which team, tournament or country the games are played in.

Thanks SC2 community for starting revolution within esports, and bringing it to the next level!
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
April 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#11363
On April 13 2011 04:59 Dandel Ion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 04:57 Hot_Bid wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:54 Grimjim wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:44 pak150 wrote:
Have you forgotten that by definition sports should be entertaining to watch? Unless you're an uber fan, that kind of stuff (and frankly, PvP in general) is not entertaining.

Incorrect. Sports should be played to win, hence there being a shitton of sports not on your main stream television because they are not all enjoyable to watch, but they are still enjoyable to play. There are only a dozen or so major sports on television whereas there are hundreds maybe thousands of sports in the world.

If you are not entertained by strategy games where people play to win then so be it. Don't come up with an imaginary statement of fact to justify your own opinions.


And if Starcraft ll tournament finals continue to be like this, it will go the way of one of the "hundreds maybe thousands of sports", and professional Starcraft ll gaming will disappear incredibly quickly thanks to absolutely no interest.

Props for sticking to your guns, but this kind of play is not healthy to Starcraft ll E-sport growth, and if the meta-game doesn't change, or if Blizzard doesn't patch something, I feel we'll soon be saying goodbye to professional Starcraft ll gaming.

What's healthy is White-Ra scouting properly instead of not knowing the spawn positions on the map. He could've scouted after pylon OR at least not scouted a position MC could not spawn in, wtf?

What's not healthy is telling players to only do entertaining strategies and create drama and "epic games" just because it entertains fans. It'd be horrible for ESPORTS if they used your philosophy, because then we might as well have scripted Mothership vs Mothership max out battles then.


I take it you don't like wrestling?



Wrestling isn't a sport, it's just an entertainment show.

You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
MisterTea
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1047 Posts
April 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#11364
On April 13 2011 04:58 Teacher74 wrote:
How did MC know that whitera was in that position without scouting the bottom position?

because it's the only position u can spawn in maybe ???

seriously learn the maps they use in tournament play lol
Jampackedeon
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2053 Posts
April 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#11365
On April 13 2011 04:57 wshm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 04:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:51 lazyfeet wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:49 TheDougler wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:44 halvorg wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get it.. have you all forgotten this is a strategy game?


Did you enjoy it when this happened?


Really, people have a right to be upset if we are robbed of a great finish yeah? But MC won grats to him.


Well said Halvorg. No offence Naz, I just think that both sides of this argument are represented well by this. MC did what he chose to to win and it worked and thats great, but I understand how one could be disappointed by that

The video show something that is illegal tactics. What did mc do that was illegal against the rule of the game?

Holy fuck did you just show me an example of cheating to compare the situations?

My IQ just dropped to 50 trying to understand your point. These situations are NOTHING alike. Trying to win and trying to win by cheating are two different worlds buddy.

Actually, it's not illegal.
You get a red card and a penalty and that's it. In football if there is an attacker running alone and the last defender can't catch up, it's usually advisable to foul him. You get a red card, but they will just get a penalty kick. What he meant is that it's anti-climax I think, it would be "cheating" only if the ref hadn't seen it and even that would have been considered something you just have to use (as it can go both ways).


Actually, it is illegal. That is why there is a punishment for it. Now, whether you think the punishment is appropriate in response to the foul is another thing, I think FIFA is wrong to make a handball on the goal line worth a free kick. Especially when the ball was clearly going in. The fact that it results in a red card does not mean it isn't illegal. That's just like saying because I get life in prison for killing someone that the killing was not illegal.
Jnai
Profile Joined September 2010
United States442 Posts
April 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#11366
You play to win the game:


Grats to MC, great play.
Sprungjeezy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1313 Posts
April 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#11367
White-Ra took too many risks over and over and if you want to continue to argue about the final set, then why do you ignore the 3rd and 4th set? Where MC clearly outplayed him with the same builds, not to mention White-Ra only won the first game because MC let the probe live (admittedly a mistake on MC's part) but obviously White-Ra was punished for letting MC's probe into his base as well. Better scouting and White-Ra would have won.

I loved the first 2 matches because White-Ra won, and loved the rest of the finals because they were both playing well and it was very close. And thats what I wanted to see. GG.
AzurewinD
Profile Joined November 2010
United States569 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 20:03:20
April 12 2011 20:00 GMT
#11368
On April 13 2011 04:45 Grimjim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 04:43 aristarchus wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get it.. have you all forgotten this is a strategy game?


Yeah... win for this comment. Anyone who doesn't cheese when it actually is the best strategy is being dumb.


For a game attempting to become the next E-sport phenomenon, it's going to lose fans extremely quickly if future finals are going to look like this.


This argument has more holes than swiss cheese.

The finals as a whole were exciting. We saw a 3-2 comeback. You're talking as it we saw a 3-0 where MC DT rushed, Cannon rushed, and 4 gated. Not the case.

If fans are lost over the fact that MC spotted a weakness and exploited it (also known as making a strategic decision) then with all due respect, good riddance to those fans. There's nothing you can do about that short of raping the game with rules like "No rush till 10 min kk?"

Starcraft 2 is a strategy game. It is NOT professional wrestling where every match is purposely rigged to be entertaining. Maybe someone will eventually come along and create a league where star players are invited to choreograph entire matches that feature outlandish shit like immortal drops, ultralisk nydus harassment, archon rushes, or carrier tech with the end goal of that each match is guaranteed to be long and exciting. Ultimately however, that isn't Starcraft 2 and that certainly isn't E-sports.
"...I want more people to be in that state more often, to see things not through the limited and rigid mind or the fearful ego, but through a heart that loves to express and create" - Xiaonan "Glider" Sun
archflames
Profile Joined September 2010
Mexico204 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11369
i'd be interested to know what kind of Shakuras plateu both players thought it was
cuz if i remember correctly MC went straight for the cross positions and whitera didn't
Beware the rage of a patient man
Mephiztopheles1
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
1124 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11370
On April 13 2011 04:49 Funkatron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 04:46 Mellon wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't get it.. have you all forgotten this is a strategy game?


No, but some people want to be entertained obviously. It's not entertaining to watch the last game ending before any real skirmish. I don't think anyone claimed (atleast you shouldn't) that MC did a strategic bad move. He read White-ra properly, he knows he's not scouting properly and is blind-expecting a 4-gate without even scouting with his 9 probe. MC definately outplayed him, no discussion there, but he's never gonna be the fans favourite, at least he's not my.

The fans will never enjoy watching "cheese" games as much as they'll enjoy macro games. I don't get it.. have you forgotten people want to be entertained?

It was pretty entertaining. Tell me you weren't on the edge of your seat when white ra's probe went out to scout.
IMO games where the players sit around and build armies for 30 minutes without attacking are more boring.

I wasn't, the guy you answered to probably wasn't, and you could tell from the crowd cheering that most of them weren't. So, I'm curious what game exactly was it like a "30 minute no action game?" It's PvP, no chance in hell it'll ever be that. It's just a very anti-climatic finish to an awesome tournament. If you will, it was the fact that White-Ra going 2-0 was very exciting, seeing MC win game 3 was somewhat 'meh' since it was just 4gate wars, the fourth game was the usual blink>3gate robo shennanigans to finish it up with a 2gate proxy. The problem (besides being PvP) was the fact that all the build up from the first two games was completely destroyed by the last three. Nothing to take away from MC from a player's perspective, but as a viewer, it was a highly anti-climatic finish. Much cooler to at least see the yawning colossus wars than a cheese.
Ohnoes92
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden76 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11371
Does anyone know where the "party" that has been mentioned is taking place? :D (and if there even is one?)
Ohai!
zevered
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada31 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11372
Soccer is plagued by terrible officiating, poor sportsmen and cheaters. Can we not compare Starcraft to it please?
evoli
Profile Joined May 2010
United States333 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11373
I was definitely rooting for White-ra, but you have to give credit where credit is due. MC managed to come back from an 0/2 deficit and snag the win. It did suck that the last game was over so quickly, but with $15K USD on the line you're going to do what you need to win.

The tournament, overall, was fantastic. Wish there were more like it.
General Manager for EG // twitter.com/gosutrolling
godemperor
Profile Joined October 2010
Belgium2043 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11374
On April 13 2011 04:57 ELA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 04:55 coddan wrote:
Sucks to be NASL, they can't possibly be even close to this. I'm completely blown away by Dreamhack


Wow, yeah forgot NASL launch is tonight.. Pretty unfortunate for them to launch same day as the most well produced and epic tournament is played..

I hope people won't give them a too rough time doing these lame comparisons

Shut up guys we should not think this way. We should think, after this brilliant tournament, we will have another pretty good one. So excited for the future.
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 20:02:04
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11375
On April 13 2011 04:57 PantsB wrote:
It was a disappointing last game but some people can't see the forest for the trees. How do you define the most skilled player in a game? The one who is best at winning.



Anything else is an imperfect approximation of skill. Variance means that a single game or a single series could produce results where the better player loses, but that's a question of sample size not style.



That video pretty much sums up what I'm thinking everytime I see this kind of discussion.
If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
Yenticha
Profile Joined July 2010
257 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11376
Did MC scout top left before throwing down his pylon? I missed the details of MC's scouting (without getting his scouts spotted), but it felt kinda lucky..

Greedy play by white ra anyways..
Thurokiir
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 20:03:05
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11377
On April 13 2011 04:55 bmml wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 04:52 zevered wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:50 Argelia wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:41 hugman wrote:
We need an MC anti-fanclub


qft


door's that way -->

if white ra had proxy gate'd you'd be spamming speshul taktiks / calling Ra a genius


Due to the persona MC has created for himself any game he wins make him have anti-fans, hes a B team MBC scrub somehow making it big in SC2 and people fall all over him. Its rage worthy.


he had the same problem on MBC as he did when sc2 started, he was godly in practice but on stage he suicided constantly, note that he failed miserably the first seasons of sc2, it's not rage worthy hes finally playing at the level he was always at in public vs private, enough raging haha.
Tahts halo dont worry
darksage78
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada243 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11378
On April 13 2011 04:59 Nynn wrote:
This tournament was so awesome.
Really the best SC2 Tournament ever.

Coverage was very good, no big breaks between the games, of course very nice matches and so on.

Loved it!

Yeah, barely even had a time to go grab a bite from the kitchen! It was the first European event I've ever watched and I was thoroughly entertained. I think you guys are really onto something with the level of production and the quality was simply superb. Definitely has its own unique flavour which helps make it stand out across the global SC2 scene.
@KakitDesign on Twitter | Graphic Artist for : z33k.com / Collegiate Starleague / FXOpen
whowahuh
Profile Joined October 2010
United States184 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11379
On April 13 2011 05:00 Ohdamn wrote:
------------------------------ Warning: This post actually contains important information! ------------------------------

for everyone who missed it:

there are already some VoDs of this event..the rest is going to be added soon i guess

just go to the justintv stream and scroll down to see the VoDs

http://www.justin.tv/dreamhacktv

------------------------------ Warning: This post actually contains important information! ------------------------------


The fact that they already have VODs uploaded and soon to be completely uploaded really proves how BOSS these guys are at running a tournament. Hats off to the staff at Dreamhack. MLG, take notes pl0x.
Ocedic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1808 Posts
April 12 2011 20:01 GMT
#11380
On April 13 2011 04:58 hugman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 04:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
On April 13 2011 04:44 pak150 wrote:
Have you forgotten that by definition sports should be entertaining to watch? Unless you're an uber fan, that kind of stuff (and frankly, PvP in general) is not entertaining.

Incorrect. Sports should be played to win, hence there being a shitton of sports not on your main stream television because they are not all enjoyable to watch, but they are still enjoyable to play. There are only a dozen or so major sports on television whereas there are hundreds maybe thousands of sports in the world.

If you are not entertained by strategy games where people play to win then so be it. Don't come up with an imaginary statement of fact to justify your own opinions.

An you can win in more or less respectful ways.
Nobody respects Italy when they play as lame as they possibly can in Soccer.


Win in more respectful ways? Are they having a samurai battle?
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