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Dreamhack Invitational - Page 336

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Coolwhip
Profile Joined March 2011
927 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6701
I like Idra's bad boi image. But this giving up starts to get boring.

Come on dude, in the end you are getting paid by the viewers. Watching you throw away a game because you are nerdraging isn't fun to watch.
Lush
Profile Joined May 2010
United States657 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6702
On April 13 2011 02:44 iNcontroL wrote:
uhhhhhhhhhhh

IdrA throws away 3-4 queens a few ovies and some drones vs a phoenix opening... has MC on the ropes but then stops attacking...

IdrA gets 7 bl's and sticks his army in a choke spot and dies easily "PVZ IMBALANCED!"

MC had 0 defenses at both his 3rd/4th. IdrA took a late 4th / never corrupted after killing the Collo in the first fight and didn't scout expansions. Late on infesters as well. Had he waited for infesters and massed some bl's while harrassing the expos with lings or something he'd be fine and that is ONLY after him NOT throwing 4 base of production into 2 collo (idra had corruptors out) and 5 stalkers...

The thing that pisses me off the most though is that OK so you make a mistake at the end and it costs you the game.. why give up on game 2? You had him on the ropes like 3 separate times EVEN IF you want to argue "I can't win!" you at least came REALLY REALLY close vs the best fucking protoss on the planet... what more do you want? Give game 2 a try jesus


While I respect you immensely as a player and what you do for the community, I gotta disagree with you a bit here. Well not disagree, as idra definitely played it wrong. But the correct play is still so difficult to pull off. I just feel as maybe you don't have a complete perspective on the matter

Sure, he attack in a choke. Metal is basically a giant choke, there wasn't really any other options. He could've positioned a bit better, but I still think with MCs insane micro, it hard to idras to come out on top with those two army comps.

Maybe you have played zerg and know how they feel late game, and I know you're worlds better than I'll ever be, but imo, zerg late game is incredibly difficult. Roachs get murdered by stalkers/collsus, as do hydras. If you kill of collosus with corruptors you have a dozen worthless units or 24 supply of shit (2 supply corruptor i think, im that bad that I don't know for sure)

I do know what you're saying about game 2 though. It's possible to beat protoss, and he came really close.
"you play that nerdy game?"
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6703
On April 13 2011 02:47 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 02:44 iNcontroL wrote:
uhhhhhhhhhhh

IdrA throws away 3-4 queens a few ovies and some drones vs a phoenix opening... has MC on the ropes but then stops attacking...

IdrA gets 7 bl's and sticks his army in a choke spot and dies easily "PVZ IMBALANCED!"

MC had 0 defenses at both his 3rd/4th. IdrA took a late 4th / never corrupted after killing the Collo in the first fight and didn't scout expansions. Late on infesters as well. Had he waited for infesters and massed some bl's while harrassing the expos with lings or something he'd be fine and that is ONLY after him NOT throwing 4 base of production into 2 collo (idra had corruptors out) and 5 stalkers...

The thing that pisses me off the most though is that OK so you make a mistake at the end and it costs you the game.. why give up on game 2? You had him on the ropes like 3 separate times EVEN IF you want to argue "I can't win!" you at least came REALLY REALLY close vs the best fucking protoss on the planet... what more do you want? Give game 2 a try jesus


Maybe you should actually play a game from a zergs perspective. I'm getting so tired of protoss players, pros or not, throwing their opinion around when they have never actually expierenced it

His Zerg is really good and he definitely has experience
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Rayansaki
Profile Joined January 2011
Portugal1266 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6704

On April 13 2011 02:41 00Visor wrote:
Very nice production. I hope MLG watches this.


While it's true that DH production is flawless and is going as good as it can, let's not forget the massive difference in size. MLG is more prone to delays and lag because it's playing 50 times more matches at the same time.
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: IMNestea (Death), IMLosirA (Famine), IMmvp (War), IMFenix (Conquest)
DamnCats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1472 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6705
Dreamhack obviously needs more SPANISHIWA!!! Actually then he'd get crushed by MC too and all my hopes and dreams would be shattered :[ OR WOULD HE?
Disciples of a god, that neither lives nor breathes.
GwSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1997 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6706
On April 13 2011 02:52 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 02:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On April 13 2011 02:40 ImHuko wrote:
On April 13 2011 02:38 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
don't let idra be a fucking martyr. this is ridiculous. he gave up. i've done it. he's done it before. many other people have done it. he just gave up before it was over. he didn't prove any point. don't let him be a fucking zvp martyr.

Only the protoss are arguing against it, he isn't a martyr, he literally can not win. Like I said before, MC said he will never lose to a zerg, unless they nerf. When the best protoss player literally says I like the nerfs because I want to win fairly, you have to believe it.

if you cant see how idra could have won game 1, you are lost

The point is, IdrA made almost the entire mid game, attacking at the right time with superior force, high supply advantage. He was also the one taking the risk in early game taking a fast third, droning constantly and taking the damage against that air harassment.
It's good to point out the weakness of IdrA's play, to point out what he could have done better, but come on, you know he was way better than MC in this game.


Still deserved to lose the game. You can't downplay the significance of that mistake with the broodlords. Would people say a Protoss player still deserved to win if they separated 5 Colossi from their army next to a pile of corrupters and lost them?
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6707
On April 13 2011 02:53 DestroManiak wrote:
Show nested quote +

----
will there be a white ra game soon?
---

quoted posts are read more often


first post should be read most often.

try it.
Kevmeister @ Dota2
SetStndbySmn
Profile Joined August 2010
United States657 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 17:56:04
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6708
On April 13 2011 02:47 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 02:44 iNcontroL wrote:
uhhhhhhhhhhh

IdrA throws away 3-4 queens a few ovies and some drones vs a phoenix opening... has MC on the ropes but then stops attacking...

IdrA gets 7 bl's and sticks his army in a choke spot and dies easily "PVZ IMBALANCED!"

MC had 0 defenses at both his 3rd/4th. IdrA took a late 4th / never corrupted after killing the Collo in the first fight and didn't scout expansions. Late on infesters as well. Had he waited for infesters and massed some bl's while harrassing the expos with lings or something he'd be fine and that is ONLY after him NOT throwing 4 base of production into 2 collo (idra had corruptors out) and 5 stalkers...

The thing that pisses me off the most though is that OK so you make a mistake at the end and it costs you the game.. why give up on game 2? You had him on the ropes like 3 separate times EVEN IF you want to argue "I can't win!" you at least came REALLY REALLY close vs the best fucking protoss on the planet... what more do you want? Give game 2 a try jesus


Maybe you should actually play a game from a zergs perspective. I'm getting so tired of protoss players, pros or not, throwing their opinion around when they have never actually expierenced it


I've seen him play as zerg and coach zerg players before. He seemed to 'get it'. You probably have a super power that allows you to instantaneously know what people do with their time though, so you're most likely right.
"He doesn't operate under some divine shroud that lets him determine what is or is not valid culture. He cannot rob you, retroactively, of wholly valid experiences; he cannot transform them into worthless things." - Tycho
ihavetofartosis
Profile Joined January 2011
1277 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6709
On April 13 2011 02:47 Sqq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 02:45 kNightLite wrote:
On April 13 2011 02:38 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
don't let idra be a fucking martyr. this is ridiculous. he gave up. i've done it. he's done it before. many other people have done it. he just gave up before it was over. he didn't prove any point. don't let him be a fucking zvp martyr.


QFT.

Idra totally had game 1 in the bag but then botched it with terrible BL placement, and then made the horrible decision to throw hands down a corridor into storm+collosus with 0 corruptor support. That wasnt zvp imbalance, that was bad decision making. Which was especially dissappointing given how well he held off the phoenix harass.

And then 6-pooling in game 2...thats just sad. Theres no way that a 2-time gsl champion is going to lose to a 6-pool.

Idra's defeatist attitude defeated himself.


MC had starports finished and would start cranking out Voidrays. IdrA was so far ahead in the first match but couldn't engange at all. Isn't something flawed when a race can stay so passive and so far behind economically and still win ? He lost his BLs fine, he would have lost with or without losing those. Storms, and collo vs 50% of his army ? What was he suppose to do.

Yep, it's true. IdrA may have been ahead, but there's NO way he could have gone on the offensive with his hydras off creep, they are so slow forcefields would have destroyed him.

I don't understand why people don't understand this.
FisHKinG
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands89 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6710
The live report thread was good till Idra lost
Hut
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway77 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6711
OHhhhh Get_right on stream.
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6712
Sjow has a chance vs MC. White-Ra does not.
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6713
You cannot make a single mistake as zerg. There are so much more things you need to do constantly than with Protoss. The mechanics, worker control, army composition, position, macro, is all ten times harder as Zerg. If you screw up one of them, a top Protoss will roll you.
Dead girls don't say no.
Hypatio
Profile Joined September 2010
549 Posts
April 12 2011 17:55 GMT
#6714
On April 13 2011 02:52 najreteip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 02:50 Hypatio wrote:
On April 13 2011 02:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On April 13 2011 02:40 ImHuko wrote:
On April 13 2011 02:38 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
don't let idra be a fucking martyr. this is ridiculous. he gave up. i've done it. he's done it before. many other people have done it. he just gave up before it was over. he didn't prove any point. don't let him be a fucking zvp martyr.

Only the protoss are arguing against it, he isn't a martyr, he literally can not win. Like I said before, MC said he will never lose to a zerg, unless they nerf. When the best protoss player literally says I like the nerfs because I want to win fairly, you have to believe it.

if you cant see how idra could have won game 1, you are lost

There probably wasn't a point in the game where IdrA could have turned the tide unless he went mass roach instead of hydra. Hydra+blord is just too slow to effectively combat blink stalkers+HT off creep and MC didn't make the huge mistake of going far onto IdrA's creep. The only thing that would have significantly changed the late game of that match was pooling resources/larva for a rapid post-battle reinforcement or many more blords, but none of that is certain given MC's excellent decision making.

Obviously his failed 6 pool was giving the series to MC.

I think he could've killed mc's third

That would have been an even worse decision because he did not have creep extended on that side of the map. Blink stalkers are way better than hydras off creep so he would have had to go much harder on roach or waited longer in the game to get more brood lords. IdrA was playing well in the game because he kept the colossus count low, but hydras simply cannot do the job and lords are useless vs. blink stalkers without perfect positioning or high numbers.
Ryhn
Profile Joined February 2010
United States509 Posts
April 12 2011 17:56 GMT
#6715
Anyone know when the next game begins? I've looked, but seem to be missing something >:
Famous Books Written by Progamers - "Clam: Mastering your other self"
Beyonder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands15103 Posts
April 12 2011 17:56 GMT
#6716
This one goes out to all the ravers in the nation! OMG, REPRESENT! Hahaha awesome music <3 <3
Moderator
Samhax
Profile Joined August 2010
1054 Posts
April 12 2011 17:56 GMT
#6717
On April 13 2011 02:51 Dragar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 02:50 Samhax wrote:
Sorry but Idra have a really bad mindset. When you actually think you can't win ZvP just because of imbalance, you are going basically to lose. If Fruitdealer in season1 or MC in season 3 had this mindset and waited blizzard to patch the game, they would never win.

Idra you can continue to think negative, throw games over and over and wait to blizzard to the rescue. Or you can change your mindset and try to take every small chances you have to win games. It's up to you.


You don't recall Fruit sixpooling in the semi-finals then?


I'm not talking about the 6 pool, i'm talking about his mindset. He act like he can't never win in ZvP, and then he tilt hard. Sorry but 6 pool in xnc is bad choice, there are many cheeses in this map way more effective (like roach/speedlings with low eco). He tilted in this game because of his mindset i can't win in normal game blabla let's throw away this game with a 6pool.
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 17:56:28
April 12 2011 17:56 GMT
#6718
On April 13 2011 02:50 Steamroller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 02:45 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On April 13 2011 02:43 oo inflame oo wrote:
On April 13 2011 02:38 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
don't let idra be a fucking martyr. this is ridiculous. he gave up. i've done it. he's done it before. many other people have done it. he just gave up before it was over. he didn't prove any point. don't let him be a fucking zvp martyr.


what else is he supposed to do?

his job


Funny, anyone else giving this kind of answers would get banned.

it's the truth really, he's under contract and getting paid to play this game. It's a job and idra wasnt treating it as such in game2 on xelnaga if indeed it actually was out of spite that he cheesed. Imho I dont know what to say about him cheesing but whatever.
Do you really want chat rooms?
Novalisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Israel1818 Posts
April 12 2011 17:56 GMT
#6719
I just hope IdrA finds some kind of inspiration/motivation because his lack of positive passion concerns me.
/commercial
Gamgee
Profile Joined August 2010
United States135 Posts
April 12 2011 17:56 GMT
#6720
I'm not one to get into balance discussions, so I don't have too much to add... but I just wanted to point out, regardless of the position IdrA was in mid-game, once both armies were maxed out, that is generally nullified - it's then all about tactics, army composition, upgrades. Upgrades were even from what I saw, army composition was even from what I saw (Hydras > Blink Stalkers > Brood Lords > Colossi/HT > Hydras), but the tactics (positioning) was not good on IdrA's part. I do kinda like the idea of sending 1-3 brood lords over that central area, knowing that your enemy only has blink stalkers and you have a small, narrow area where they can't hit you - but sending all brood lords and splitting up your entire army is never a good idea. Essentially, IdrA had the strongest anti-ground units of his army off harassing MC's economy, while MC was preparing to engage IdrA's split army.
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