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Tyler has basically said that MC is a good player, maybe the best for now, but he's not a great dominant player. He's also criticized MC's style as being too risky, and that's related to Tyler's opinion that MC isn't as good as many others think. Now this is Tyler's opinion, but it seems inControl generally agrees. It's perfectly fair for TLers to criticize or ignore Tyler opinions. No one thinks MC is an average or bad player, so it's basically a conversation about where MC rates as a player from very good to potential bonjwa.
I like watching WhiteRa play, and I personally don't care what he said to San or MC, since I'm not a fan of either, but it's pretty obvious BM. Especially considering how he's vocalized criticism that 4gating is a "no brain" strategy. I'm not sure why people act like he's something he's not. He's older than everyone, that doesn't make him the perfect representation of the good mannered player, as you may hear from commentators who've been around since his BW days. Maybe he was, but he hasn't been lately.
I really wanted to see Tyler v MC. However, Thorzain has looked really impressive, and I wouldn't be surprised if he beat MC, especially considering the logistics of the match.
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On April 10 2011 20:20 Logros wrote:
Ugh those White-Ra vs MC games showed just how bad the 3 stalker build is. I don't get why people are still insisting on using it. Your opponent can either hide a pylon and just kill you or tech up without any dangers of getting 4 gated because it's so easy to scout.
I agree. After getting used to dealing with it I won nearly every game against the build by using a second probe to build a pylon in a location close to his base and sandwiching the stalkers.
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Wow. Whitera 4gates MC in g2 and falls to a well executed robo build. In g3 MC 4gates and crushes a horrible Whitera and he complains about 4gate? Pot, meet kettle. 1 4gate out of 3 games from MC is hardly abusing it, he just outplayed Whitera every step of the way.
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Tyler's evaluation of other sc2-players has not been good anyways. He might dislike his style and I agree with that, but other than that I wouldn't put too much weigh into his opinion of MC.
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TL and TSL3 are great - the production value has been terrific and, while I know they are using replays, after MLG it's really great to watch games as easily as I did today even if they weren't the most entertaining. Thank you TL for a great effort - seriously, the pokerstrategytsl3.com site is amazingly well done and one of the best community gaming sites I have seen.
That said (here's where I'm sure I get myself banned), I'm an older guy well beyond his gaming prime and have been playing SC since the days of Agent911 and there's just something about Tyler that rubs me really wrong. I only recently started watching the SotGs and almost everything he says is utterly ridiculous to me. He keeps bringing up the MC timing attack/risky play as some sort of flaw, yet what exactly did Tyler do in Game 2 today? An all-in, risky play where he forgets to expand? If the play style is flawed, then why did you try emulating it? Tyler never had any intention of playing a straight up game on that map and even the commentators stated as much.
He made a comment the last SotG that if "everything isn't perfect", he doesn't play well. I guess I'm just tired of the excuses for his poor play. People keep pointing to his 4th at MLG as some sort of proof that he belongs, but let's not make that field to be out to be anything special not to mention players like HuK and Sen have improved since then while Tyler hasn't shown any improvement. That plus the little comments about wanting to be sponsored by an alcoholic drink and "getting that ad revenue" just really irritate me - it's as if the business of SC might have become more important than the gameplay.
The final straw was the no beginning of game gg and the ragequits while the commentators incorrectly pointed out a lack of gl hf from MC in game 1 and people get all over other players for ragequitting and meanwhile Tyler either Alt+F4d, pulled the cable or just shut his machine off in game 3 (don't even try and tell me otherwise, that's what happened you know it, I know it, Tyler knows it).
I love TL and I'm glad I found it recently as opposed to just watching YouTube VODs, following ICCup, etc. Jinro is super nice to his viewers, HuK is extremely entertaining and I admire TLO for trying to be innovative and I'll root for Liquid in every series of every tournament ... but there's something about Tyler I'm having difficulty getting behind.
I'm prepared for the noob, I don't know what I'm talking about, QQ, T_T replies, it's just how one old man feels. Now get off my lawn you young kids with your rock and roll and your fancy iPods. Sorry for the whine, I'll go get some 4-gate cheese now.
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Liquidbet 2/2 check
Results predicted 3-0 3-0 check
And i have to lol at liquid staff predictions, so biased...
Im not disrespecting just saying.
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On April 10 2011 14:31 darkscream wrote:teamliquid.net liquidtyler do not bite the hand that feeds lol
Still, he's been nothing but critical of other players who have accomplished far, far more than he has in SC2. He really needs to put up or shut up because it's getting quite annoying.
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On April 10 2011 23:44 Skullflower wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 14:31 darkscream wrote:
A ban seems a little harsh.
teamliquid.net liquidtyler do not bite the hand that feeds lol Still, he's been nothing but critical of other players who have accomplished far, far more than he has in SC2. He really needs to put up or shut up because it's getting quite annoying.
He's NOT been nothing but critical to other players, he's mostly talked about MC and how his play is risky, too risky to be viable in the long run. It's only being brought up more and more because people have a tendency to overblow things immensely.
You can give constructive criticism and still be an inferior player.
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Just watched the VoDs of all the games and I have to admit I'm a little disappointed. MC vs WhiteRa was quite boring. Ok, you could say that's PvP, but I was hoping for something epic from those two players.
I was rooting for Tyler in the other match, but ThorZaiN was clearly the better player yesterday, so he deserved to win.
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On April 10 2011 04:43 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 04:38 Deadlyfish wrote:On April 10 2011 04:38 Vorenius wrote:On April 10 2011 04:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
WhiteRa just BMed MC for 4gating lol You don't get it man! When WhiteRa 4gates game 2 that's sick mindgames! When MC 4gates in game 3 he's a cheesy noob! That's just how it works in FanBoi Land! Hmm? WhiteRa didnt BM. He even said GG. How is it BM? :S He said something similar in the GSL WC matches and later commented on them saying they were meant to be sarcastic... Although that was towards San. Making fun of your opponents besty 4gt build is kinda bad mannered. Especially considering whitera did the exact same thing the previous game.
WhiteRa did the 4gate in the second game but it was realy sloppy. Second gas, to fake tech, missed pylon on time near MC base. All that allowed MC to get immortal and his gates to defend. Add on top of that, that MC is usually a couple seconds faster, then you have the result there imo.
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On April 11 2011 00:02 Malaz wrote:
Just watched the VoDs of all the games and I have to admit I'm a little disappointed. MC vs WhiteRa was quite boring. Ok, you could say that's PvP, but I was hoping for something epic from those two players.
I was rooting for Tyler in the other match, but ThorZaiN was clearly the better player yesterday, so he deserved to win.
IMO I find the only time PVP is boring is when someone is clearly superior. If you watch San VS MC that happened recently, its insane. Same builds, yeah, but the micro was so over the top it was fun.
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I like how the TeamLiquid Defense Force is in full-force today. This community would really be alot better if everyone wasn't so intent on sucking every TL players dick. inb4 I get banned for saying something remotely negative.
Also, just a small request: Could the casters actually TRY to sound like their unbiased?
+ Show Spoiler +Chill wrote:
Tyler > Thorzain either 3-0 (if not then 3-2 because of maps)
Interesting that he didn't make a prediction for the day2 thread hmmm...
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 11 2011 00:23 monkey5476 wrote:I like how the TeamLiquid Defense Force is in full-force today. This community would really be alot better if everyone wasn't so intent on sucking every TL players dick. inb4 I get banned for saying something remotely negative. Also, just a small request: Could the casters actually TRY to sound like their unbiased? + Show Spoiler +Chill wrote:
Tyler > Thorzain either 3-0 (if not then 3-2 because of maps)
Interesting that he didn't make a prediction for the day2 thread hmmm...
You do know they ban people for saying "i'm gonna get banned" right?
Anyways I'm sad Tyler played bad but I know he can do better. Next chance is NASL  .
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Indeed @Logros, I do believe in Tyler's power, but this ThorZain dude is showing some sick Terran gampelay, got to support him for now on.
Gogog QXC and NaDa, spread the Terran Dominion!!
And about Ra vs MC... well that was kinda predicted - even after GSL match, but I was supporting Ra anyway, wp bro.
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On April 11 2011 00:23 monkey5476 wrote:I like how the TeamLiquid Defense Force is in full-force today. This community would really be alot better if everyone wasn't so intent on sucking every TL players dick. inb4 I get banned for saying something remotely negative. Also, just a small request: Could the casters actually TRY to sound like their unbiased? + Show Spoiler +Chill wrote:
Tyler > Thorzain either 3-0 (if not then 3-2 because of maps)
Interesting that he didn't make a prediction for the day2 thread hmmm...
So chill is not allowed to make predicitions? Or should he always predict draws?
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Finally watched the tyler replays...you know he REALLY likes stalkers but on paper they are very cost inefficient units and need a lot of micro and/or supporting units (colossi, forcefields) to be effective.
In game three, I understand delaying his third base a bit as was hoping to attack the Thorzain's third (which hadn't been built yet...bad break for Tyler) and was leery of a terran push that would obviously beeline for the third.
What I don't understand his blink over charge... In PvT midgame blink is only really useful protecting colossi (which he didn't have) against vikings (well flying ones). While charge is AMAZING (especially with the latest patch) vs marauders plus he had so many zealots 
First game was interesting...first time I've seen the strike cannon be used successfully. Key in this was to apply early pressure...4 gate is very strong vs 111. I'm surprised that immortals weren't a counter to thors (they melted like butter to the strike cannon) and am not sure what Tyler could have done against that many with the upgrade... Perhaps void rays or a huge chargelot army? Void Rays could have been strong because Thorzain hadn't been building the barracks in favor of the factories.
In game 2, he did some slick things with his stalkers but too many times just crashed them into the bunkers and/or rauder/rine/SCV army which you don't want to do with stalkers as they are finesse units and need to do more hit and run tactics. Yeah, his minerals floated to like I think 600 during his attack, but people don't realize how difficult it is to warp in and regroup warpgate units in during battle without losing significant micro. Blizzard needs to allow warping in on the mini-map... As for him not expanding, he didn't know until it was too late whether he would need those resources for additional attacking units or not. Even so....expanding while doing stalker blink micro is soooo difficult...
All in all, would have loved to have seen Tyler play a more aggressive play style...passive playing loses games in starcraft.
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On April 10 2011 21:55 hagrin wrote:
TL and TSL3 are great - the production value has been terrific and, while I know they are using replays, after MLG it's really great to watch games as easily as I did today even if they weren't the most entertaining. Thank you TL for a great effort - seriously, the pokerstrategytsl3.com site is amazingly well done and one of the best community gaming sites I have seen.
That said (here's where I'm sure I get myself banned), I'm an older guy well beyond his gaming prime and have been playing SC since the days of Agent911 and there's just something about Tyler that rubs me really wrong. I only recently started watching the SotGs and almost everything he says is utterly ridiculous to me. He keeps bringing up the MC timing attack/risky play as some sort of flaw, yet what exactly did Tyler do in Game 2 today? An all-in, risky play where he forgets to expand? If the play style is flawed, then why did you try emulating it? Tyler never had any intention of playing a straight up game on that map and even the commentators stated as much.
He made a comment the last SotG that if "everything isn't perfect", he doesn't play well. I guess I'm just tired of the excuses for his poor play. People keep pointing to his 4th at MLG as some sort of proof that he belongs, but let's not make that field to be out to be anything special not to mention players like HuK and Sen have improved since then while Tyler hasn't shown any improvement. That plus the little comments about wanting to be sponsored by an alcoholic drink and "getting that ad revenue" just really irritate me - it's as if the business of SC might have become more important than the gameplay.
The final straw was the no beginning of game gg and the ragequits while the commentators incorrectly pointed out a lack of gl hf from MC in game 1 and people get all over other players for ragequitting and meanwhile Tyler either Alt+F4d, pulled the cable or just shut his machine off in game 3 (don't even try and tell me otherwise, that's what happened you know it, I know it, Tyler knows it).
I love TL and I'm glad I found it recently as opposed to just watching YouTube VODs, following ICCup, etc. Jinro is super nice to his viewers, HuK is extremely entertaining and I admire TLO for trying to be innovative and I'll root for Liquid in every series of every tournament ... but there's something about Tyler I'm having difficulty getting behind.
I'm prepared for the noob, I don't know what I'm talking about, QQ, T_T replies, it's just how one old man feels. Now get off my lawn you young kids with your rock and roll and your fancy iPods. Sorry for the whine, I'll go get some 4-gate cheese now.
I just want to adress the "ragequit."
To be honest, sometimes a ragequit is justified. I'd be angry too getting my ass handled to me in such fashion 3 games in a row. But I think Tyler took the more mature approach, and shut off his computer - let out the steam. Instead of trashing his opponent or the like.
Next, he has been saying how he's practicing very hard and how TSL is his tournament, and well he really let down his fans, and himself too. After a poor MLG showing can you blame him? It was apperant he wasn't in the best shape yesterday.
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On April 11 2011 02:09 Fungal Growth wrote:Finally watched the tyler replays...you know he REALLY likes stalkers but on paper they are very cost inefficient units and need a lot of micro and/or supporting units (colossi, forcefields) to be effective. In game three, I understand delaying his third base a bit as was hoping to attack the Thorzain's third (which hadn't been built yet...bad break for Tyler) and was leery of a terran push that would obviously beeline for the third.
What I don't understand his blink over charge... In PvT midgame blink is only really useful protecting colossi (which he didn't have) against vikings (well flying ones). While charge is AMAZING (especially with the latest patch) vs marauders plus he had so many zealots First game was interesting...first time I've seen the strike cannon be used successfully. Key in this was to apply early pressure...4 gate is very strong vs 111. I'm surprised that immortals weren't a counter to thors (they melted like butter to the strike cannon) and am not sure what Tyler could have done against that many with the upgrade... Perhaps void rays or a huge chargelot army? Void Rays could have been strong because Thorzain hadn't been building the barracks in favor of the factories. In game 2, he did some slick things with his stalkers but too many times just crashed them into the bunkers and/or rauder/rine/SCV army which you don't want to do with stalkers as they are finesse units and need to do more hit and run tactics. Yeah, his minerals floated to like I think 600 during his attack, but people don't realize how difficult it is to warp in and regroup warpgate units in during battle without losing significant micro. Blizzard needs to allow warping in on the mini-map... As for him not expanding, he didn't know until it was too late whether he would need those resources for additional attacking units or not. Even so....expanding while doing stalker blink micro is soooo difficult... All in all, would have loved to have seen Tyler play a more aggressive play style...passive playing loses games in starcraft.
Blink before charge is standard with the mass gateway style. I think you will see it today when Adelscott plays. Hasuobs showed how good of a choice it is at UGC but you have to use it right (harass,abusing map controle, delaying pushes, sniping medivacs, "stalkerfield").
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EPT
