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Players such as Jinro, HuK, and Adelscott did not apply for this tour, so don't ask why they aren't on this list. DIMAGA, Kas, and LaLush turned applications in late so they will not appear either. Please take some time to learn who exactly applied. Please inform yourself about who applied and who didn't. |
When does the season start officially? April isn't a date, its a month. I know MLG Dallas is this weekend, but if this tournament is supposed to start in the next three weeks, it would be nice to know where I can get the HD package, how much it is going to cost, what day of the week/time it will be broadcast, and which players will be going first.
Also, this idea that the NASL is "growing e-sports" thing is a pretty silly thing to say. So far, the only people who know anything about this tournament already read team liquid. We are already the assumed audience.
Why do I say that? The only web presence the NASL has is their website. All it contains is a teaser video and a list of names.
There are three types of potential fans, only two of which "Grow Esports".
Type one: Us. We already watch tournaments, keep up with players, and know all the results. We are already a part of e-sports.
Type two: If you were a fan of say, counterstrike or some other e-sports game and had never been to Team Liquid, but you were at MLG Dallas this weekend. You hear about this new sports league called the NASL. You go to the website and watch the video. Oh wow, nice prize pool. Ok. So when does it start? Oh, it doesn't say. Who are these players? Oh, it doesn't say. These people are already a part of e-sports, but not SC 2. So they grow our game, at the least.
Type three: Random Gamer. They hear about NASL after they stumble face first into the NASL website because they were looking up info on their favorite US Soccer team. They can't figure out what game it even is, because the website and video barely even mention Starcraft II. They see a list of silly names. Oh, a FAQ! They read it. They have never watched a professional e-sports event before, unless you count that one youtube they saw about some Asian guy doing an infinite combo with Akuma in Street Fighter IV. He would like to see a sample of this game on the website. Oh wait, it doesn't exist.
In summary, you guys spend way too much time dealing with TL.net. Regardless of people here being haters or not, they are still going to watch this tournament. Especially if it is free. They don't grow e-sports because they are already a part of it. Meanwhile, you have zero web presence and zero communication outside of this inner circle.
Hell, we are the inner circle and we don't even know when this thing ACTUALLY begins. That is a problem, and like 90% of the NASL problems, it comes down to a failure to communicate.
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I like the up/down thingy in GSL would be nice to see it somewhere else too. Obiously in/out in this case ohohoho oh
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Wow... I wish they were just willing to admit they screwed up with Demuslim's situation. I can at least understand that with Nightend he KNEW he would NEED a visa if he were to make it far in the competition (I am not saying that it's all his fault nor do I want to argue it now) but in Demuslim's case, they just assumed that someone would sign up for a tournament to say they aren't ready if they got accepted? Come on...
And while I can understand that the NASL doesn't want to hold everyone's hand... when it comes down to a few unique situations such as Demuslim with his arm, can you really not just ask iNcontroL or someone in close contact with him to simply talk to him? Isn't the NASL interested in getting as many top level players as possible? Besides... I can't imagine future contracts saying "also... show proof that you are physically able to play" or anything like that.
I think worst of all (because I didn't care until I saw Xeris' last post) is that they couldn't just say "Yeah... we could have handled the situation better" but instead (as I have seen in so many of Xeris' posts) he tries to put it all on the player. Clearly Demuslim should have aggressively been messaging the NASL telling him that he is ready... and he should have constantly been sending them replays...
I just really don't know what you guys were expecting him to do. Would spamming you with his recent replays be good? You guys claim you have no time to deal with all the players, yet something like that would have worked? If you wanted him to just say "I am ready to play" then that is a bit ridiculous since his video application already did that.
If it really came down to "Demuslim is about on the same level as other terran players in the league, and we simply chose to go with someone who hasn't had health problems recently" that would be reasonable... but the excuses you guys are coming up with are a bit ridiculous. Just take a bit of responsibility so you don't look bad. THIS on the other hand looks like you guys are on a high horse and feel like you can't do anything wrong. Clearly anything that people are not happy with are entirely other people's fault.
Edit: I also wanted to say that I am not even a Demuslim fan. I have barely seen him play, and while I really enjoyed his video... that is about it from what I have seen of him. The point I am making now is that I was not outraged when he didn't make it in... but the terrible excuses and lack of willingness to own up to situations like this is very annoying.
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Transparency has been decent, even if organization hasn't been optimal coming from NASL. This period right now is going to be full of growing pains. Let's lay off the whining and give them a season. I'm sure we'll see some good games, they'll make some mistakes, and they'll learn from it.
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On April 01 2011 01:53 Fluffdaddy wrote:
In summary, you guys spend way too much time dealing with TL.net. Regardless of people here being haters or not, they are still going to watch this tournament. Especially if it is free. They don't grow e-sports because they are already a part of it. Meanwhile, you have zero web presence and zero communication outside of this inner circle.
Really good point there.
But is it actually true? Are they indeed not advertising on other web sites and so on? I have no idea.
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On April 01 2011 02:04 Chicane wrote:
Wow... I wish they were just willing to admit they screwed up with Demuslim's situation. I can at least understand that with Nightend he KNEW he would NEED a visa if he were to make it far in the competition (I am not saying that it's all his fault nor do I want to argue it now) but in Demuslim's case, they just assumed that someone would sign up for a tournament to say they aren't ready if they got accepted? Come on...
Yeah NightEnd knew he would need a Visa. But he did not know he had to show a Visa more than 3 months before he would actually travel to the US.
He stated getting a Visa was not a problem, and he never thought NASL thought it would be one. So why should he apply for one more than 3 months in advance?
NASL should just have stated that they want to see Visas from certain countries at the moment of application, not later.
Or they should have said in advance that they dont accept applications from certain counries. It is just heartbraking to see a guy like NightEnd make an application, get his hopes up and find out much later that it was all for nothing because he was from the wrong country.
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Can not wait for this to start up! Every week night... Top level games and casting, so hyped!
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On April 01 2011 02:05 Redox wrote:
Really good point there.
But is it actually true? Are they indeed not advertising on other web sites and so on? I have no idea.
There are a few news stories from back in February. Thats a good start, but those are hype interviews will little to no details on the date the league starts. If this thing does start in the next two weeks, they need to start advertising this league now.
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On April 01 2011 02:10 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 02:04 Chicane wrote:
Wow... I wish they were just willing to admit they screwed up with Demuslim's situation. I can at least understand that with Nightend he KNEW he would NEED a visa if he were to make it far in the competition (I am not saying that it's all his fault nor do I want to argue it now) but in Demuslim's case, they just assumed that someone would sign up for a tournament to say they aren't ready if they got accepted? Come on...
Yeah NightEnd knew he would need a Visa. But he did not know he had to show a Visa more than 3 months before he would actually travel to the US. He stated getting a Visa was not a problem, and he never thought NASL thought it would be one. So why should he apply for one more than 3 months in advance? NASL should just have stated that they want to see Visas from certain countries at the moment of application, not later.
I said I don't want to argue about it... and I didn't say it was all his fault. I felt that his case can be debated, while Demuslim's is just ridiculous.
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In NASL's defence I don't beleive a call needed to go out to Demuslim.I don't think there is any new information to be gained from a call there. Demuslim beleived himself to be ready when he made the application. A phone call would simply have reiterated that. NASL still has to make a decision on whether or not they feel Demuslim is prepared and they have to be able to defend that position. The video in front of the hospital with a cast does not help them defend that position.
There is a couple of things to think about.
1. You cannot ask a player if they are ready to play and if they say yes not accept them. By calling and asking you are creating an expectation of an invite.
2. If Demuslim said yes I'm ready to play, it is likely he still would not have been accepted for the same reasons listed in this thread.
3. The video made by Demuslim is not a private video. It is public to all of the players who are also being considered for that spot. What this means is that if Demuslim gets a spot and it turns out he is not able to compete yet or is performing far below his standards then NASL gets a shitstorm for putting him in even though they knew his application was from the hospital in a cast. Now all of the players that might have been awarded a spot if Demuslim had not been in have ammunition to argue the decisions of NASL.
It sounds like the phone call may have cleared up a misunderstanding. But I believe that a phone call could have made the situation even worse. I don't think that Demuslim can be given a spot even if on a phone call he said he was in tournament shape.
Should NASL be more clear about this on the forums, certainly. However this situation does not get averted by a phone call, it's not that simple.
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On April 01 2011 01:53 Fluffdaddy wrote:
When does the season start officially? April isn't a date, its a month. I know MLG Dallas is this weekend, but if this tournament is supposed to start in the next three weeks, it would be nice to know where I can get the HD package, how much it is going to cost, what day of the week/time it will be broadcast, and which players will be going first.
Also, this idea that the NASL is "growing e-sports" thing is a pretty silly thing to say. So far, the only people who know anything about this tournament already read team liquid. We are already the assumed audience.
Why do I say that? The only web presence the NASL has is their website. All it contains is a teaser video and a list of names.
There are three types of potential fans, only two of which "Grow Esports".
Type one: Us. We already watch tournaments, keep up with players, and know all the results. We are already a part of e-sports.
Type two: If you were a fan of say, counterstrike or some other e-sports game and had never been to Team Liquid, but you were at MLG Dallas this weekend. You hear about this new sports league called the NASL. You go to the website and watch the video. Oh wow, nice prize pool. Ok. So when does it start? Oh, it doesn't say. Who are these players? Oh, it doesn't say. These people are already a part of e-sports, but not SC 2. So they grow our game, at the least.
Type three: Random Gamer. They hear about NASL after they stumble face first into the NASL website because they were looking up info on their favorite US Soccer team. They can't figure out what game it even is, because the website and video barely even mention Starcraft II. They see a list of silly names. Oh, a FAQ! They read it. They have never watched a professional e-sports event before, unless you count that one youtube they saw about some Asian guy doing an infinite combo with Akuma in Street Fighter IV. He would like to see a sample of this game on the website. Oh wait, it doesn't exist.
In summary, you guys spend way too much time dealing with TL.net. Regardless of people here being haters or not, they are still going to watch this tournament. Especially if it is free. They don't grow e-sports because they are already a part of it. Meanwhile, you have zero web presence and zero communication outside of this inner circle.
Hell, we are the inner circle and we don't even know when this thing ACTUALLY begins. That is a problem, and like 90% of the NASL problems, it comes down to a failure to communicate.
You don't grow esports overnight. You start with an idea and you pitch it to your base. Get the base excited and involved. The first season is about getting the base involved and watching and making sure that the idea works. Season 2 irons out the issues and inconsistances and improves the product. Season three expands to regions outside of the base. If NASL is going to grow esports its gonna take some time. For season one NASL is for the TLers, season three might be for everyone.
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Also you need to water your esports every day. It's best to keep your esports on an east facing windowsill so that your esports receives the most amount of sunlight possible.
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On April 01 2011 00:21 DeMusliM wrote:I said i wouldn't go public with this, but anyways i felt i had to respond after this message from you Xeris. [snip] As i said previously, before you chose to slander me, GL with your league - i hope it runs well, i'll be following it intently, and i will be a part of it in the future  .
See, while I understand how you feel that way, I somehow got the feeling it would've been better if you made an effort to include this kind of statement with your application video to the NASL instead of saying it now after your application has been denied.
From your application video one can assume that you are not at the top of your game at the moment, and with you not playing at all for 2 months and NASL having lots of other really great players to chose from, if in NASL's shoes I would've probably made the same choice. Teams have managers for a reason and I think it's also in their best interest to make sure that they take care of these kind of situations and do everything in their power to get their players into such big tournaments. You cannot expect from NASL to go and chat with all 100+ players that applied to chat about how they are doing.
If anything, blame should be split three ways here, between NASL (for not making some things explicitly clear), your manager (for not doing everything he's supposed to to make sure NASL knows how your healing process is going) and you (for not doing your best to show yourself in a state that your potential "employer" would consider top form).
With that said, I really wish you all the best with getting better and good luck with qualifying for NASL season two and maybe even for the last spot in the main bracket for season 1. Same goes for Minigun, Nightend and a couple of other players that didn't make the final cut.
Even though everybody has a different idea who should've been in the first season of NASL, I really like how the player list ended up looking. Can't wait to see Yarrrrtosis show off some of his new toss play, iNcontroL to try to prove the haters wrong, same for dde, July and rest of the Koreans to get their wish granted to get to play more foreigners and, in the end, all of us having a blast seeing all these great games casted!
Cheer for the rise of eSports, lets stop complaining and start enjoying it!
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On April 01 2011 02:36 WGarrison wrote:
You don't grow esports overnight. You start with an idea and you pitch it to your base. Get the base excited and involved. The first season is about getting the base involved and watching and making sure that the idea works. Season 2 irons out the issues and inconsistances and improves the product. Season three expands to regions outside of the base. If NASL is going to grow esports its gonna take some time. For season one NASL is for the TLers, season three might be for everyone.
But what does this tournament offer that will facilitate growth in the fanbase in the future? The TSL, IEM, GSL, Dreamhack, MLG have already laid the ground work for this thing to come out the gates swinging. Why does a tournament with a gigantic prizepool need a warmup lap? And you are giving it two seasons, over 2/3rds of this thing as "practice".
Hire some fucking PR professionals, make some shit happen. This isn't play money they are throwing around. Whomever is investing this money wants some results. The first thing they should of invested in is a PR team and a Web Designer. A REAL web designer.
Everything up to this point has been a misstep followed by an excuse. Time to buckle down and do this like an actual business. With unemployment at around 10%, there are some quality people that can be hired to handle some of this on the cheap.
I feel the NASL has spent too much time and energy on the shit that will come together naturally (the games, the players, the drama of SC2) and not enough on what needs to happen (the logistics, the PR, the communication).
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On April 01 2011 02:36 WGarrison wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 01:53 Fluffdaddy wrote:
When does the season start officially? April isn't a date, its a month. I know MLG Dallas is this weekend, but if this tournament is supposed to start in the next three weeks, it would be nice to know where I can get the HD package, how much it is going to cost, what day of the week/time it will be broadcast, and which players will be going first.
Also, this idea that the NASL is "growing e-sports" thing is a pretty silly thing to say. So far, the only people who know anything about this tournament already read team liquid. We are already the assumed audience.
Why do I say that? The only web presence the NASL has is their website. All it contains is a teaser video and a list of names.
There are three types of potential fans, only two of which "Grow Esports".
Type one: Us. We already watch tournaments, keep up with players, and know all the results. We are already a part of e-sports.
Type two: If you were a fan of say, counterstrike or some other e-sports game and had never been to Team Liquid, but you were at MLG Dallas this weekend. You hear about this new sports league called the NASL. You go to the website and watch the video. Oh wow, nice prize pool. Ok. So when does it start? Oh, it doesn't say. Who are these players? Oh, it doesn't say. These people are already a part of e-sports, but not SC 2. So they grow our game, at the least.
Type three: Random Gamer. They hear about NASL after they stumble face first into the NASL website because they were looking up info on their favorite US Soccer team. They can't figure out what game it even is, because the website and video barely even mention Starcraft II. They see a list of silly names. Oh, a FAQ! They read it. They have never watched a professional e-sports event before, unless you count that one youtube they saw about some Asian guy doing an infinite combo with Akuma in Street Fighter IV. He would like to see a sample of this game on the website. Oh wait, it doesn't exist.
In summary, you guys spend way too much time dealing with TL.net. Regardless of people here being haters or not, they are still going to watch this tournament. Especially if it is free. They don't grow e-sports because they are already a part of it. Meanwhile, you have zero web presence and zero communication outside of this inner circle.
Hell, we are the inner circle and we don't even know when this thing ACTUALLY begins. That is a problem, and like 90% of the NASL problems, it comes down to a failure to communicate. You don't grow esports overnight. You start with an idea and you pitch it to your base. Get the base excited and involved. The first season is about getting the base involved and watching and making sure that the idea works. Season 2 irons out the issues and inconsistances and improves the product. Season three expands to regions outside of the base. If NASL is going to grow esports its gonna take some time. For season one NASL is for the TLers, season three might be for everyone.
I had never seen an esports event until last week. I enjoyed the GSTL so much I decided to do some research and found the NASL. Since the information there was so sparse I had to use google and stumbled across this site that way. I wouldn't say I am typical as most people would have given up or checked back into that site eventually or just completely forgot about it. But I would imaging it would be beneficial to attempt to pull in new people during each season not just waiting till the third.
Though GOMtv is also stingy about releasing info ahead of time as well so.....
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Jesus people TL;DR
Geoff announced on SOTG that the NASL starts the second week of April, a.k.a. a week from Monday.
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I think the bottom line is something like this:
Is NASL a great tournament? Yes.
Is Nasl as great a tournament as it could have been? No.
And that is a shame for everyone involved.
The selection process have been contested from the start, and you do get the feeling, that we're only getting half the story. Has the 5-people-per-team rule been in effect? Is that why DeMuslim was not chosen in contest with Grubby/Incontrol/Machine/Axslav/Idra? Is this an example of the inner politics of the EG-team manifesting itself in the selection process of the NASL-league?
This is a danger of trying to communicate reasons behind the selection process. When the explanations seem short-sighted, based on false assumptions or non-sufficient, it leaves questions and frustrations. Perhaps this thread is a lesson on how to handle such a situation. We all usually believe ourselves right. Sometimes though, and perhaps especially if you're in a position of power, its worth questioning that position. In this situation, to have seen Xeris a bit more forthcoming about the shortcomings of the selection process could have made a difference.
Still, I think it's time to look forward. Soon the tournament will begin, and the focus will be on the players that was chosen. Hopefully though, this thread won't be forgotten 
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On April 01 2011 03:05 Better than IdrA wrote:
Jesus people TL;DR
Geoff announced on SOTG that the NASL starts the second week of April, a.k.a. a week from Monday.
Ah, glad I got to hear that on a podcast that I barely listen to and not on the main website of the NASL.
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On April 01 2011 02:54 Fluffdaddy wrote:
But what does this tournament offer that will facilitate growth in the fanbase in the future? The TSL, IEM, GSL, Dreamhack, MLG have already laid the ground work for this thing to come out the gates swinging. Why does a tournament with a gigantic prizepool need a warmup lap? And you are giving it two seasons, over 2/3rds of this thing as "practice".
Hire some fucking PR professionals, make some shit happen. This isn't play money they are throwing around. Whomever is investing this money wants some results. The first thing they should of invested in is a PR team and a Web Designer. A REAL web designer.
Everything up to this point has been a misstep followed by an excuse. Time to buckle down and do this like an actual business. With unemployment at around 10%, there are some quality people that can be hired to handle some of this on the cheap.
I feel the NASL has spent too much time and energy on the shit that will come together naturally (the games, the players, the drama of SC2) and not enough on what needs to happen (the logistics, the PR, the communication).
I don't know what kind of PR you think would increase viewership in season one. Internet adds? - If you aren't already an SC2 Esports fan an add on a page isn't going to make you start being one. Radio/TV - even worse since you can only view this online. Maybe an add in a gaming magazine but even then the increase probably won't equal the cost. Plus, they are running on a very short schedule, basically two months from announcment until league start. I'm not even sure if you could get an add into a major print magazine in that short of a time frame (though either way that's not the point).
The real way they are going to grow their viewership is word of mouth and good content. People who are esports fans who tell their friends. With great conent some of the friends will become fans too. Also if they could get it on TV they could pick up a few channel surfers but the cost of that is prohibitive at this juncture, or at least I would assume it is.
Now, hopefully, we haven't seen what they have in store content wise. Though I'm sure there will be some rough edges in season one, there always is. As long as they come out with something decent and continue to improve there is no reason they won't succeede.
IMHO the only real "misstep" by NASL was trying to involve the community so closely. It has the potential to be a windfall for them eventually but up through now its mostly just been a major headache. If they had just announced the league and then said nothing until releasing a full site, lets say, tomorrow, with all the names and details there would be no drama. However, they are being headed up by several community members who have tried to bring us along with them during this journey. Unfortunatly I don't think they've gotten the gratitude they expected or deserved.
I know I'll be getting an HD pass as soon as they open them to the public and can't wait for the season to start!
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On April 01 2011 02:54 Fluffdaddy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 02:36 WGarrison wrote:
You don't grow esports overnight. You start with an idea and you pitch it to your base. Get the base excited and involved. The first season is about getting the base involved and watching and making sure that the idea works. Season 2 irons out the issues and inconsistances and improves the product. Season three expands to regions outside of the base. If NASL is going to grow esports its gonna take some time. For season one NASL is for the TLers, season three might be for everyone.
But what does this tournament offer that will facilitate growth in the fanbase in the future? The TSL, IEM, GSL, Dreamhack, MLG have already laid the ground work for this thing to come out the gates swinging. Why does a tournament with a gigantic prizepool need a warmup lap? And you are giving it two seasons, over 2/3rds of this thing as "practice". Hire some fucking PR professionals, make some shit happen. This isn't play money they are throwing around. Whomever is investing this money wants some results. The first thing they should of invested in is a PR team and a Web Designer. A REAL web designer. Everything up to this point has been a misstep followed by an excuse. Time to buckle down and do this like an actual business. With unemployment at around 10%, there are some quality people that can be hired to handle some of this on the cheap. I feel the NASL has spent too much time and energy on the shit that will come together naturally (the games, the players, the drama of SC2) and not enough on what needs to happen (the logistics, the PR, the communication).
Every one of those listed organizations either needed a warmup lap or starcraft was the expansion. Every major organization starts with their base and expands later. Who are you to beleive that you can just cut the corners and go big because you said so.
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EPT
