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Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
March 17 2011 16:57 GMT
#2161
I do not envy the NASL decision making team here. So many great players applying. Based on merit alone they pretty much must let a bunch of Koreans in the tournament. I don't think many who have applied have no accomplishments. Winning Code A of the GSL, imho, is a bigger deal than winning IEM or MLG.
Wat
kukarachaa
Profile Joined February 2011
United States284 Posts
March 17 2011 17:00 GMT
#2162
Definetly would love to see Brat_ok in, he has an enourmous fan base that nasl could benefit greatly from.
Steamroller
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland756 Posts
March 17 2011 17:21 GMT
#2163
On March 18 2011 01:56 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 01:29 MagnusHyperion wrote:
On March 18 2011 01:14 Bobster wrote:
To be honest, I was a bit shocked by the lack of English skills some of the Startale guys showed.

The oGs guys were better, but not by much. It was the sort of differences you'd pick up being around English speaking people more, I guess.


I gather English is not taught at Korean schools? Which foreign languages are on the school curriculum in Korea?


Hey, guy, how much Korean do you know? Maybe before you start negatively criticizing people who are doing their best to try to speak English you stop and think about the significance of this. After all, Korean-to-English or English-to-Korean are some of the hardest language transitions for, literally, anyone. FYI, according to NPR, English is taught at a very young age almost universally to students in Korea but, as I mentioned, the languages are so incredibly different that it's hard for them to do well with it. The command of ~300 English words I heard from the ST guys was pretty impressive considering China is pumping billions into getting their population educated enough to use ~1000 in like 10 years (according to NPR). Anyhow, my point is don't be so hasty to throw negative energy at some guys who spend 12 hours a day playing video games for your enjoyment when they can't speak one of the hardest languages for them to learn. Perhaps you should phrase it as, "I was impressed at how hard they tried, despite not having a good command of vocabulary."

Anyhow, I'll put this frankly, as a person who watched a lot of BW, I was/am infinitely pleased to see Korean pro gamers speaking ANY English. I was actually clapping my hands and jumping up and down in my chair when I saw July Zerg had put up a video! This was the first time I have ever heard these guys speak English in such quantity, several minutes of them speaking is impressive! Korean progamers doing this is actually unprecedented by it's strictest definition! Hell, I even remember seeing foreign reporters struggling to get Bisu to say one or two words in English and Russian.

Seeing Korean Progamers stepping outside their comfort zone and doing something like this makes me exceptionally happy!

Also, did anyone else notice that most Western players mentioned that they didn't have rivals, while Koreans almost uniformly had rivals? (Even MC's comments reeked of giving the middle finger to every player out there) It's a curious little side note I thought worth mentioning.

You liked the startale videos because you like the players. Be honest, what could July have said in the video that would have made you dislike it? I suspect there is nothing.
From an unbiased, rational perspective they were not very good. They seemed to be done in just one take, reading a few sentences (that were maybe just phonetics) from a paper. For the most sentences I could not make out what they were meant to mean.They were also the shortest videos of all players.

That said I dont think that it really matters how good this videos were, nor do I think its necessary for the Koreans to speak English. Just saying that labeling these vids as "impressive, amazing efforts, best video" and so on is nonsense from a neutral observers perspective.


Exactly what i think aswell. I think everyone are just happy that they speak any english after all.
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 18:37:37
March 17 2011 17:36 GMT
#2164
Updated with Boxer and White-Ra.


113 total Applicants

Race makeup:
1 [image loading]
33 [image loading]
37 [image loading]
42 [image loading]


Server makeup:

19 KR - 6[image loading] 5[image loading] 8[image loading]
28 EU - 9[image loading] 10[image loading] 8[image loading] 1[image loading]
66 NA - 18[image loading] 21[image loading] 27[image loading]

*SEA folded into KR, RU folded into EU, LA folded into NA

Country makeup:

1 [image loading]
1 [image loading]
1 [image loading]
1 [image loading]
1 [image loading]
1 [image loading]
1 [image loading]
1 [image loading]
2 [image loading]
2 [image loading]
3 [image loading]
8 [image loading]
9 [image loading]
18 [image loading]
20 [image loading]
43 [image loading]



Counted from here.
TheCrow
Profile Joined January 2011
Norway296 Posts
March 17 2011 17:40 GMT
#2165
On March 18 2011 01:56 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 01:29 MagnusHyperion wrote:
On March 18 2011 01:14 Bobster wrote:
To be honest, I was a bit shocked by the lack of English skills some of the Startale guys showed.

The oGs guys were better, but not by much. It was the sort of differences you'd pick up being around English speaking people more, I guess.


I gather English is not taught at Korean schools? Which foreign languages are on the school curriculum in Korea?


Hey, guy, how much Korean do you know? Maybe before you start negatively criticizing people who are doing their best to try to speak English you stop and think about the significance of this. After all, Korean-to-English or English-to-Korean are some of the hardest language transitions for, literally, anyone. FYI, according to NPR, English is taught at a very young age almost universally to students in Korea but, as I mentioned, the languages are so incredibly different that it's hard for them to do well with it. The command of ~300 English words I heard from the ST guys was pretty impressive considering China is pumping billions into getting their population educated enough to use ~1000 in like 10 years (according to NPR). Anyhow, my point is don't be so hasty to throw negative energy at some guys who spend 12 hours a day playing video games for your enjoyment when they can't speak one of the hardest languages for them to learn. Perhaps you should phrase it as, "I was impressed at how hard they tried, despite not having a good command of vocabulary."

Anyhow, I'll put this frankly, as a person who watched a lot of BW, I was/am infinitely pleased to see Korean pro gamers speaking ANY English. I was actually clapping my hands and jumping up and down in my chair when I saw July Zerg had put up a video! This was the first time I have ever heard these guys speak English in such quantity, several minutes of them speaking is impressive! Korean progamers doing this is actually unprecedented by it's strictest definition! Hell, I even remember seeing foreign reporters struggling to get Bisu to say one or two words in English and Russian.

Seeing Korean Progamers stepping outside their comfort zone and doing something like this makes me exceptionally happy!

Also, did anyone else notice that most Western players mentioned that they didn't have rivals, while Koreans almost uniformly had rivals? (Even MC's comments reeked of giving the middle finger to every player out there) It's a curious little side note I thought worth mentioning.

You liked the startale videos because you like the players. Be honest, what could July have said in the video that would have made you dislike it? I suspect there is nothing.
From an unbiased, rational perspective they were not very good. They seemed to be done in just one take, reading a few sentences (that were maybe just phonetics) from a paper. For the most sentences I could not make out what they were meant to mean.They were also the shortest videos of all players.

That said I dont think that it really matters how good this videos were, nor do I think its necessary for the Koreans to speak English. Just saying that labeling these vids as "impressive, amazing efforts, best video" and so on is nonsense from a neutral observers perspective.


Why are you putting words in his mouth, he expressed that he liked the koreans taking notice of the western scene. He never said they were the best videos!

Also: stating that you are unbiased and rational doesnt make it so. If the videos are good or not depends on what you define as a good video. Technically they prolly werent the best video's.. low quality resolution etc. But since NASL wants to keep a lot of the focus on players and a narrative around them, player personality becomes important. July is giggling and makes you smile in his video, he seems to be a nice guy you want to see more of... and that makes his video very good in that department. Many foreigner videos have the same qualities, but most of them are of people being quite boring, or rather generic. (my personal opinion).

zasda
Profile Joined March 2011
381 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 17:44:43
March 17 2011 17:41 GMT
#2166
yeah an european comparing their own english skills to someone from korea etc is just ignorant and if you don't know why, why bother commenting them?
(about pro gamers of course)
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 17:49:48
March 17 2011 17:47 GMT
#2167
Duckload.White-ra
Empire.Kas
[M]Tarson
[M]Adelscott


are still missing from EU.

I Hope they get invited anyway.
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
March 17 2011 17:54 GMT
#2168
On March 18 2011 02:47 DiaBoLuS wrote:
Duckload.White-ra
Empire.Kas
[M]Tarson
[M]Adelscott


are still missing from EU.

I Hope they get invited anyway.

I would go as far as placing both White-Ra and Kas in the top3 of the EU server, they definitely need to be in.

Tarson hasn't been as active lately and I'm not sure Adelscott would make the cut.
applejuice
Profile Joined October 2010
307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 17:57:54
March 17 2011 17:54 GMT
#2169
On March 18 2011 01:57 Tenks wrote:
I do not envy the NASL decision making team here. So many great players applying. Based on merit alone they pretty much must let a bunch of Koreans in the tournament. I don't think many who have applied have no accomplishments. Winning Code A of the GSL, imho, is a bigger deal than winning IEM or MLG.


me neither

I just hope they don't make some arbitrary decision like "we'll take some Koreans, but we don't want too many, so we'll max it at 5". Do ANY of those 19 really not deserve to be in the NASL, based on skill? I hope they understand that SC2 is not some marketing ploy they can turn into reality TV with rivalries and elimination votes.

edit: I also thought the korean vids were quite entertaining. It's fun to see them speaking english, and they all seem like nice guys. More entertaining than a lot of foreigner vids, for sure.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
March 17 2011 17:57 GMT
#2170
On March 18 2011 02:54 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 02:47 DiaBoLuS wrote:
Duckload.White-ra
Empire.Kas
[M]Tarson
[M]Adelscott


are still missing from EU.

I Hope they get invited anyway.

I would go as far as placing both White-Ra and Kas in the top3 of the EU server, they definitely need to be in.

Tarson hasn't been as active lately and I'm not sure Adelscott would make the cut.



remember only those not privatly invited need to of done their apps by now. im 99% sure they have already talked to white-ra and similar, he will probably get something together sooner or later since they want to show these videos for everyone
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 18:00:55
March 17 2011 17:59 GMT
#2171
I think with so many top players applying, there's little to no room for hopeful newcomers.

Also, there were many more NA players applying compared to EU than I anticipated, tbh. 65 vs 27 is a pretty substantial difference.


On March 18 2011 02:54 applejuice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 01:57 Tenks wrote:
I do not envy the NASL decision making team here. So many great players applying. Based on merit alone they pretty much must let a bunch of Koreans in the tournament. I don't think many who have applied have no accomplishments. Winning Code A of the GSL, imho, is a bigger deal than winning IEM or MLG.
I just hope they don't make some arbitrary decision like "we'll take some Koreans, but we don't want too many, so we'll max it at 5". Do ANY of those 19 really not deserve to be in the NASL, based on skill? I hope they understand that SC2 is not some marketing ploy they can turn into reality TV with rivalries and elimination votes.
WeMadeFoxSoccer?

Never heard of the guy, personally. :p
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 18:06:47
March 17 2011 18:05 GMT
#2172
On March 18 2011 02:54 applejuice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 01:57 Tenks wrote:
I do not envy the NASL decision making team here. So many great players applying. Based on merit alone they pretty much must let a bunch of Koreans in the tournament. I don't think many who have applied have no accomplishments. Winning Code A of the GSL, imho, is a bigger deal than winning IEM or MLG.


me neither

I just hope they don't make some arbitrary decision like "we'll take some Koreans, but we don't want too many, so we'll max it at 5". Do ANY of those 19 really not deserve to be in the NASL, based on skill? I hope they understand that SC2 is not some marketing ploy they can turn into reality TV with rivalries and elimination votes.



Based on skill, highly unlikely. Honestly the only Korean who applied that you could make a case against would be Bomber. He has a bunch of hype surrounding him but really hasn't accomplished much. I don't count winning the iCCup map tournament series a "major" accomplishment. However all the others are either Code S players or have finished very high in Code A. Then there are others who almost seem like shoe-in picks simply because they are well known NA players.

It almost seems like it comes down to an age-old argument of NFL vs NCAA FB and which people prefer. If you outright want to watch the absolute best football you watch the NFL. If that isn't your primary criteria and you prefer to watch college thats fine as well. I think it comes down to which direction they want to take the NASL. If you want my honest opinion (no one does) NASL stands to make more money if they limit the Korean players and extend most of their invites to top NA/EU players who can speak English. They already said they wish to have the NASL as more of an "experience" instead of just Starcraft games and it is very hard to hype up someone who cannot interact with the public seamlessly. Just my 2¢. Personally, I'd prefer if every Korean who applied got in Then again I watch the NFL....


-edit-

Didn't notice the WeMadeFox guys. You could argue against Soccer with an easy case and you could also have me buy into Moon even though he just got second at IEM -- which is still a better resume than most of the NA/EU applicants.
Wat
meijin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States141 Posts
March 17 2011 18:13 GMT
#2173
have they announced how they're going to separate players into divisions? is it random? random while minimizing team kills? they just get to cherry pick the best matchups? regional?

i hope they purposefully select players for the divisions so they can make as many good matchups/storylines as possible while also having even divisions.

e.g. if they take both grubby and moon they HAVE to put them in the same group to guarantee a series between them. probably put zenio in idra's division etc etc.
dunc
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands1105 Posts
March 17 2011 18:14 GMT
#2174
the coL.Firezerg video is great. I wish I could make a fanclub for his haircut, it looks amazing.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
March 17 2011 18:27 GMT
#2175
On March 18 2011 03:13 meijin wrote:
have they announced how they're going to separate players into divisions? is it random? random while minimizing team kills? they just get to cherry pick the best matchups? regional?

i hope they purposefully select players for the divisions so they can make as many good matchups/storylines as possible while also having even divisions.

e.g. if they take both grubby and moon they HAVE to put them in the same group to guarantee a series between them. probably put zenio in idra's division etc etc.



i think minimizing team kills is the first objective. personally im not against mirrors. pvp is a test of micro, zvz can be very tense but fast paced, and tvt is pretty sweet as long as it doesnt turn into tank turtling.
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 18:31:00
March 17 2011 18:30 GMT
#2176
On March 18 2011 03:27 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 03:13 meijin wrote:
have they announced how they're going to separate players into divisions? is it random? random while minimizing team kills? they just get to cherry pick the best matchups? regional?

i hope they purposefully select players for the divisions so they can make as many good matchups/storylines as possible while also having even divisions.

e.g. if they take both grubby and moon they HAVE to put them in the same group to guarantee a series between them. probably put zenio in idra's division etc etc.



i think minimizing team kills is the first objective. personally im not against mirrors. pvp is a test of micro, zvz can be very tense but fast paced, and tvt is pretty sweet as long as it doesnt turn into tank turtling.

So basically they have to put Goody in a Z/P only division. :p
teko
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada1197 Posts
March 17 2011 18:35 GMT
#2177
On March 17 2011 20:36 Mise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 20:24 MyXoMoPBL wrote:
zenio + top best korean english? :OO

From what I've heard Hyperdub has the best english in oGs. He didn't aplly though.


He goes to Seoul University. Must be a pretty smart kid.

I'm surprised he's able to do that while playing SC2 competitively.
antilyon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Brazil2546 Posts
March 17 2011 18:36 GMT
#2178
Kas why u no make a VOD?

It would be really bad if kas doesn't participate into NASL.
Xswordy
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom425 Posts
March 17 2011 19:24 GMT
#2179
Really awesome from all the korean players doing this in english. Must be hard for some of them.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
March 17 2011 19:37 GMT
#2180
Wow, oGs players are getting better at english pretty rapidly :o
Hello=)
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