|
On January 17 2011 23:38 m3rciless wrote:
This thread is such fucking garbage. So much protoss whine and underinformed nonsense about balance and MVP 'only using allin'. Jesus christ I thought we outgrew this.
Cool your jets, man
1. Its a LR thread, you kinda have to expect balance whine in these (even though they get temp banned)
2. If you don't like what people post, then just don't read it.
3. People calling MVP's strats All ins should mean nothing to you. Its their opinion, they are entitled to it.
4. TL won't outgrow this until a year or two into SC2, maybe more.
|
On January 17 2011 23:02 sleepingdog wrote:
Yes I am skipping charge to get HTs faster, but I do this after extensive testing - the problem with chargelot/sentry vs MM is really very simple. As soon as the third "M", the medivacs, enter the scene, chargelot/sentry doesn't stand a chance anymore. This means you HAVE to get aoe-damage or die. Since I kinda have to skip colossi because vikings are already out, I have to get storm asap. If you find this hard to believe, you can easily test this in a unit tester of your choice - since this isn't a game-specific problem, the results will be quite accurate. Chargelots may get some hits off, but the healing-effect is just so strong.
I'll have to check this out myself. I'm not sure a uniter tester is the best way to go though--did you test to account for realistic numbers and ratios of units for both sides? What sorts of builds are you trying? I'm thinking 3 gate expand into 6 gate with forge and council would be good, but still just speculating at this point. Against maybe a 2 rax expand into 4 rax MMM?
|
Ugh, those MVP v. Ki-Soo games were not fun to watch.
Would have been nice to see Ki-Soo perform a bit better. I hope MVP wins the whole thing if IdrA or Jinro don't though - then I'll feel a bit better about the fall of the last Protoss.
I did enjoy NesTea vs. Choya though. Choya was just completely outclassed. I know that sounds kinda hypocritical, but Ki-Soo > Choya. I never really thought Choya had a chance to take the final.
|
On January 17 2011 23:55 Providence wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 23:02 sleepingdog wrote:
Yes I am skipping charge to get HTs faster, but I do this after extensive testing - the problem with chargelot/sentry vs MM is really very simple. As soon as the third "M", the medivacs, enter the scene, chargelot/sentry doesn't stand a chance anymore. This means you HAVE to get aoe-damage or die. Since I kinda have to skip colossi because vikings are already out, I have to get storm asap. If you find this hard to believe, you can easily test this in a unit tester of your choice - since this isn't a game-specific problem, the results will be quite accurate. Chargelots may get some hits off, but the healing-effect is just so strong.
I'll have to check this out myself. I'm not sure a uniter tester is the best way to go though--did you test to account for realistic numbers and ratios of units for both sides? What sorts of builds are you trying? I'm thinking 3 gate expand into 6 gate with forge and council would be good, but still just speculating at this point. Against maybe a 2 rax expand into 4 rax MMM?
Oh, I thought we were talking about VR play into chargelot/HT?
Because with this build I go gate/stargate/gate into immediate expo, keep adding zealot/sentry, keep T in his base while chrono-boosting probes, add 3 more gates and tech to templar.
|
They should just nerf oGs and IM
mvp has complete gamesense and awareness, they should nerf him and make him more slow to think
nestea is THE reactionary protoss they should nerf his reaction a little bit
everything oGsMC does reek of imba, he does army faster and all his unities seems to have more attack power
Jinro has so much charisma and game sense/build order, they should make him more IdrA and nerf his killing buildings too ...
NaDa was overpowered in sc1 and is becoming op in sc2 too, they should nerf 20% his apm and increase 30% of his building construction ....
if people want to talk imba they should consider players not races ....
|
ok, this whole imbalance talk is getting tiring (again). One month ago MC was stating "i have 95% win ration against Terran" and walked all over jinro at the GSL final, now suddendly Protoss cant defend a Terran all in, or have no answer to 1 Rax FE pressure?
Get a grip people, the game is continually evolving and ar a rapid rate, how many "unstoppable" builds and tactics have been nullified since the day of release? If time eventually shows a real imbalance then Blizzard will fix it - as simple as that.
|
I feel like i need to put my 2 cents into all this talk regaurding the "protoss can't expand early vs T".
Its simply not true. Protoss can expand. In tester's case he showed the expo way tooooo early and mvp was able to adapt and throw some quick units at it in the beginning which set tester back. A normal timed fast expo (nexus after core) he would have been fine. Protoss just needs to throw down some photon cannons and it can be held with ease.
|
On January 18 2011 00:42 nvrs wrote:
ok, this whole imbalance talk is getting tiring (again). One month ago MC was stating "i have 95% win ration against Terran" and walked all over jinro at the GSL final, now suddendly Protoss cant defend a Terran all in, or have no answer to 1 Rax FE pressure?
Get a grip people, the game is continually evolving and ar a rapid rate, how many "unstoppable" builds and tactics have been nullified since the day of release? If time eventually shows a real imbalance then Blizzard will fix it - as simple as that.
Agreed. I only watched game one of mvp vs tester but mvp being able to scout that expo so early basically let him do whatever he wanted putting tester on the backfoot from day one. i really feel like that build would have been more suitable for shakuras imo.
|
In mvp's last 17 matches (including the Gisado race war), he's gone:
17-0 in series
31-2 in maps
With wins over (amongst others):
NesTea
MarineKing
FruitDealer
Tester
Choya
NaDa
Zenio
TheStC
IdrA
Leenock
Hyperdub
He's so dominant at this point I think I'd be more surprised see him drop a map en route to winning this GSL than not winning it at all.
Makes you wonder how badly someone like Flash would decimate the competition in SC2 when a mid level BW pro like mvp can ascend to the top so quickly.
|
I love how in game 2 of Nestea vs Choya, Nestea killed the Colossus EXACTLY when Thermal Lance is 99% complete.
|
On January 18 2011 01:04 cuppatea wrote:
In mvp's last 17 matches (including the Gisado race war), he's gone:
17-0 in series
31-2 in maps
With wins over (amongst others):
NesTea
MarineKing
FruitDealer
Tester
Choya
NaDa
Zenio
TheStC
IdrA
Leenock
Hyperdub
He's so dominant at this point I think I'd be more surprised see him drop a map en route to winning this GSL than not winning it at all.
Makes you wonder how badly someone like Flash would decimate the competition in SC2 when a mid level BW pro like mvp can ascend to the top so quickly.
I barely know anything about Flash but if his BW wins depends mostly on his macro mechanics he won't go far in SC2. SC2 depends a lot on timings and strategy.
|
On January 18 2011 01:04 cuppatea wrote:
Makes you wonder how badly someone like Flash would decimate the competition in SC2 when a mid level BW pro like mvp can ascend to the top so quickly.
Seeing other top BW players' results in Sc2 (Nada, July, Boxer), even past their prime, I think we can assume that it's simply not the same game, thus a direct comparison is probably not accurate.
|
How to lose to 1 rax pressure? let a bunker finish building next to your expansion because you never scouted the front of your own base......
i still can't believe he let that happen.
|
jesus people, direct comparison is entirely accurate. At the time when they switched:
Nada, July, Boxer was at the bottom of current SC1 players ==> mediocre SC2 results
MVP was mid SC1 player (infact #15 terran, or around #50 overall) ==> #1 SC2
I barely know anything about Flash but if his BW wins depends mostly on his macro mechanics he won't go far in SC2. SC2 depends a lot on timings and strategy.
If you need to know only one thing about Flash, know that he's a GOD. Legends are his slaves. And can beat IMMvp in SC2 with one eye open, one hand tied.
|
Wow people really hate Terran Matches where the Terran is
A) Not Jinro
B) Wins
Makes me happy to be a Terran
|
On January 18 2011 01:18 Crt wrote:jesus people, direct comparison is entirely accurate. At the time when they switched: Nada, July, Boxer was at the bottom of current SC1 players ==> mediocre SC2 results MVP was mid SC1 player (infact #15 terran, or around #50 overall) ==> #1 SC2 Show nested quote +I barely know anything about Flash but if his BW wins depends mostly on his macro mechanics he won't go far in SC2. SC2 depends a lot on timings and strategy. If you need to know only one thing about Flash, know that he's a GOD. Legends are his slaves. And can beat IMMvp in SC2 with one eye open, one hand tied.
one might call fanboyism of such extreme proportions unhealthy.
|
On January 18 2011 01:09 Dionyseus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2011 01:04 cuppatea wrote:
In mvp's last 17 matches (including the Gisado race war), he's gone:
17-0 in series
31-2 in maps
With wins over (amongst others):
NesTea
MarineKing
FruitDealer
Tester
Choya
NaDa
Zenio
TheStC
IdrA
Leenock
Hyperdub
He's so dominant at this point I think I'd be more surprised see him drop a map en route to winning this GSL than not winning it at all.
Makes you wonder how badly someone like Flash would decimate the competition in SC2 when a mid level BW pro like mvp can ascend to the top so quickly. I barely know anything about Flash but if his BW wins depends mostly on his macro mechanics he won't go far in SC2. SC2 depends a lot on timings and strategy.
Good to point that out that you have no clue otherwise you would provoke a lot of flame.  FlaSh's micro is insanely good (he is known for his superb MnM micro vs mutas and lurkers etc) and he is known for his incredible understand of the game which includes timings and strategy. He once claimed he "reached nirvana" because he basically thought he figured the game out to perfection. FlaSh is the complete player - very close to perfection.
/fanboyism off
|
On January 18 2011 01:18 Crt wrote:jesus people, direct comparison is entirely accurate. At the time when they switched: Nada, July, Boxer was at the bottom of current SC1 players ==> mediocre SC2 results MVP was mid SC1 player (infact #15 terran, or around #50 overall) ==> #1 SC2 Show nested quote +I barely know anything about Flash but if his BW wins depends mostly on his macro mechanics he won't go far in SC2. SC2 depends a lot on timings and strategy. If you need to know only one thing about Flash, know that he's a GOD. Legends are his slaves. And can beat IMMvp in SC2 with one eye open, one hand tied.
So you are using 3 players as your sample size?
Well then it looks like we have a QED here.
It is a different game. Flash would need to learn every single timing and how everything works (much like anyone else). If Flash would play MVP RIGHT NOW in SC2, he would get destroyed. Then a stupid comment would come out, like... But Dude he needs to PRACTICE!!!
WELL THEN ITS NOT THE SAME FUFCKING GAME JESUS CHRIST AYFKM.
Yea.
|
On January 18 2011 01:09 Dionyseus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2011 01:04 cuppatea wrote:
In mvp's last 17 matches (including the Gisado race war), he's gone:
17-0 in series
31-2 in maps
With wins over (amongst others):
NesTea
MarineKing
FruitDealer
Tester
Choya
NaDa
Zenio
TheStC
IdrA
Leenock
Hyperdub
He's so dominant at this point I think I'd be more surprised see him drop a map en route to winning this GSL than not winning it at all.
Makes you wonder how badly someone like Flash would decimate the competition in SC2 when a mid level BW pro like mvp can ascend to the top so quickly. I barely know anything about Flash but if his BW wins depends mostly on his macro mechanics he won't go far in SC2. SC2 depends a lot on timings and strategy.
Flash is pretty much the best terran who ever existed timing and strategy wise, he single handedly eradicated some of the most popular PvT builds of the time (such as 2 base carrier) made look bio-mech viable vs Zerg on some maps (liek goliath-tank-vulture-marine-medic sg totally unheard of before) he also was known for going for the greediest of builds like 15 CC or flat out cheesing multiple times in a row with marines scvs and bunkers vs any race.
So considering those, especially the latter ones, he'd do fine with the current trends.
Also, i hate him
|
On January 18 2011 01:10 Silfurstar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2011 01:04 cuppatea wrote:
Makes you wonder how badly someone like Flash would decimate the competition in SC2 when a mid level BW pro like mvp can ascend to the top so quickly. Seeing other top BW players' results in Sc2 (Nada, July, Boxer), even past their prime, I think we can assume that it's simply not the same game, thus a direct comparison is probably not accurate.
Fruitdealer (coolfou) was a great SC player. Nada, the person who relies more on mechanics than most, seems to be doing well in GSL. Boxer couldn't even be successful in SC over the past few years and is like over 30 now... If he simply made it into his team's lineup it was a rare sight/miracle.
People that are doing well in SC 2 now should be terrified of the thought of players like Flash and Jaedong making the switch. Players that dominant in SC now, obviously, are not just relying on mechanics There would be a huge talent influx if all SC players made the switch, so unless you're one of the absolute top players in SC 2 now, you shouldn't expect to be better than them once they catch up. Only a matter of time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
