EPThe got kinda high in first gsl (compare level of play to gsl 1 and gsl4 btw), accomplished nothing since then, didnt even qualify for gsl2 and 3, and today his fe build fell to fe build of MvP and 1marauder 1marine and 1 scv pressure. he was down 6 probes when MvP 1rax pressure stopped. his forcefields were crazy good, sure, but besides that, nothing really spectacular.
[GSL] Code S Ro8: Day 1 - Page 77
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Lipski
Poland373 Posts
he got kinda high in first gsl (compare level of play to gsl 1 and gsl4 btw), accomplished nothing since then, didnt even qualify for gsl2 and 3, and today his fe build fell to fe build of MvP and 1marauder 1marine and 1 scv pressure. he was down 6 probes when MvP 1rax pressure stopped. his forcefields were crazy good, sure, but besides that, nothing really spectacular. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:33 Providence wrote: Actually, it takes a lot of skill to know when to all-in and when to not. In the first game Tester goes Nexus off of one gate before cyber core and MVP scouted it. Why would you not time an all in right as the expo finishes? Third game MVP macro'd way better than tester. I'm not sure what you're basing your comments off of Lol? Skill to know when to all-in? You wait until you got enough units and your wanted mix, a-click into enemy with scvs, if he was too greedy you'll win handily, if he has a big army, your chances are still fucking huge? | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
mvp didn't "macro way better" than tester. | ||
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Providence
United States125 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:29 Asha` wrote: MVP vs Z has been brutal to watch lately, completely annihilated all of them and I see him doing that again to NesTea too. ---- Tester reminds me of the sort of flashy sports star that people love to watch because he does some exciting and clutch plays at times, even if he gets beaten by poor mistakes at others. Like a tennis player who saves match point with an incredible winner, only to double fault the next point and throw the match away. That doesn't necessarily mean he will beat NesTea though. It's specifically built into the race for Zerg not to be like a huge sledge hammer built around a timing push like Terran or Protoss. NesTea hasn't dropped a single game yet, against Terran opponents either. His play is very quiet compared to MVPs. I'm not saying he's going to win, but simply reminding people that Zerg looking like they're about to die right before the win is pretty much Zerg MO. | ||
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ZeNd0kUn
United States331 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:32 Scoop wrote: MC winning was a fluke? JulyZerg, MarineKing and Jinro were awful?MC winning was a fluke. His opponents were awful. | ||
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Providence
United States125 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:36 Elefanto wrote: Lol? Skill to know when to all-in? You wait until you got enough units and your wanted mix, a-click into enemy with scvs, if he was too greedy you'll win handily, if he has a big army, your chances are still fucking huge? Since all-ins seem to be so strong, we'll be seeing you in next season's GSL amiright? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
The third game was very well played by MVP, he went for a pressure build into expention which is actually safer then going for an exp simply, and he took a semi-hidden third base, but if tester would have searched for one, that's the second most likely spot to be in, right next to the first most likely. Overall not good enough play from tester, really abusive and clever play from MVP, the next gsl champion | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:24 Providence wrote: is what easily comes to mind that I can find Thank's for the effort...but...really? I mean this game was played ages ago, demuslim made 3 rax ghosts. Maybe I haven't made myself clear enough, I HAVE seen one gate stargate voidray play, but not: a) in a style that is not all-in b) recently c) successfully (MC tried it vs TOP and failed; one game of his 0-4) Sorry for being so jerky, but I've played with one gate stargate voidray a lot in the past and always found that I kinda had to outplay any terran going for 2 rax expo. The reason being, that terrans will get vikings vs voidrays which means I can't really get colossi unless I do terrible harassment damage and would win anyways. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
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palookieblue
Australia326 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:36 Lachrymose wrote: how are you people coming up with the idea that playing a macro game in the position tester was in g3 was in any way a viable idea? mvp didn't "macro way better" than tester. Let's put our thinking caps on. Can't I say the same thing back to you? What's the point of MVP playing a macro game in set 1+2 when Tester expanded first? He'd be playing behind the whole game. Wasn't going all-in a more viable option? MVP certainly out-macro'd Tester in game 3. He gained an advantage with an early poke, and safely expanded behind the pressure. He could have just gone for a massive two-base push, but instead he went for more bases, more production facilities, held of Tester's 2 base all-in, and crushed him. If that isn't macro at work then please enlighten me. (: | ||
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anatem
Romania1369 Posts
as it stands right now, none of the guys left in code s are gonna be able to take him out. despite his loss in the ro16, mc was still the best player of any race that could've made it to the ro8. not even macrojinro or zergod nestea are at mvp's current level (regardless of mvp allining and bunker rushing and shit) mvp, the first terran gsl champ, i'm pretty sure about this UNLESS nestea teaches him a lesson with the help of the gods, which i would love to see, but realistically won't happen (still, here's me silently hoping jinro makes a miracle of old testament biblical proportions happen and wins this whole thing) | ||
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headies
United States63 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:35 Lipski wrote: how can you guys hold tester is such high regard? he got kinda high in first gsl (compare level of play to gsl 1 and gsl4 btw), accomplished nothing since then, didnt even qualify for gsl2 and 3, and today his fe build fell to fe build of MvP and 1marauder 1marine and 1 scv pressure. he was down 6 probes when MvP 1rax pressure stopped. his forcefields were crazy good, sure, but besides that, nothing really spectacular. First game, incredibly risky build that got punished by a single hellion and group of marines, something I'm sure Tester hadn't encountered before. Really, him losing to an all-in was inevitable at that point because it is so insanely hard to come back in this game. Second game, slightly less risky build (still risky nonetheless) but still lost because he didn't have the right unit composition and didn't react perfectly which is pretty much what you have to do in that kind of situation (you FE and get all-inn'd). Third game, has to be shaken a little bit by now. Obviously more prone to making mistakes at this point. Doesn't scout third and assumes his 2 base all-in would have a chance. Tester is a very good player, but as Artosis was pointing out he has lost to these type of banshee/marine/raven type all-ins quite often in the past. Certainly MVP knew about this. I do question why he decided to play so risky in all those games though. Perhaps he thought there was no way he would get all-in'd two games in a row. Then after getting all-ind twice he thought "well no way that could happen THREE times!" but fell so far behind because of a pressure/expand build that he was completely unprepared for. | ||
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Deekin[
Serbia1713 Posts
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hp.Shell
United States2527 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:41 palookieblue wrote: Let's put our thinking caps on. Can't I say the same thing back to you? What's the point of MVP playing a macro game in set 1+2 when Tester expanded first? He'd be playing behind the whole game. Wasn't going all-in a more viable option? MVP certainly out-macro'd Tester in game 3. He gained an advantage with an early poke, and safely expanded behind the pressure. He could have just gone for a massive two-base push, but instead he went for more bases, more production facilities, held of Tester's 2 base all-in, and crushed him. If that isn't macro at work then please enlighten me. (: My definition of "pro/gosu macro" involves mining from 3-4+ bases at once, and still keeping money low by making units and supply structures/overlords. Note this doesn't mean "has 3 bases," it means there are 3-4+ lines of minerals being mined, meaning a higher degree of concentration is required to maintain macro. There is a certain number of bases most players can be mining from at the same time without getting high money in the bank. Pros/gosus go beyond that amount. | ||
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WeeKeong
United States282 Posts
Basically, the reason why the games were lame is because Tester chose to FE every single game. Don't blame MVP for crushing greedy play, blame tester for being greedy. | ||
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Providence
United States125 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:40 sleepingdog wrote: Thank's for the effort...but...really? I mean this game was played ages ago, demuslim made 3 rax ghosts. Maybe I haven't made myself clear enough, I HAVE seen one gate stargate voidray play, but not: a) in a style that is not all-in b) recently c) successfully (MC tried it vs TOP and failed; one game of his 0-4) Sorry for being so jerky, but I've played with one gate stargate voidray a lot in the past and always found that I kinda had to outplay any terran going for 2 rax expo. What do you expect when you make the claim implying WhiteRa's never done it and believing others who have should have on hand stellar replays or VoDs to fit stringent criteria you never mentioned? Plus why would it matter if it's recent or not? For one I DID say he PIONEERED it, and two all the changes since then haven't made it an unviable strategy. I also recall MC v MarineKing on LostTemple where it was quite strong. | ||
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cordlc
United States360 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:21 Providence wrote: I'm assuming you meant MC v Jinro in season 3? Cause that was nothing like MC v Jinro in this season :o Yeah, I did say GSL3 (it's in what you quoted). Though I did edit it in later to clarify, quotes aren't updated automatically here are they? Also wanted to add, those complaining about not being impressed with mvp's play just don't understand the game. He's not obligated to play some macro game in order to entertain you, he's going to use the builds that will give him the highest chance of success. I doubt he's lost very many times (if ever) with the raven+stim build he uses on fast expanding protoss, which is why he'd go so far as pulling SCV's (because not doing so would make it a half-assed all-in, not smart). If he has such a high chance of winning doing so, why wouldn't he? The fault lies on the loser, Tester, who used an unsafe fast-expo build, just like Jinro did twice with MC last season. Blame him for the boring games, if you must. Now I know, what probably makes people rage is seeing the SCV's being pulled for battle. However, the only reason we don't see something like that from protoss, is because they can infuse resources directly into the battle via warpgates. A proxy pylon is all they need for an equivalent "15 SCV's in your face." Terran don't have this ability, hence the combat SCV's. | ||
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ftd.rain
United Kingdom539 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:40 Phenny wrote: Guise, there is a difference between blind all-ins for the sake of it (bitbybit), and doing them as a response to what you see your opponent doing, such as expanding which means less units (ie a good time for mvp to attack). All-ins are extremely lame and easy to win with however you may put it(bitbybit can't win with it cos his micro is as good as any WoW player), period.Tsl_Rain managing to get to the finals is proof enough, need we discuss more? | ||
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Providence
United States125 Posts
On January 17 2011 20:45 hp.Shell wrote: My definition of "pro/gosu macro" involves mining from 3-4+ bases at once, and still keeping money low by making units and supply structures/overlords. Note this doesn't mean "has 3 bases," it means there are 3-4+ lines of minerals being mined, meaning a higher degree of concentration is required to maintain macro. There is a certain number of bases most players can be mining from at the same time without getting high money in the bank. Pros/gosus go beyond that amount. Pros/gosus also know not to use a nuke when a single gunshot will do. | ||
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affliction
Germany198 Posts
i agree with that | ||
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