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elevengaming's SC2 Midwest Championship $2000+ - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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nGBeast
Profile Joined July 2010
United States914 Posts
January 24 2011 16:50 GMT
#41
Hopefully the maps get finalized soon because id like to practice them. This is why I don't like adding nonstandard maps
CatsPajamas
Profile Joined October 2010
United States337 Posts
January 25 2011 03:30 GMT
#42
On January 25 2011 00:51 Nizzy wrote:
Cats is pretty devotes a good 40 hours/week into shoutcasting. He's probably casted more games in SC2 than you've played. With all his experience I'm positive he'd know which games would give really good games for ALL RACES.


^_^

Anyway, I'm less sure of the iCCup maps right now. Many are just fine, but the GSL maps are so freaking good its just hard to pass those up. My ideal map list from a caster's perspective would be:

Metalopolis
Lost Temple
Xel Naga Caverns
Shakuras Plateau
Crossfire
Tal Darim Altar
Crevasse
Legacy of the Void
http://twitter.com/kevinknocke
nGBeast
Profile Joined July 2010
United States914 Posts
January 25 2011 07:23 GMT
#43
I don't know if adding so many is right, maybe one or 2 because most players don't practice those if at all and adding 3 or 4 seems like over hall
Nizzy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States839 Posts
January 25 2011 16:41 GMT
#44
On January 25 2011 16:23 nGBeast wrote:
I don't know if adding so many is right, maybe one or 2 because most players don't practice those if at all and adding 3 or 4 seems like over hall


That's a good point Beast.

Maybe we should do 4-5 ladder maps, 1-2 iCCup Maps, and 1-2 GSL maps?
CatsPajamas
Profile Joined October 2010
United States337 Posts
January 25 2011 16:57 GMT
#45
On January 26 2011 01:41 Nizzy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 16:23 nGBeast wrote:
I don't know if adding so many is right, maybe one or 2 because most players don't practice those if at all and adding 3 or 4 seems like over hall


That's a good point Beast.

Maybe we should do 4-5 ladder maps, 1-2 iCCup Maps, and 1-2 GSL maps?


If you take 2 GSL maps, after looking at the updated list, do Tal Darim Altar and Legacy of the Void. You won't be disappointed with some of the matches you'll get. Trust me.
http://twitter.com/kevinknocke
ShinyGerbil
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada519 Posts
January 25 2011 16:59 GMT
#46
On January 20 2011 09:33 FrodaN wrote:
GO GERBILLLLLLL

yayayayay ^_^

in response to maps, my personal preference is no GSL maps (right now i'm not even considering iccup, just because as an organization gsl has way more credibility). But if 1-2 of the gsl maps that are fairly similar gameplay wise to existing blizzard maps were introduced, I wouldn't be mad (until i lose on them heheh)

Maybe you could even have some rule like at most 1 gsl map can be played per set, so that players who aren't as familiar with them won't feel as disadvantaged.
[s]savior[/s] jaedong fighting! // member of LighT eSports
Antimage
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1293 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-25 17:03:53
January 25 2011 17:03 GMT
#47
Take out Crossfire please, I don't even know why that map is in the map pool - large ramp like scrap station and the opening to the natural is too large so you can't even wall that off as terran or protoss.
CatsPajamas
Profile Joined October 2010
United States337 Posts
January 25 2011 17:35 GMT
#48
On January 26 2011 02:03 Antimage wrote:
Take out Crossfire please, I don't even know why that map is in the map pool - large ramp like scrap station and the opening to the natural is too large so you can't even wall that off as terran or protoss.


It's not in. So far only official ladder maps are in the map pool. Other maps that have been thrown around are just ideas. So have no fear! What maps would you like to see?
http://twitter.com/kevinknocke
how
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States538 Posts
January 25 2011 17:44 GMT
#49
This sounds amazing! I have been hoping SOMETHING would happen in St. Louis soon, and you guys just did it even bigger than I could have hoped, you guys rock!
http://twitter.com/howsc
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
January 26 2011 05:59 GMT
#50
Personally, I see a huge upside, because the stakes are high enough, to only go with maps available to all for mass practice (ladder maps). Trimming the ladder pool DOWN is probably a good idea but adding maps can be difficult for all to find practice on.

I love the GSL maps (don't really care for the iCCup maps myself) but I just see better games happening on a map where I have 300 games played instead of 25.

That being said, more important than what maps is that a pool be finalized soon. If there is going to be iccup or gsl maps please say so soon so that we can get our practice in.

Love how this event is looking so far. Domino (v1dom) looks very organized and dedicated. This event is going to be awesome because of that.
Nizzy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States839 Posts
January 26 2011 17:44 GMT
#51
Well if people don't want iCCup/gsl because of limited practice I can agree with that.

If most people want to just use ladder maps (which it seems like that is whats wanted the majority)... we cannot just pick "5" ladder maps because person "x" thinks they are the balanced.

We would have to allow all ladder maps. What we could do is before every match have each player talk really fast and veto 2 or 3 maps. So then each player v player has like 3-4 maps to choose from for their bo1, or bo3.

Zergs aren't going to want Delta Q. Terrans are. So is it really balanced or just bad for 1 race? Half the ladder maps are bad but if you're going to say "ladder maps only" who is to say which ones are really balanced?
CatsPajamas
Profile Joined October 2010
United States337 Posts
January 26 2011 17:54 GMT
#52
The veto process would be fine, actually, just allow all maps. Maps like Scrap Station are fun to cast, then, as long as there's not a Zerg involved. I think this may actually be better.
http://twitter.com/kevinknocke
Antimage
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1293 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-26 17:59:43
January 26 2011 17:58 GMT
#53
On January 27 2011 02:44 Nizzy wrote:
Well if people don't want iCCup/gsl because of limited practice I can agree with that.

If most people want to just use ladder maps (which it seems like that is whats wanted the majority)... we cannot just pick "5" ladder maps because person "x" thinks they are the balanced.

We would have to allow all ladder maps. What we could do is before every match have each player talk really fast and veto 2 or 3 maps. So then each player v player has like 3-4 maps to choose from for their bo1, or bo3.

Zergs aren't going to want Delta Q. Terrans are. So is it really balanced or just bad for 1 race? Half the ladder maps are bad but if you're going to say "ladder maps only" who is to say which ones are really balanced?


Better that maps that have established imbalance features that all players know how to take advantage of be disallowed - than maps where there may be imbalance features, but haven't been explored enough to take advantage of.

There are strategies in ZvP on scrap station that can only be stopped by assuming it is being done (no scouting window), and taking an immediate disadvantage in order to have the capability of beating it, wihle taking a huge setback in the mid-game if that strategy wasn't being used - and frankly, I'd have to say that my ZvP on scrap station is much better than my PvP on it, and if I had to play this map, I'd learn ZvP and ZvZ for the tournament.
Alizee-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States845 Posts
January 26 2011 18:13 GMT
#54
Ladder pool with vetoes sounds best to me.
Strength behind the Pride
Nizzy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States839 Posts
January 26 2011 19:42 GMT
#55
@Antimage

I agree with everything you're saying, I really do, but anyway you try to type it out...it still goes back to my original point. You're saying remove scrap because its impossible for race X to win against race X unless that's all you prepare for.

So are we going to only allow Protoss favored maps because Toss can't beat Zerg on "X"? The same could be said on X for Terran vs X, and etc for Zerg until you have 0 maps left.

I'm a Terran that struggles on Xel Naga vs Zerg but near impossible for me to lose on Delta Quad. So the Zerg I play in round X, will veto Delta, I will Veto Xel Naga. If each player gets 3 vetos, that leaves a good 3 maps to play on. Each player will probably get similar situations in ladder that they would get on Bnet.

I really don't see a more fair way. I think Steppes is a horrible map while some might think its a perfectly balanced smaller map. So I think this veto system with allowing the full 9 ladder maps or whatever + SHAK PLAT if its not currently in the pool is the best option.

Here's the starting map per each round:

Round of 128: Steppes of War
Round of 64: Scrap Station
Round of 32: TBA
Round of 16:TBA
Round of 8: Lost Temple
Round of 4: Metalopolis

Championship Round: Xel’Naga Caverns

I think maps like Steppes/SS probably shouldn't be starting maps. Maybe rotate LT/Metal/XelNaga/ShakPlat or something.


CatsPajamas
Profile Joined October 2010
United States337 Posts
January 26 2011 20:54 GMT
#56
On January 27 2011 04:42 Nizzy wrote:
@Antimage

Clipped.


I think he's saying he'd rather have all the ladder maps, imbalanced ones and all, then introducing new maps that only some players will be able to take advantage of.

By the way, I suggest throwing Shakuras Plateau into the list of maps that start rounds.
http://twitter.com/kevinknocke
v1dom
Profile Joined August 2010
159 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-27 00:25:14
January 27 2011 00:20 GMT
#57
As the debate rages on about the map pool, I am pleased to announce that Themaltake has agreed to join on as a sponsor for the MWC. We will be getting several more items that will be added to the prize pool! With Thermaltake's generous package of prizes, we expect the prize pool to now exceed $3000!

We will be detailing how these prizes will be added to the prize pool within the next week or so.

On the map note, I have been getting a lot of inquiry into a decision. As the voting is close, it is likely I will add one GSL map to the pool, and allow players one veto per match. I think this is a fair compromise, as people who don't want to play on the GSL map are free to veto it, and those that do will have one veto available for another map (say, Scrap). If the map is the starting map for that round, you will not be able to veto it.

That is not the final decision, but what I am leaning toward. I will let the debate continue for awhile longer before making the final call, if anyone has any additional comments or arguements they'd like to make.
elevengaming / 4Kings - retired
Antimage
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1293 Posts
January 27 2011 00:45 GMT
#58
That's awesome news! Can't wait!
j0k3r
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States577 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-27 00:52:27
January 27 2011 00:50 GMT
#59
^^ Sick news. Did you guys find a caster for the event?

If the budget allows, Day9 + DJWheat are second to none. Or perhaps.. INC CASTING
j0k3r
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States577 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-27 00:52:17
January 27 2011 00:51 GMT
#60
double post
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