• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:29
CEST 17:29
KST 00:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 20266Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion GG Lan Fest Sofia, Bulgaria [this November] Fantasy returning? Sagi.gg Launcher Released BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal A [ASL22] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10858 users

[GSL] S3 Ro8 Day 1 - Page 28

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 26 27 28 29 30 158 Next
Gudeldar
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1200 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 10:46:02
December 06 2010 10:45 GMT
#541
Stop quoting Ret already, we get it.
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
December 06 2010 10:45 GMT
#542
Game 3 Shakuras
Rain top left
NesTea bottom right
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
ThePieRate
Profile Joined September 2010
United States263 Posts
December 06 2010 10:45 GMT
#543
I don't why you wouldnt go for a very early pool like 11 or 12, if everyone is saying that 2 rax is basically a auto win on steppes. He could easily get a spine up before the rush starts or would have to stall him for like 10 seconds...
positron.
Profile Joined May 2010
634 Posts
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#544
On December 06 2010 19:45 Lann555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 19:43 Gudeldar wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:41 Lann555 wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:39 zemiron wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:35 zak wrote:
i used to hate this all in stuff but I understand why terran does it. Mid game and late game you cannot stop zerg unless you are at least on par with bases. once zerg can mass banelings the game is over. perfect micro is needed and you just cant have perfect marine micro every game. Too many variables. Blizz needs to work on this so we can have more even macro games. my 2 cents.


If Jinro can win a macro game against zergs, then I expect these Korean Terrans who are supposed to be the best in the world to do it as well.


I'm not convinced that style is viable untill he pulls it off vs a top-level zerg which Moon is not. Moon played very poorly in their series and failed to capitalize on Jinro's passive play. He never even got hive up in either game


True, if he can pull that style off against NesTea or FruitDealer then I will believe its possible. I don't think I've ever seen a Terran survive the Brood Lord/Ultralisk tech switch.


Ye, the big problem with that style is that a Zerg who reacts properly will just take the map and tech quickly to Broodlords instead of investing too much in troops. Once Broodlords come out, Jinro's marine/tank mix just gets stomped hard. Maybe Jinro has a solution for that problem but Ill believe it when I see it

Let's hope he makes it to the final so we can see his TvZ.
LoLAdriankat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4307 Posts
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#545
On December 06 2010 19:45 Lann555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 19:43 Gudeldar wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:41 Lann555 wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:39 zemiron wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:35 zak wrote:
i used to hate this all in stuff but I understand why terran does it. Mid game and late game you cannot stop zerg unless you are at least on par with bases. once zerg can mass banelings the game is over. perfect micro is needed and you just cant have perfect marine micro every game. Too many variables. Blizz needs to work on this so we can have more even macro games. my 2 cents.


If Jinro can win a macro game against zergs, then I expect these Korean Terrans who are supposed to be the best in the world to do it as well.


I'm not convinced that style is viable untill he pulls it off vs a top-level zerg which Moon is not. Moon played very poorly in their series and failed to capitalize on Jinro's passive play. He never even got hive up in either game


True, if he can pull that style off against NesTea or FruitDealer then I will believe its possible. I don't think I've ever seen a Terran survive the Brood Lord/Ultralisk tech switch.


Ye, the big problem with that style is that a Zerg who reacts properly will just take the map and tech quickly to Broodlords instead of investing too much in troops. Once Broodlords come out, Jinro's marine/tank mix just gets stomped hard. Maybe Jinro has a solution for that problem but Ill believe it when I see it

Jinro is very good at reacting to his opponent, so I figure he'll have a response by the time brood lords are out.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#546
On December 06 2010 19:42 Zaka wrote:
When even people like FruitDealer say that the TvZ match-up is favoured towards Zerg, especially mid-game and beyond, then why do people get so whiny in here when Terran decides to finish the game early on?


Probably because all these marine+scv all-ins are painful to watch and nowhere as entertaining as the long, drawn-out macro TvZs that occasionally occur. I think most people think that macro-style is the proper way to play SC, though cheese will always be part of the game.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#547
Artosis is Jealous :D
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#548
On December 06 2010 19:45 ThePieRate wrote:
I don't why you wouldnt go for a very early pool like 11 or 12, if everyone is saying that 2 rax is basically a auto win on steppes. He could easily get a spine up before the rush starts or would have to stall him for like 10 seconds...

Terran can just scout you... and choose to not all in and throw down a CC instead. -_-
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#549
On December 06 2010 19:43 ZapRoffo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 19:43 Shikyo wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:39 TehForce wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:36 Liquid`Ret wrote:
people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked

not to mention you have to blindly make ~20 lings in that case so if terran just stops after 5 mariens and puts down a CC you are economically fucked

nestea fucked up his drone/ling control pretty bad there but hatch first is the only choice really...hency why steppes is auto loss vs terran, im sure nestea expected to lose set 2


Listen to ret. All those non-zerg players telling us just to pool first and we would be fine should get a practice partner and try that on steppes. then we talk again

If you pool-first early enough, the first inject will come before you're dead. Also, 14 gas-pool can hold this pretty well.

Pool first can defend the super early scv all-in, but it loses to the later mass marine buildup because of production.

There's not much difference in production, and I'm always of the opinion that it's better to just survive, even with a disadvantage, because the later the game lasts the more chances the opponent has of making mistakes.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Mainland
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada551 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 10:46:49
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#550
On December 06 2010 19:41 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 19:36 Liquid`Ret wrote:
people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked

not to mention you have to blindly make ~20 lings in that case so if terran just stops after 5 mariens and puts down a CC you are economically fucked

nestea fucked up his drone/ling control pretty bad there but hatch first is the only choice really...hency why steppes is auto loss vs terran, im sure nestea expected to lose set 2


Yup agreed I don't understand how people here don't understand that pool first isn't any better as you have less larva like you said and your behind economically if the terran player plops down an expo.

You know your in a bad spot when terran starts his expo before you :/


This argument is incorrect. Pool first with queen has pretty much the same larva production as hatch first.

source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117908

You can't say hatch first has an economic advantage when it forces zerg to take 6-10 drones off mining to defend.
Sylvr
Profile Joined May 2010
United States524 Posts
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#551
O.o GomTV said that today's live tickets were sold out, but tomorrow's were available. I wanted to watch Jinro anyway, so I went ahead and bought tomorrow's. Somehow, it gave me access to today's show. I'll take it!
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#552
Fast fast stim
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
ktimekiller
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States690 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 10:46:50
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#553
On December 06 2010 19:45 ThePieRate wrote:
I don't why you wouldnt go for a very early pool like 11 or 12, if everyone is saying that 2 rax is basically a auto win on steppes. He could easily get a spine up before the rush starts or would have to stall him for like 10 seconds...


2rax can transition into a SAFE fast expo

11 pooler with lings gets fucked and loses
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 10:47:26
December 06 2010 10:46 GMT
#554
I have a hard time believing TvZ steppes is an autoloss considering Fruit held off Foxer's allin on Metal close positions, which is almost exactly the same rush distance.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
LoLAdriankat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4307 Posts
December 06 2010 10:47 GMT
#555
On December 06 2010 19:46 Sylvr wrote:
O.o GomTV said that today's live tickets were sold out, but tomorrow's were available. I wanted to watch Jinro anyway, so I went ahead and bought tomorrow's. Somehow, it gave me access to today's show. I'll take it!

It's free to watch the GSL live in standard quality.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
December 06 2010 10:47 GMT
#556
On December 06 2010 19:46 Jyvblamo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 19:45 ThePieRate wrote:
I don't why you wouldnt go for a very early pool like 11 or 12, if everyone is saying that 2 rax is basically a auto win on steppes. He could easily get a spine up before the rush starts or would have to stall him for like 10 seconds...

Terran can just scout you... and choose to not all in and throw down a CC instead. -_-

So you can go into a macro game pretty much even... doesn't sound bad to me.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Gudeldar
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1200 Posts
December 06 2010 10:47 GMT
#557
On December 06 2010 19:46 iEchoic wrote:
I have a hard time believing TvZ steppes is an autoloss considering Nestea held off Foxer's allin on Metal close positions, which is almost exactly the same rush distance.


Its not always an autoloss but you need pretty much perfect control to survive.
bokeevboke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Singapore1674 Posts
December 06 2010 10:47 GMT
#558
On December 06 2010 19:43 Moonwrath wrote:
I still don't see how hatch first is better. You pull all your drones off of mining anyway so you can't even use all your larva anyway. Pool first get a spinecrawler, then get an in base hatch if you need the larva so badly. Expand once you defend everything. It's certainly a lot safer than trying to hatch first against someone that is rushing you. It just makes no sense when you know some kind of very fast rush is coming to go for an econ build as opposed to a defensive build.


I think no one can explain you why hatch first better. You need to play more and watch more high level games. Day 9 is great in explaining these stuff, timings, BO, eco-management so on.
Its grack
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 06 2010 10:47 GMT
#559
On December 06 2010 19:46 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 19:43 ZapRoffo wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:43 Shikyo wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:39 TehForce wrote:
On December 06 2010 19:36 Liquid`Ret wrote:
people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked

not to mention you have to blindly make ~20 lings in that case so if terran just stops after 5 mariens and puts down a CC you are economically fucked

nestea fucked up his drone/ling control pretty bad there but hatch first is the only choice really...hency why steppes is auto loss vs terran, im sure nestea expected to lose set 2


Listen to ret. All those non-zerg players telling us just to pool first and we would be fine should get a practice partner and try that on steppes. then we talk again

If you pool-first early enough, the first inject will come before you're dead. Also, 14 gas-pool can hold this pretty well.

Pool first can defend the super early scv all-in, but it loses to the later mass marine buildup because of production.

There's not much difference in production, and I'm always of the opinion that it's better to just survive, even with a disadvantage, because the later the game lasts the more chances the opponent has of making mistakes.


The problem is its not a small disadvantage. Your at a huge disadvantage as he'll just bunker your ramp and plop down an expo. There is a huge difference and really if your praying to win on your opponent making mistakes thats never good!
When I think of something else, something will go here
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
December 06 2010 10:47 GMT
#560
On December 06 2010 19:46 iEchoic wrote:
I have a hard time believing TvZ steppes is an autoloss considering Fruit held off Foxer's allin on Metal close positions, which is almost exactly the same rush distance.

Nestea's micro today on it was very poor.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
Prev 1 26 27 28 29 30 158 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
22:00
King of the Hill #264
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
MaxPax 306
OGKoka 287
Codebar 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 40720
Calm 3844
Shuttle 1918
Bisu 1629
FanTaSy 1456
Mini 1103
Soma 701
Rush 581
EffOrt 477
Stork 328
[ Show more ]
Light 296
actioN 282
Snow 249
Hyuk 246
firebathero 210
ZerO 209
Dewaltoss 96
Zeus 85
Barracks 80
hero 71
Sea.KH 51
Shinee 48
Killer 46
Pusan 36
Sharp 36
Hyun 35
ToSsGirL 31
Bale 29
Free 26
Shine 20
Yoon 20
Aegong 18
PianO 17
HiyA 16
sorry 16
zelot 15
yabsab 13
Sacsri 9
Dota 2
Gorgc9017
Dendi1002
League of Legends
KnowMe36
Counter-Strike
x6flipin674
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes570
Lowko366
Other Games
singsing2300
hiko1591
B2W.Neo357
byalli269
Liquid`VortiX186
Livibee185
mouzStarbuck172
Hui .169
Beastyqt72
Mew2King71
Trikslyr62
Rex25
RotterdaM23
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV255
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 6
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 49
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV248
League of Legends
• Nemesis2655
Other Games
• Shiphtur504
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 46m
Replay Cast
7h 31m
OSC
1d 7h
Big Brain Bouts
1d 18h
Rex vs INexorable
GgMaChine vs HeRoMaRinE
Reynor vs herO
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.