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[GSL] S3 Ro8 Day 1 - Page 102

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Zaurus
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore676 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 12:09:02
December 06 2010 12:08 GMT
#2021
i think FE is an extremely risky build to go. FE stargate is strong if zerg do nothing about it. thats what i think.Nice try going baneling bust, but i think roach or nydus might be better.
karlmengsk
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada230 Posts
December 06 2010 12:08 GMT
#2022
On December 06 2010 21:06 LoLAdriankat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 21:00 Liquid`Ret wrote:
heh people just see the games and dont think about them ... pretty sure fruitdealer assumed hongun would do fe into stargates which is really strong on scrap, 90% of protoss do it. (YES BLIZZARD THEY DO NOT NEED A BUFF) and against that a baneling/ling bust wouldve been really smart, i like his play

Playing based off assumptions is always risky. Kinda like when you play against someone that you know how he plays, but he does or doesn't do a signature strat of his to throw you off.

Playing without making assumptions is just as risky, in fact you can't even do it unless you have map hacks.
That puppy is killing e-sports
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 06 2010 12:08 GMT
#2023
Damn am I delusional or did I just see Stork instead of HongUn
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Flummie
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands417 Posts
December 06 2010 12:08 GMT
#2024
So how much is it between FD and Hongun atm? Spoiler didn't update
ผมพยายามหาคำตอบอยู่ตลอดเวลา
JeanLuc
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada377 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2025
Hong Un gonna win this and then make it to the finals! Where he will lose.
If you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth-- you don't deserve to wear that uniform
kojinshugi
Profile Joined August 2010
Estonia2559 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2026
On December 06 2010 21:08 Flummie wrote:
So how much is it between FD and Hongun atm? Spoiler didn't update


1:1
whatsgrackalackin420
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2027
artosis was so wrong about his roach comment on scrap station.

He states that it's basically a virtual win if you go direct roach against forge like that but thats complete bull, protoss on this level know how to deal with roaches very well.

First of all the distance is fairly long so it takes quite some time to get the roaches there. THe way hongun walled off you can simply get 3 cannons at the forge wall and be completely roach safe there (you position them so the roaches can't attack 1 cannon and not being hit by all 3 cannons while covering all your buildings).
Once you scout roach warrren toss simply goes superfast stargate and gets voids then. THe zerg can only bust down the rocks then which takes time and WHEN zerg does that toss simply retreats the probes to his main, which the roaches cant follow. THe voidray and a few stalkers then pound on the roaches while the roaches can only hit the nexus which will probably survive or at least trade for all roaches.
The only other threat then is a nydus worm. GOod scouting pylons, along with some probes easily deal with that.

SImply stating FD made a huge strategic blunder is just stupid from artosis again. SOmetimes his views on the game are just so wrong (like his general thoughts about 14 hatch for example..). Great commentary in general but sometimes just ow so wrong....
johanngrunt
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Hong Kong1555 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2028
I just hope there's no Z in the finals. TvZ is quite painful to watch now.

TvT or TvP would be more interesting. (could have a PvP, but not likely)
Vitamins
Profile Joined October 2010
United States680 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2029
On December 06 2010 21:08 Flummie wrote:
So how much is it between FD and Hongun atm? Spoiler didn't update


1-1, Shakuras Plateau now, FD top left spawn, Hong top right spawn.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2030
On December 06 2010 21:08 Flummie wrote:
So how much is it between FD and Hongun atm? Spoiler didn't update


its 1-1 game 3 on shakuras right now.
When I think of something else, something will go here
NeoLearner
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Belgium1847 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2031
On December 06 2010 21:08 Flummie wrote:
So how much is it between FD and Hongun atm? Spoiler didn't update

1-1 if I followed correctly.

FD took Steppes and HongUn took Scrap.
Bankai - Correlation does not imply causation
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2032
On December 06 2010 21:06 Gr4ndmasterSexy wrote:
i dont understand rets point... its not like the zerg could not scout in this game. he could easily scout the toss base, because the toss only got 1 sentry which needs hours for a overlord and he can scout the whole base... then he could easily see that there was a gateway build and no stargates... but okay.. just my few cents.

They're playing mind game here, FD thinks that Hongun, who loves to use air, will use air in the best map for using air. Hongun outpoker him, he knows that he knows that he knows, so he 8 gate :D
MiniTsunami
Profile Joined June 2010
United States274 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2033
On December 06 2010 21:09 JeanLuc wrote:
Hong Un gonna win this and then make it to the finals! Where he will lose.

Never! Fruit Dealer is going to Deal massive amounts of Gosu Devil's Fruit
Learn from the mistakes of others, because you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
gnutz
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany666 Posts
December 06 2010 12:09 GMT
#2034
i still think scrap is zerg favored vs protoss. if you go hydras straight up, you counter stargate play and mass gateway play AND do not cheese AND can attack through the rocks with really short distance. imo that's why double robo is the only good way to play on this map, but then mutas are just stronger.

i really dont get it, why all zergs now say that it is balanced. I doubt anyone has played PvZ on this map.

metal and some other maps are balanced, because the rush distance isnt so short that you force hydra play and then die to the first wave of hydras.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
December 06 2010 12:10 GMT
#2035
On December 06 2010 21:08 Doko wrote:
How is stargate play strong on any map vs zerg when you can just make infestors and kill them all once mutas reach critical mass.

This is not a "I WANT TO BE RIGHT ON THE INTERNET" post. I really don't see the reasoning behind that statement.


there's a huge amount of time where you need to defend properly against phx and voids before you can get infestors.


On December 05 2010 04:03 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 03:39 Krigwin wrote:
On December 05 2010 03:05 kcdc wrote:
You can say that Protoss doesn't need phoenixes to beat mutas, but that's another argument. Blizzard intends for phoenixes to be a viable counter to mutas. Fungal growth breaks that.

No, phoenixes are a viable counter to mutas. They just aren't a viable counter to mutas + infestors. If you want a single unit to counter entire unit combinations, then that's just imbalance. Plus you're talking as if fungal growth singlehandedly counters an entire fleet of phoenixes. That's like saying a single baneling counters an entire ball of marines.


Not to mention, the most egregious effect of this nerf will be the forcing of corruptors, a poorly designed unit. Namely, a P that has some mass phoenix to deal with muta, after dealing with the muta, can put their phoenixes to great use, scouting, harassing, even using them in direct engagements by lifting units. Once Z has dealt with phoenixes using corruptors, the corruptors become entirely useless. This is therefore an underhanded nerf to Z, not just infestors, an already underused unit.


Okay, after this, I'm done arguing with people who don't understand the game, but I'll lay this out one more time to be as clear as possible.

Let's say I'm playing a normal PvZ. Zerg went FE and I expanded behind gateway pressure. I research hallucination and scout a spire mostly complete. This is a typical progression in the match-up.

At this point, Blizzard intends for me to be able quickly make a few cannons and stalkers and then pump phoenixes and contain the muta harass. So I build a cannon at my main and my nat and throw down 2 stargates and get my stalkers in position to defend my base till my phoenixes are ready. I constantly chronoboost phoenixes out of both stargates, but Zerg had a head start on muta production and their production mechanic allows them to stay well ahead in air unit count and maintain map control with only gas spending, so they take their 3rd while I'm contained on 2 bases.

I continue pumping phoenixes knowing that they're cost-effective against mutas, but Zerg refuses to stop muta production. Soon, it's 2-base P with 12 phoenixes against 3-base Z with 25 mutalisks and 1 infestor. Despite the fact that I've seemingly timely responded to the mutalisks with exactly the right unit, I'm literally 1 well-placed fungal growth away from losing the game. Tho I've scouted well and responded 'correctly', Zerg is in a commanding position.

It should be clear, tho, that I haven't responded correctly at all. Had I skipped the phoenixes, I would have had the gas to get blink and storm, and while I'd have significant mobility issues, I wouldn't be one spell away from a loss. Currently, fungal growth means large numbers of phoenixes are a bad response to mass mutalisks.

PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
Gudeldar
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1200 Posts
December 06 2010 12:10 GMT
#2036
On December 06 2010 21:03 Liquid`Ret wrote:
because scrap isnt a zerg favored map and stargate play is extremely hard to beat on scrap ...


Its funny that only Zerg players seem to think this.
Sideburn
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
December 06 2010 12:10 GMT
#2037
Actually, I always feel really awkward when pros make posts like the one Ret just did. I don't know. I guess it does make them more easy to relate to, which is good.
vectorix108
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4633 Posts
December 06 2010 12:10 GMT
#2038
hm good thinking going for roaches
Aka XephyR/Shaneyesss
Zaurus
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore676 Posts
December 06 2010 12:10 GMT
#2039
now u all can see how risky FE is
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
December 06 2010 12:11 GMT
#2040
1 base roach speedling by Fruit Dealer, possibly a backdoor bust, looks pretty all-in so far, he's only on 14 drones, HongUn defending his FE
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
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