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On November 08 2010 11:36 Xercen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 11:11 epicopter wrote:On November 08 2010 10:59 Xercen wrote:
I dunno what people are talking about but i've watched most of the gsl seasons 1 and 2 and jinro played really solid.
i didn't know who he was before but now i definately know he is one of the top progamers out there. BTW just because he isn't as well known as other people doesn't mean he is bad.
Look at fake boxer...nobody knew him until gsl season 2 ^_^.....now everybody knows jinro and am looking forward to seeing his replays...hopefully he will get invite to gosugamers KOTH as well as the other teamliquid peeps who did really good in the mgl.
plus tbh i thought mgl would be crap compared with gsl but there were a lot of really sick games. It's funny that you say that were impressed by jinro's play at the gsl considering he didn't qualify for either GSL tournament. Based on your logic since torch qualified for gsl season 1 then he must be better than everybody else who didn't Q including jinro. But come on really...is torch better than the others who didn't qualify? Not to insult torch...he is a good player but gsl qualification isn't the main deciding factor that decides who is and isn't a good sc2 player. Plus player skill isn't a constant factor...you can improve as a player by playing games etc and jinro has been playing vs ogs peeps and that's a pretty nice environment to foster an improvement in skills. I didn't know much about him before mgl but i know that he won against socke when he himself admitted that he never beat him before and i've watched a lot of gsl matches and i thought a lot of the games in mgl were of a very high standard. Plus a lot of people lose because they meet some1 who has a counter to their style. for example select vs idra and liquidnazgul vs idra. Idra is by most people's opinion a far better player than nazgul and select but idra was beaten on that day plus who is to say jinro didn't have a bad day or match up against a player who countered his style in the 2 gsl qualifiers?!
I wasn't commenting on Jinro as a player I thought you were implying that Jinro played well in the GSL seasons when he wasn't even in them. I think jinro is a great player. I guess you meant his play his comparative to the level of play in the GSL which is true he is a great player.
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i liked tt1 with the bw style mass gateway units in like 90% of his games, the ones where he went fast colosus dont rly go so well, dunno kno why he didn't stick to his guns
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I'm bummer TTOne didn't win. He's such an underrated player, it would have been fantastic to see him grab this title.
Nonetheless, Jinro is a beast at Starcraft 2 and he deserved just as much. I just like rooting for the underdog, and I am a Protoss player 
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On November 08 2010 11:41 epicopter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 11:36 Xercen wrote:On November 08 2010 11:11 epicopter wrote:On November 08 2010 10:59 Xercen wrote:
I dunno what people are talking about but i've watched most of the gsl seasons 1 and 2 and jinro played really solid.
i didn't know who he was before but now i definately know he is one of the top progamers out there. BTW just because he isn't as well known as other people doesn't mean he is bad.
Look at fake boxer...nobody knew him until gsl season 2 ^_^.....now everybody knows jinro and am looking forward to seeing his replays...hopefully he will get invite to gosugamers KOTH as well as the other teamliquid peeps who did really good in the mgl.
plus tbh i thought mgl would be crap compared with gsl but there were a lot of really sick games. It's funny that you say that were impressed by jinro's play at the gsl considering he didn't qualify for either GSL tournament. Based on your logic since torch qualified for gsl season 1 then he must be better than everybody else who didn't Q including jinro. But come on really...is torch better than the others who didn't qualify? Not to insult torch...he is a good player but gsl qualification isn't the main deciding factor that decides who is and isn't a good sc2 player. Plus player skill isn't a constant factor...you can improve as a player by playing games etc and jinro has been playing vs ogs peeps and that's a pretty nice environment to foster an improvement in skills. I didn't know much about him before mgl but i know that he won against socke when he himself admitted that he never beat him before and i've watched a lot of gsl matches and i thought a lot of the games in mgl were of a very high standard. Plus a lot of people lose because they meet some1 who has a counter to their style. for example select vs idra and liquidnazgul vs idra. Idra is by most people's opinion a far better player than nazgul and select but idra was beaten on that day plus who is to say jinro didn't have a bad day or match up against a player who countered his style in the 2 gsl qualifiers?! I wasn't commenting on Jinro as a player I thought you were implying that Jinro played well in the GSL seasons when he wasn't even in them. I think jinro is a great player. I guess you meant his play his comparative to the level of play in the GSL which is true he is a great player.
ah i hate forums...a lot of misunderstandings do happen ^_^
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jinro just had that korean calm about him anyone else notice?
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Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
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Why did FA cut his ridiculously long hair then :D
Or maybe im mixing him up with FakeSteve
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On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
You'd have to be new the the whole Starcraft scene to not understand where people come from on this. He was one of the VERY few foreigners able to so much as scratch the Korean scene. He's still head and shoulders above a vast majority of the foreigners, despite the fact that small skill gap between players this early in a game's life clouding that. Idra is far from the perfect player, but anyone who even remotely understands the game wouldn't give so much as a second glance to the hype around Idra, because a decent amount of it is deserved.
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On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
*snip* to keep the post not to long
The 2 fairly high finishes in the GSL and him winning the previous MLG is kind of a big deal.
The problem on one side is that altough he is a really (really) good player, he sometimes gets overhyped a bit by certain people wich causes certain expectations that are just unrealistic.
Yes Idra is definatly a favourite to win MLG, but if you just stepped back from all the hype you would realize that there was also a really big chance that Idra would be taken out earlier (like what happened).
Sometimes people think that idra is so far ahead of all the na/eu players that he is just gonna roflstomp trough the entire tournament, but the reality is that any of the top players can take him down, because the skillgap just isn't that big.
Besides that, Idra still has some holes in his play, and people abuse that to it's fullest if they go up against him, because everyone talks so much about him, and analyze so much of his games to find these weak points compared to some other players that you just know some general playstyle about.
So my point: Is Idra a really good player? Yes
Is he so good that he can win everything? definatly not, because there are tons of good players that can take games from him.
It's just the hype that causes this, because a lot of people have these sort of expectations that he is just gonna take first place in everything, but in the current state of this game that just isn't possible for anyone to really "dominate"
+the fact that he isn't perfect, he does have holes in his play, as everyone has.
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On November 08 2010 11:45 Sadist wrote:
Why did FA cut his ridiculously long hair then :D
Or maybe im mixing him up with FakeSteve
FA used to have really long hair too. :/
They <3 their metal ;o
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MLG Dallas Postshow Special with Live On Three (djWHEAT, Slasher, SirScoots) and State of The Game (if jp talks!) going live in about 5 minutes! We have IdrA, PainUser, Machine and more in the room with the entire Liquid crew including the champion! Tune in at http://www.djWHEAT.tv (omg maybe Day9???)
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On November 08 2010 11:50 Kibibit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
You'd have to be new the the whole Starcraft scene to not understand where people come from on this. He was one of the VERY few foreigners able to so much as scratch the Korean scene. He's still head and shoulders above a vast majority of the foreigners, despite the fact that small skill gap between players this early in a game's life clouding that. Idra is far from the perfect player, but anyone who even remotely understands the game wouldn't give so much as a second glance to the hype around Idra, because a decent amount of it is deserved.
Oh no, not really. I know who IdrA is/was in BW and in SC2. But all I'm seeing in SC2 is hype and not actual results. Even if his reputation is deserved he still hasn't been doing anything to actually justify it lately, quite the contrary. But instead of accepting the fact that at the moment he either isn't on top of his game or can't fully compete with the very best people make up all kind of excuses in order to defend his loses.
Hype should come from either results or spectacular play but I'm really not seeing any of it. For example, I love watching Boxer play and would want him to win every tournament, I'll cheer for him and believe in him but I'm also realistic enough to understand that at the moment he really isn't that great of a player and not who he once was. If that changes or not remains to be seen.
I'm not seeing that in IdrA's case.
@Icx
Thank you, you kinda summed up my thoughts as well.
Edit:
Better yet, I'm seeing massive hype that exceeds his actual results. He consistently qualifies for GSL and advances the first couple of rounds but compare that with: "the favorite to win it all."
Or MLG: "Lol he is gonna roflstomp everyone." Get's knocked out by Nazgul: "Fucking cheeser poor Idra so unlucky." Loses to SeleCT: "Fucking cheeser, poor IdrA so unlucky, he should have won the tournament."
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On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype.
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Down at the moment 
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On November 08 2010 12:01 BG1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype.
I think you have missed my point It's 4 AM here and I wouldn't be surprised if my posts were a bit foggy.
I'm not taking away his title as one of the top foreigners (or the best one for that matter). I'm addressing the specific amount of hype that doesn't go hand in hand with what he has shown and just isn't realistic. He would win over 50% but people are acting like he would win 95 out of a 100 and that's not true. That is becoming clear lately.
Same goes for GSL.
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On November 08 2010 12:05 nedamise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:01 BG1 wrote:On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype. I think you have missed my point It's 4 AM here and I wouldn't be surprised if my posts were a bit foggy. I'm not taking away his title as one of the top foreigners (or the best one for that matter). I'm addressing the specific amount of hype that doesn't go hand in hand with what he has shown and just isn't realistic. He would win over 50% but people are acting like he would win 95% of those matches and that's not true. That is becoming clear lately. Same goes for GSL.
The issue here is that you don't have a point. He is a foreigner who does extremely well against top koreans relative to the vast majority of other foreigners. It's so obvious as to why he would get hype. Also the fact that koreans have always completely dominated the starcraft scene, so the idea of somebody like IdrA having the potential to compete with them on equal terms is quite exciting to say the least. The main logical fallacy with your idea about this is that a lot of other foreigners receive this same level of hype, such as TLO or HuK (and they have less to show than IdrA does by far, especially if you consider the history of BW)
edit: Why do you even care? lol
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On November 08 2010 12:05 nedamise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:01 BG1 wrote:On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype. I think you have missed my point It's 4 AM here and I wouldn't be surprised if my posts were a bit foggy. I'm not taking away his title as one of the top foreigners (or the best one for that matter). I'm addressing the specific amount of hype that doesn't go hand in hand with what he has shown and just isn't realistic. He would win over 50% but people are acting like he would win 95 out of a 100 and that's not true. That is becoming clear lately. Same goes for GSL.
He got to the ro16 and if he didn't end up in ZvZ chances are he'd be playing in the finals right now. The hype surrounding him is well deserved.
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Because making it to the RO16 in the GSL is probably a greater accomplishment than winning any event outside of the GSL at this point.
He also has won an MLG event that was well attended and won it fairly easily for the most part.
He hasn't played in some of the other major events outside of Korea, if he did he'd have won more. Right now, he has like a 50% win rate in major tournaments outside of the GSL that he has actually attended. He also has a pretty ridiculous ladder winning percentage.
Also, the fact that people spend as much time as they do training SPECIFICALLY to beat idra is as much an indication of how good he is. There are a very small handful of names out there that entire teams train to beat, and he is one of them which makes it even harder and more impressive when he does win because his play is highly analyzed, and everyone is gunning for him.
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On November 08 2010 12:05 nedamise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:01 BG1 wrote:On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype. I think you have missed my point It's 4 AM here and I wouldn't be surprised if my posts were a bit foggy. I'm not taking away his title as one of the top foreigners (or the best one for that matter). I'm addressing the specific amount of hype that doesn't go hand in hand with what he has shown and just isn't realistic. He would win over 50% but people are acting like he would win 95 out of a 100 and that's not true. That is becoming clear lately. Same goes for GSL.
People who think Idra (or any other player for that matter) would win 95% of their games against other top players doesn't have a proper understanding of the game and should be ignored in the first place.
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EPT
