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On November 08 2010 12:10 Romance_us wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:05 nedamise wrote:On November 08 2010 12:01 BG1 wrote:On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype. I think you have missed my point  It's 4 AM here and I wouldn't be surprised if my posts were a bit foggy. I'm not taking away his title as one of the top foreigners (or the best one for that matter). I'm addressing the specific amount of hype that doesn't go hand in hand with what he has shown and just isn't realistic. He would win over 50% but people are acting like he would win 95% of those matches and that's not true. That is becoming clear lately. Same goes for GSL. The issue here is that you don't have a point. He is a foreigner who does extremely well against top koreans relative to other the vast majority of other foreigners. It's so obvious as to why he would get hype. Also the fact that koreans have always completely dominated the starcraft scene, so the idea of somebody like IdrA having the potential to compete with them on equal terms is quite exciting to say the least. The main logical fallacy with your idea about this is that a lot of other foreigners receive this same level of hype, such as TLO or HuK (and they have less to show than IdrA does by far, especially if you consider the history of BW)
The vast majority of other foreigners don't compete with Koreans nor enter the GSL. Teamliquid players do but other top Americans and other top Europeans don't enter the qualifiers. So that point is moot.
There is no logical fallacy in my "idea" because
a) I haven't presented an idea, I asked a question
and
b) TLO was never said to be one of the "favorites of the GSL" except by the perhaps most hardcore of fans. People wished it but were objective in regards to his current abilities and if they weren't then they fall into the same category of blind fanboyism as some of the IdrA fans.
Other foreigners are unproven against Koreans so hyping them or dehyping them is a very subjective matter that isn't based on any results.
BW is BW, SC2 is SC2. Achievements don't carry over. Respect does and so do beliefs regarding their potential but that's about it. Frankly, how good IdrA was or was not is completely irrelevant to his current SC2 situation.
And at the moment IdrA's form and achievements don't live up to his absurd hype.
Edit for all the people that posted before I posted my reply:
He got to the ro16 and if he didn't end up in ZvZ chances are he'd be playing in the finals right now. The hype surrounding him is well deserved.
See, you can't say: "He is one of the best unless he faces a mirror or get's cheesed." It's an oxymoron. He is either a great player overall or he is a a very good player with crippling gaps in his game (such as ZvZ). "If I don't run into something that is better then me I will win."
Eh?
Because making it to the RO16 in the GSL is probably a greater accomplishment than winning any event outside of the GSL at this point.
He also has won an MLG event that was well attended and won it fairly easily for the most part.
He hasn't played in some of the other major events outside of Korea, if he did he'd have won more. Right now, he has like a 50% win rate in major tournaments outside of the GSL that he has actually attended. He also has a pretty ridiculous ladder winning percentage.
Also, the fact that people spend as much time as they do training SPECIFICALLY to beat idra is as much an indication of how good he is. There are a very small handful of names out there that entire teams train to beat, and he is one of them which makes it even harder and more impressive when he does win because his play is highly analyzed, and everyone is gunning for him.
No one said it's wasn't a great accomplishment. It truly is but it also a far cry from being a favorite for winning the whole thing as some people keep believing, otherwise his placement is a disappointment. See the difference?
You can't say if he would win more or not because people expect him to comfortably cruise until at least the winners bracket finals at MLG Dallas. See how that went down?
See, when you have a clan and your teammate is playing against someone in the next round, regardless of the opponent your team will help you find ways to bring your opponent down. It's one of the points of having a team and don't doubt for a second that entire Prime isn't helping Boxer find a way to defeat ZergBong or that oGs didn't pool their knowledge to try and develop tactics for Nada and TLO.
Ladder...Iron was top of the Korean ladder and hyped to oblivion in the first GSL. He lost at round of 64.
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MLG Dallas: Team results
TeamLiquid
Liquid VS fnatics: 3-1
Liquid VS ROOT: 5-1
Liquid VS eG: 5-1
Liquid VS Pain.User: 0-4
[1] Jinro
[4] Tyler (lost to Pain.User (0-2) - WB R5; lost to Pain.User (2-4) - LB R11)
[5] TLO (lost to fnatics.TT1 (0-2) - WB R5; lost to Pain.User (0-2) - LB R10)
[7] Ret (lost to Liquid'Jinro (0-2) - WB R5; lost to Liquid'Tyler (1-2) - LB R9)
Huk (lost to Liquid'Ret (0-2) - WB R4; lost to Liquid'TLO (0-2) - LB R8)
Nazgul (lost to Pain.User (1-2) - WB R4; lost to eG.INcontroL (1-2) - LB R6)
HayprO (lost to ROOT.drewbie (0-2) - WB R1; lost to Agh.Antec (0-2) - LB R5)
EvilGeniuses:
eG vs Liquid: 1-5
eG vs fnatics: 1-3
eG vs ROOT: 3-4
[6] Machine (lost to fnaticsMSI.TT1 (0-2) - WB R6; lost to Liquid'Tyler (1-2) - LB 11)
iNkA (lost to fnaticsMSI.Fenix (0-2) - WB R2; lost to Dignitas.SeleCT (0-2) LB R7)
iNcontroL (lost to eG.Machine (0-2) WB R3; lost to ROOT.drewbie (1-2) LB R7)
LzGamer (lost to Liquid'Ret (0-2) WB R3; lost to ROOT.KiWiKaKi (0-2) LB R6)
Gracken (lost to Liquid'Nazgul (1-2) WB R4; lost to Dignitas.SeleCT (1-2) LB R6)
StrifeCro (lost to fnaticsMSI.Sen (0-2) - WB R2; lost to Socke (0-2) LB R4)
Axslav ( lost to Liquid'Tyler (1-2) WB R3; lost to eG.iNkA (0-2) LB R4)
Nyoken (lost to Liquid'Jinro (0-2) - WB R2; lost to ROOT.qxc (0-2) LB R4)
Colbi (lost to ROOT.qxc (0-2) - WB R1; lost to Jaeger (0-2) LB R2)
Fnatics
fnatics vs Liquid: 1-3
fnatics vs eG: 3-1
fnatics vs ROOT: 1-1
[2] TT1 (lost to Liquid'Jinro (1-2) - WB R7; lost to Liquid'Jinro (1-4) - WB R9)
Sen (lost to fnatics.TT1 (1-2) - WB R4; lost to Socke (1-2) LB R6)
Fenix (lost to ROOT.Slush (1-2) - WB R4; lost to eG.iNkA (3-4) LB R6)
Gretorp (lost to Whiplash.VT (1-2) - WB R1; lost to Liquid'Huk (0-2) LB R6)
Root Gaming
ROOT vs Liquid: 1-5
ROOT vs eG: 4-3
ROOT vs fnatics: 1-1
[8] Drewbie (lost to Liquid'Tyler (1-2) - WB R4; lost to Liquid'TLO (0-2) - LB R8)
Slush (lost to eG.Machine (0-2) - WB R5; lost to ROOT.drewbie (1-2) - LB R8)
KiWiKaKi (lost to Liquid'TLO (1-2) - WB R4; lost to Liquid'Ret (0-2) - LB R8)
Qxc (lost to fnatics.Sen (1-2) - WB R3; lost to Liquid'Huk (1-2) LB R7)
CatZ (lost to eG.Machine (0-2) - WB R2; lost to eG.Gracken (0-2) LB R5)
Bubba (lost to Newsh (1-2) - WB R1; lost to nRG.ViBE (1-2) LB R3)
references:
+ Show Spoiler +
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He is a great overall player, ZvZ is a complete crapshoot right now. You asked a question, everyone responded with reasonable answers ranging from "Umm he is just really good.." to "here are his accomplishments.. they are really good." What more do you want?
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On November 08 2010 12:21 Primadog wrote:
TeamLiquid
Liquid VS fnatics: 3-1
Liquid VS ROOT: 5-1
Liquid VS eG: 5-1
Liquid VS Pain.User: 0-4
I laughed xD
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On November 08 2010 12:05 nedamise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:01 BG1 wrote:On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype. I think you have missed my point It's 4 AM here and I wouldn't be surprised if my posts were a bit foggy. I'm not taking away his title as one of the top foreigners (or the best one for that matter). I'm addressing the specific amount of hype that doesn't go hand in hand with what he has shown and just isn't realistic. He would win over 50% but people are acting like he would win 95 out of a 100 and that's not true. That is becoming clear lately. Same goes for GSL.
idra is the most well known foreigner. that means everyone else brings their absolute best to beat him. he gets cheesed so much because he will dominate a macro game and all the other players are well aware of this. why do you think he gets cheesed so much?
he won mlg dc, he got second at the first iem. he has advanced past the ro 64 in gsl twice, i dont think any other foreigner could accomplish that at this point. what else do you want? fruitdealer got knocked out in the ro32 in gsl2, you cant win all the time no matter how good you are.
and specifically about nazgul's blink stalker build. expect changes. be it map spawns, or specific nerfs. it is extremely hard to stop when executed correctly. he lost iem to morrow and 5 rax reapers which was nerfed. players will do whatever they can to beat him. i havent seen the idra/select games so i dont know what went on there.
he doesnt do flashy shit, he just plays his game. and christ, he gets cheesed these days a majority of the time and often comes out on top. gsl2 ro64 comes to mind with double proxy rax at his ramp.
all that said... i wasnt impressed with his games at mlg dallas.
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On November 08 2010 12:22 FLuE wrote:
He is a great overall player, ZvZ is a complete crapshoot right now. You asked a question, everyone responded with reasonable answers ranging from "Umm he is just really good.." to "here are his accomplishments.. they are really good." What more do you want?
No need to be defensive, I don't want anything. We are just talking things out, I have a question/dilemma and I'm seeking the opinion of others, which others are providing. Nothing wrong with that?
idra is the most well known foreigner. that means everyone else brings their absolute best to beat him. he gets cheesed so much because he will dominate a macro game and all the other players are well aware of this. why do you think he gets cheesed so much?
he won mlg dc, he got second at the first iem. he has advanced past the ro 64 in gsl twice, i dont think any other foreigner could accomplish that at this point. what else do you want? fruitdealer got knocked out in the ro32 in gsl2, you cant win all the time no matter how good you are.
Eh, cheese is a part of the game and not something that spawned in a different dimension. If he can't defend against it properly (not counting IEM, the reapers were really absurdly imbalanced) he isn't so good as people claim him to be because he has a very weak aspect of his game that needs improving. But people aren't saying "maybe IdrA should fix this", people are insulting other players for going for the optimal strategy against him. That's kinda silly.
Glad you brought up FD actually. In the semi finals of the first GSL in one game he got cheesed with everything in the Terran arsenal (and this was prepatch). He was bunkered rushed, followed by reapers, followed by cloaked banshees and he lost an absurd amount of drones and economy. But he still won because he was simply the better player.
And he was constantly getting cheesed throughout the tournament as well. But when he lost to Foxer the people screaming "OMG IMBA CHEESE" were in a minority and most people recognized the real problem and commented on it:
He couldn't stop droning and his weakness got exploited. Did that lessen him as a player? Of course not. But realistically, it was a fuck up on his side.
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On November 08 2010 12:16 nedamise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:10 Romance_us wrote:On November 08 2010 12:05 nedamise wrote:On November 08 2010 12:01 BG1 wrote:On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype. I think you have missed my point It's 4 AM here and I wouldn't be surprised if my posts were a bit foggy. I'm not taking away his title as one of the top foreigners (or the best one for that matter). I'm addressing the specific amount of hype that doesn't go hand in hand with what he has shown and just isn't realistic. He would win over 50% but people are acting like he would win 95% of those matches and that's not true. That is becoming clear lately. Same goes for GSL. The issue here is that you don't have a point. He is a foreigner who does extremely well against top koreans relative to other the vast majority of other foreigners. It's so obvious as to why he would get hype. Also the fact that koreans have always completely dominated the starcraft scene, so the idea of somebody like IdrA having the potential to compete with them on equal terms is quite exciting to say the least. The main logical fallacy with your idea about this is that a lot of other foreigners receive this same level of hype, such as TLO or HuK (and they have less to show than IdrA does by far, especially if you consider the history of BW) The vast majority of other foreigners don't compete with Koreans nor enter the GSL. Teamliquid players do but other top Americans and other top Europeans don't enter the qualifiers. So that point is moot. There is no logical fallacy in my "idea" because a) I haven't presented an idea, I asked a question and b) TLO was never said to be one of the "favorites of the GSL" except by the perhaps most hardcore of fans. People wished it but were objective in regards to his current abilities and if they weren't then they fall into the same category of blind fanboyism as some of the IdrA fans. Other foreigners are unproven against Koreans so hyping them or dehyping them is a very subjective matter that isn't based on any results. BW is BW, SC2 is SC2. Achievements don't carry over. Respect does and so do beliefs regarding their potential but that's about it. Frankly, how good IdrA was or was not is completely irrelevant to his current SC2 situation. And at the moment IdrA's form and achievements don't live up to his absurd hype. Edit for all the people that posted before I posted my reply: Show nested quote +He got to the ro16 and if he didn't end up in ZvZ chances are he'd be playing in the finals right now. The hype surrounding him is well deserved. See, you can't say: "He is one of the best unless he faces a mirror or get's cheesed." It's an oxymoron. He is either a great player overall or he is a a very good player with crippling gaps in his game (such as ZvZ). "If I don't run into something that is better then me I will win." Eh?
So obviously SC2 is a new game, as you commented, and SC2 skill should be judged on either miraculous play or results. The two largest tournaments have obviously been the GSL (1 and 2) and MLG (DC, Raleigh, Dallas). IdrA, as a foreigner, has qualified for GSL 1 and 2, and won an MLG event.
How are those not better results than most/all other foreigners? Seriously, tell me a foreigner who's won more SC2 events.
Edit: Yes I'm familiar with IEM, King of Beta, and all those contests, but I think it's agreed that the biggest collections of star players are both MLG and GSL.
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On November 08 2010 12:16 nedamise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:10 Romance_us wrote:On November 08 2010 12:05 nedamise wrote:On November 08 2010 12:01 BG1 wrote:On November 08 2010 11:44 nedamise wrote:
Kinda funny. Every time IdrA is about to play I read massive hype all over the place. And almost every time I watch him play he loses one way or another. And every time it's followed by a pretty large amount of posters defending him or justifying his loss on anything but his poor play.
Now...I'm not trying to flame or troll, I'm genuinely confused: what has IdrA done so far other then one MLG and that king of the beta thing that makes people believe he is so good?
Great player without a doubt, very skilled but the hype I see around him doesn't really compute to the actual results and even play sometimes. I could understand the "he gets cheesed!" argument but...so do other players...especially top Zergs. I can understand the "it's hard competing with Koreans but he is the best foreign player for sure" and it's true but then why is he losing to foreigners as well? For "he gets cheesed" answer see above.
Also, cheese is part of the game. If you can't counter it...you don't count as one of the greatest players. Being good at only one aspect of the game doesn't make someone one of the best.
It's simple, if Idra played 100 games vs any foreigner he'd win over 50% of the games. Sure he'll lose plenty of games too but he's always the favorite going into any match (against a foreigner). Not many would argue that, not even his opponents. Therefore Idra = best foreigner = hype. I think you have missed my point It's 4 AM here and I wouldn't be surprised if my posts were a bit foggy. I'm not taking away his title as one of the top foreigners (or the best one for that matter). I'm addressing the specific amount of hype that doesn't go hand in hand with what he has shown and just isn't realistic. He would win over 50% but people are acting like he would win 95% of those matches and that's not true. That is becoming clear lately. Same goes for GSL. The issue here is that you don't have a point. He is a foreigner who does extremely well against top koreans relative to other the vast majority of other foreigners. It's so obvious as to why he would get hype. Also the fact that koreans have always completely dominated the starcraft scene, so the idea of somebody like IdrA having the potential to compete with them on equal terms is quite exciting to say the least. The main logical fallacy with your idea about this is that a lot of other foreigners receive this same level of hype, such as TLO or HuK (and they have less to show than IdrA does by far, especially if you consider the history of BW) The vast majority of other foreigners don't compete with Koreans nor enter the GSL. Teamliquid players do but other top Americans and other top Europeans don't enter the qualifiers. So that point is moot. There is no logical fallacy in my "idea" because a) I haven't presented an idea, I asked a question and b) TLO was never said to be one of the "favorites of the GSL" except by the perhaps most hardcore of fans. People wished it but were objective in regards to his current abilities and if they weren't then they fall into the same category of blind fanboyism as some of the IdrA fans. Other foreigners are unproven against Koreans so hyping them or dehyping them is a very subjective matter that isn't based on any results. BW is BW, SC2 is SC2. Achievements don't carry over. Respect does and so do beliefs regarding their potential but that's about it. Frankly, how good IdrA was or was not is completely irrelevant to his current SC2 situation. And at the moment IdrA's form and achievements don't live up to his absurd hype. Edit for all the people that posted before I posted my reply: Show nested quote +He got to the ro16 and if he didn't end up in ZvZ chances are he'd be playing in the finals right now. The hype surrounding him is well deserved. See, you can't say: "He is one of the best unless he faces a mirror or get's cheesed." It's an oxymoron. He is either a great player overall or he is a a very good player with crippling gaps in his game (such as ZvZ). "If I don't run into something that is better then me I will win." Eh? Show nested quote +Because making it to the RO16 in the GSL is probably a greater accomplishment than winning any event outside of the GSL at this point.
He also has won an MLG event that was well attended and won it fairly easily for the most part.
He hasn't played in some of the other major events outside of Korea, if he did he'd have won more. Right now, he has like a 50% win rate in major tournaments outside of the GSL that he has actually attended. He also has a pretty ridiculous ladder winning percentage.
Also, the fact that people spend as much time as they do training SPECIFICALLY to beat idra is as much an indication of how good he is. There are a very small handful of names out there that entire teams train to beat, and he is one of them which makes it even harder and more impressive when he does win because his play is highly analyzed, and everyone is gunning for him.
No one said it's wasn't a great accomplishment. It truly is but it also a far cry from being a favorite for winning the whole thing as some people keep believing, otherwise his placement is a disappointment. See the difference? You can't say if he would win more or not because people expect him to comfortably cruise until at least the winners bracket finals at MLG Dallas. See how that went down? See, when you have a clan and your teammate is playing against someone in the next round, regardless of the opponent your team will help you find ways to bring your opponent down. It's one of the points of having a team and don't doubt for a second that entire Prime isn't helping Boxer find a way to defeat ZergBong or that oGs didn't pool their knowledge to try and develop tactics for Nada and TLO. Ladder...Iron was top of the Korean ladder and hyped to oblivion in the first GSL. He lost at round of 64.
LOL oh so nobody has answered your question yet? Jesus you are annoying. Give it up kiddo.
It's like you are never going to stop unless every single member of teamliquid quotes your post and says, "I totally agree that idra does not deserve the hype he gets". I will reiterate. give it up.
last edit: I didn't even notice this because I generally skim your garbage, but you seriously tried to semantically point out that you did NOT express an idea? You ONLY asked a question? Are you retarded? You asked a question supported by ideas.. which is what I was referring to.. god
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BW is BW, SC2 is SC2. Achievements don't carry over. Respect does and so do beliefs regarding their potential but that's about it. Frankly, how good IdrA was or was not is completely irrelevant to his current SC2 situation.
And at the moment IdrA's form and achievements don't live up to his absurd hype.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Idra
enjoy. there are a list of achievements. he made it farther or as far as any foreigner in both GSL's. Sure, "he was cheesed" is a stupid excuse. but you can't say his hype is undeserved. He is a foreigner that' probably the best at the game compared to other foreigners.
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No need to be defensive, I don't want anything. We are just talking things out, I have a question/dilemma and I'm seeking the opinion of others, which others are providing. Nothing wrong with that?
Because at this point you are either an idiot, or trolling, or both. And I wasn't defensive, everyone answered your question, then you kept bringing up things over and over. And then editing your posts over and over. The arguments you are using aren't making any sense, despite the fact you are saying things like, "See what I mean here?"
It is 4AM where you are, go to bed, think on it, and come back tomorrow and let us know.
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On November 08 2010 12:24 PartyBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:21 Primadog wrote:
TeamLiquid
Liquid VS fnatics: 3-1
Liquid VS ROOT: 5-1
Liquid VS eG: 5-1
Liquid VS Pain.User: 0-4
I laughed xD
lol likewise
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yeah we're being trolled dudes. move along.
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His hype is deserved. I agree. Many foreigners have attempted gsl and he has done the best. But take a look at the poll in the right. At first the poll was strongly voted towards idra. He turned out to be the person to lose first of the three. A part of the reason there is over hype is that teamliquid is an English speaking website and idra is the best english speaking foreigner when it comes to what he has done in both sc and sc2. Also it's idras confidence which seems to hype him. He was so sure to win in Texas and in his interviews in the gsl he expected to go much further than he actually did so idra overhyped himself as well. And his fanbase follows suit.
His performance could be better and the times he loses aren't just cheeses despite what his fans may cry. Everyone has flaws in their gameplay
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On November 08 2010 12:31 Vaporized wrote:
yeah we're being trolled dudes. move along.
agree. I feel foolish for even responding now after going back and reading more carefully through every post. He's said the same thing over and over to every single response
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On November 08 2010 12:30 FLuE wrote:Show nested quote +No need to be defensive, I don't want anything. We are just talking things out, I have a question/dilemma and I'm seeking the opinion of others, which others are providing. Nothing wrong with that? Because at this point you are either an idiot, or trolling, or both. And I wasn't defensive, everyone answered your question, then you kept bringing up things over and over. And then editing your posts over and over. The arguments you are using aren't making any sense, despite the fact you are saying things like, "See what I mean here?" It is 4AM where you are, go to bed, think on it, and come back tomorrow and let us know.
Heh, you are not being defensive but you insult me and attack me for having an opinion that's different from yours. Wow, talk about irony. Ad hominem doesn't really change my argument or makes it worse, just makes you seem like you ran out of things to say.
I didn't insult you, I actually thought I was having a normal discussion with someone mature/intelligent enough. My bad
@others
Funny, I guess in this topic not thinking like others do counts as a trolling. I answered everyone in detail and spoke my mind like everyone else on these boards do.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
HELL YEAH FROZENARBITER! <3
I'm so proud. Fantastic performance by Liquid, keep it going
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On November 08 2010 12:37 nedamise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:30 FLuE wrote:No need to be defensive, I don't want anything. We are just talking things out, I have a question/dilemma and I'm seeking the opinion of others, which others are providing. Nothing wrong with that? Because at this point you are either an idiot, or trolling, or both. And I wasn't defensive, everyone answered your question, then you kept bringing up things over and over. And then editing your posts over and over. The arguments you are using aren't making any sense, despite the fact you are saying things like, "See what I mean here?" It is 4AM where you are, go to bed, think on it, and come back tomorrow and let us know. Heh, you are not being defensive but you insult me and attack me for having an opinion that's different from yours. Wow, talk about irony. Ad hominem doesn't really change my argument or makes it worse, just makes you seem like you ran out of things to say. I didn't insult you, I actually thought I was having a normal discussion with someone mature/intelligent enough. My bad @others Funny, I guess in this topic not thinking like others do counts as a trolling. I answered everyone in detail and spoke my mind like everyone else on these boards do.
Seriously. Find me a foreigner with more success in SC2 tournaments.
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Idra's results and hype don't match up, it's hardly trolling to state that. Anyone who reads this forum but doesn't follow tournament results would be under the impression he is the SC2 equivalent of Flash, which clearly isn't the case.
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On November 08 2010 12:44 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 12:37 nedamise wrote:On November 08 2010 12:30 FLuE wrote:No need to be defensive, I don't want anything. We are just talking things out, I have a question/dilemma and I'm seeking the opinion of others, which others are providing. Nothing wrong with that? Because at this point you are either an idiot, or trolling, or both. And I wasn't defensive, everyone answered your question, then you kept bringing up things over and over. And then editing your posts over and over. The arguments you are using aren't making any sense, despite the fact you are saying things like, "See what I mean here?" It is 4AM where you are, go to bed, think on it, and come back tomorrow and let us know. Heh, you are not being defensive but you insult me and attack me for having an opinion that's different from yours. Wow, talk about irony. Ad hominem doesn't really change my argument or makes it worse, just makes you seem like you ran out of things to say. I didn't insult you, I actually thought I was having a normal discussion with someone mature/intelligent enough. My bad @others Funny, I guess in this topic not thinking like others do counts as a trolling. I answered everyone in detail and spoke my mind like everyone else on these boards do. Seriously. Find me a foreigner with more success in SC2 tournaments.
Apparently I haven't "repeat" myself enough in my posts. For the last time, and I wrote it in several other posts in this topic:
I didn't dispute IdrA is currently probably the best foreigner. I never did that. In fact, I consistently called him a great player. For the nth time:
I don't believe IdrA deserves the amount of hype that equals: one of the GSL favorites and "he will have an easy time at every foreign tournament" which some people keep repeating every time he is about to play.
And all people answer me are either insults or listing his BW accomplishments or listing the amount of foreign tournaments his won while I keep repeating that I know he is probably the best foreign player and none of that has any impact on my original point.
Idra's results and hype don't match up, it's hardly trolling to state that. Anyone who reads this forum but doesn't follow tournament results would be under the impression he is the SC2 equivalent of Flash, which clearly isn't the case.
Thank you! Finally for the love of god someone gets it.
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EPT
