On October 19 2010 16:37 Bluest wrote: That's the point though. TLO lost because he reacted poorly which is sad to lose to such an awful play from Sangho. If TLO even has his scvs where they should be he wins easily. Sangho blind 4 gated like a bad american diamond player albeit with better control. If Sangho had played like some monster I'd feel differently but TLO just beat himself which is very sad to see =(
If you go for cloak banshee you have to assume a 4 gate, especially from Protoss and especially if you played tech-builds the games before. TLO is a good enough player to know that he wins the game with cloak banshees if he can hold off the rush and that he'll lose if he cannot defend a 4 gate.
It was completely his fault for misreading / not being able to defend.
I also think FruitDealer vs SangHo is a lot better match than TLO vs FruitDealer, since I think TLO/SangHo are both worse than FruitDealer, but PvZ is favored towards Protoss more than ZvT is (when it actually still is what I doubt) favored towards Terran.
That's exactly my point. That Sangho played poorly and won anyway because TLO screwed up which is why I'm so dissapointed. 9 out of 10 times in that situation TLO gets his cloak banshees and wins I bet. He knew that pylon was there reacted very poorly. People are making Sangho out to be a beast when he got completely outplayed in game 2 and in ro1 again TLO did something imo that was an awful BO/Army comp.
I wasn't impressed with Sangho at all.
I'm Terran myself and I can tell, even a frontal attack with 2 sentries (4 gate) SMAAAAAASHES a cloak banshee rush. Against a good player you usually don't get a cloak banshee out. The sentries prevent repairing the bunker with forcefields. So no, it was a gamble by TLO or plain bad scouting.
TLO is good enough to be aware that his build wasn't especially good against quiet some Protoss strategies.
Cloak Banshee vs 4 Gate = usually Protoss can win before you have cloak with 4 gate 3 Gate Robo = defends cloak banshee well
so.. SangHo didn't play like a beast, because he had no real chance to show what he's able to play like. 2nd game was saved-scan against DT BO loss as well as the 3rd game was a BO loss.
1st game SangHo did macro better and chose the better fighting position.
On October 19 2010 16:37 Bluest wrote: That's the point though. TLO lost because he reacted poorly which is sad to lose to such an awful play from Sangho. If TLO even has his scvs where they should be he wins easily. Sangho blind 4 gated like a bad american diamond player albeit with better control. If Sangho had played like some monster I'd feel differently but TLO just beat himself which is very sad to see =(
If you go for cloak banshee you have to assume a 4 gate, especially from Protoss and especially if you played tech-builds the games before. TLO is a good enough player to know that he wins the game with cloak banshees if he can hold off the rush and that he'll lose if he cannot defend a 4 gate.
It was completely his fault for misreading / not being able to defend.
I also think FruitDealer vs SangHo is a lot better match than TLO vs FruitDealer, since I think TLO/SangHo are both worse than FruitDealer, but PvZ is favored towards Protoss more than ZvT is (when it actually still is what I doubt) favored towards Terran.
well Jinro said TLO's TvZ is considered top notch even to Korean standards, he should have at least put up a good fight vs Cool.
Maybe TLO will one day be a Zerg sniper on oGs-TL SC2 proleague?
On October 19 2010 16:47 susySquark wrote: fun fact - you can build a scouting depot behind the rocks at jungle basin. But if you wall that area off with multiple depots, the pylon power cant reach over your buildings so he cant warp over the rocks at all.
Wow, good info o_o
just make 3-4 unfinished depots and you can 100% block a back rock 4gate?
On October 19 2010 16:33 beetlelisk wrote: He was so close yet so far. 51 people have perfect liquibet score now D: fu traitors ;( I could watch whole TLO's interview fine
piss off. that's betting, you use your head.
with real chips down any gambler would bet sangho, unless you're out to lose
where's all the bans for these extreme fuks who want to kill or fuck 'em in the ass? how's that alright?
I think you should be taking smileys into account before taking something seriously. TLO could win those games convincingly but his execution wasn't good enough.
On October 19 2010 16:47 susySquark wrote: fun fact - you can build a scouting depot behind the rocks at jungle basin. But if you wall that area off with multiple depots, the pylon power cant reach over your buildings so he cant warp over the rocks at all.
Wow, good info o_o
just make 3-4 unfinished depots and you can 100% block a back rock 4gate?
On October 19 2010 16:32 Fa1nT wrote: This is why I dislike the GSL match system...
There needs to be a losers bracket
Never liked a tournament with losers' bracket. it is more like stuff just for entertainment, but not for competition.
i would actually make a case for the opposite, losers bracket lets you find the best players in the tournament.. if you lose to a player better than you, you still have a chance to finish where you belong, cause you can test your skills vs other losers.
Single elimination is more set up for entertainment, every match on the line counts, it's very on the edge, you care more.. unlike double elim where winner's bracket is more of a formality, the real placement edge of your seat matches take place in losers
either way, both systems have their positives and negatives
Its actually interesting and I never stopped to think about it until juxtaposing mlg/iem/gsl. I kind of like the big name can make their way back(eliminates flukes, creates drama), but on the other hand seeing the one and onl ymatchup is so special. For example in MLG Raleigh I think there were a bunch of rematches.
I am slightly favored towards single elim atm, but I do lament things like ssks and july not qualifying, or tlo exiting so early etc.
On October 19 2010 16:46 iCanada wrote: I really can't wait till the tournament is actually seeded... All the good players will make it automatically, then our boys like Haypro, Jinro, and Huk can not get knoecked out of the tournament by guys like Clide.
You realize haypro jinro and huk have done absolutely nothing so far to even get a seed right? Even with a reasonable ro32 showing in s3 they most likely would only see top koreans if they qualified.
On October 19 2010 16:31 Treva wrote: lol I like how sending 4 scvs to repair thors is considered all in.
TLO hadn't expanded and Sangho had snuck an expansion..
If sangho had held that off and done more damage with dts, tlo would lose no doubt about it..
2 base against 1 base?
it was a good attack though, i don't really think it's cheese like some people are saying, but i don't think 4 gate is cheese either..
I really wish artosis would have talked with tlo about game 1, I feel TLO could have played that much differently.
For me, 2nd game is just a mindless all-in from TLO side. He did not see the expansion from sangho. If SangHo did not go for DTs, I think he will be fine even with the hidden expansion. If he did not go for the hidden expansion, he will definitely hold on the attack with those 4 gates, even without DTs.
Going for both DT and expansion is why Sangho lost, if he did not go for either one, just built army, he can hold on that attack.
Feel like pheonix is kind of a dark horse, but he impressed me most today, personally. Unfortunately that bracket is crazy rough so it will be difficult for him to advance too far, imo.
FruitDealer vs Pheonix would be an 'interesting' ZvZ to watch, as much as I typically don't enjoy that matchup.
On October 19 2010 16:47 susySquark wrote: fun fact - you can build a scouting depot behind the rocks at jungle basin. But if you wall that area off with multiple depots, the pylon power cant reach over your buildings so he cant warp over the rocks at all.
Wow, good info o_o
just make 3-4 unfinished depots and you can 100% block a back rock 4gate?
Yeah or 2 more barracks with 4 more marines. 400 minerals to block that seems excessive.
you do what you have to to win....and sangho did what he needed to do regardless of how lame it was....tlo could have played a safer strat but that miss click was the shot to the foot
On October 19 2010 16:33 beetlelisk wrote: He was so close yet so far. 51 people have perfect liquibet score now D: fu traitors ;( I could watch whole TLO's interview fine
piss off. that's betting, you use your head.
with real chips down any gambler would bet sangho, unless you're out to lose
where's all the bans for these extreme fuks who want to kill or fuck 'em in the ass? how's that alright?
I think you should be taking smileys into account before taking something seriously. TLO could win those games convincingly but his execution wasn't good enough.
yeah, it's easy to mistake someone when he says he wants to "fuck 'em in the ass, kill him, fuck you fuck you fuck you..." people do it all the time!
On October 19 2010 16:34 _vladimir_ wrote: It is really nice from him that he manages to do short interview after loss, i mean i dont know will he go home and emo rage afterwards, but being able to talk calm with Artosis after loss he probably didnt expect (well who expect loses) really shows he is well mannered and nice person.Team Liquid shoud be proud on him.
On October 19 2010 16:40 Qikz wrote: I wish they'd stop putting the Foreigner Games on in the first segmant, it's like 5AM/6AM start for the UK and Europe for the games and it means I have to get up at 6 to possibly catch Idra play in two days. :|
I actually like this segment change since many of us are now able to watch it b4 school or work. With the old format I wouldn't be able to watch anything at all.
On October 19 2010 16:37 Bluest wrote: That's the point though. TLO lost because he reacted poorly which is sad to lose to such an awful play from Sangho. If TLO even has his scvs where they should be he wins easily. Sangho blind 4 gated like a bad american diamond player albeit with better control. If Sangho had played like some monster I'd feel differently but TLO just beat himself which is very sad to see =(
If you go for cloak banshee you have to assume a 4 gate, especially from Protoss and especially if you played tech-builds the games before. TLO is a good enough player to know that he wins the game with cloak banshees if he can hold off the rush and that he'll lose if he cannot defend a 4 gate.
It was completely his fault for misreading / not being able to defend.
I also think FruitDealer vs SangHo is a lot better match than TLO vs FruitDealer, since I think TLO/SangHo are both worse than FruitDealer, but PvZ is favored towards Protoss more than ZvT is (when it actually still is what I doubt) favored towards Terran.
That's exactly my point. That Sangho played poorly and won anyway because TLO screwed up which is why I'm so dissapointed. 9 out of 10 times in that situation TLO gets his cloak banshees and wins I bet. He knew that pylon was there reacted very poorly. People are making Sangho out to be a beast when he got completely outplayed in game 2 and in ro1 again TLO did something imo that was an awful BO/Army comp.
I wasn't impressed with Sangho at all.
I'm Terran myself and I can tell, even a frontal attack with 2 sentries (4 gate) SMAAAAAASHES a cloak banshee rush. Against a good player you usually don't get a cloak banshee out. The sentries prevent repairing the bunker with forcefields. So no, it was a gamble by TLO or plain bad scouting.
TLO is good enough to be aware that his build wasn't especially good against quiet some Protoss strategies.
Cloak Banshee vs 4 Gate = usually Protoss can win before you have cloak with 4 gate 3 Gate Robo = defends cloak banshee well
so.. SangHo didn't play like a beast, because he had no real chance to show what he's able to play like. 2nd game was saved-scan against DT BO loss as well as the 3rd game was a BO loss.
1st game SangHo did macro better and chose the better fighting position.
Well that too, except TLO's response was those bunkers. He finishes those ie drops them 20 seconds earlier and he's in much better shape even with the build he did. But even if his BO was crap in game 3 my reasoning is the same in being dissapointed for not scouting and responding better and that TLO let Sangho win with bad decision making.
You don't see Tester 4 gate all-in blindly like that because he goes into games with the mindset he knows he's better than the other player. Not blind 4 gating and hoping the other guy's BO sucks, he scouts it late, and responds poorly. Sangho didn't know TLO was going banshee.
On October 19 2010 16:40 Qikz wrote: I wish they'd stop putting the Foreigner Games on in the first segmant, it's like 5AM/6AM start for the UK and Europe for the games and it means I have to get up at 6 to possibly catch Idra play in two days. :|
I actually like this segment change since many of us are now able to watch it b4 school or work. With the old format I wouldn't be able to watch anything at all.
^
This is a much better time for the pacific coast of the US as well, games start at 9 PM instead of 2-3 AM.
You have to be fairly lazy to complain about something being on at 6 AM, many if not most people wake up every day at 6 AM.
On October 19 2010 16:35 pyro19 wrote: I really wish he would play standard 2 rax reactor Marine marauder play against Protoss and Macro afterwards.
please leave all the innovative stuff for zerg and Terran in the next GSL.
It is so obvious that he loved mech build too much. It is decent for TvP in BW, but bio in SC2 is much stronger than mech build, why always go for mech build?
On October 19 2010 16:33 beetlelisk wrote: He was so close yet so far. 51 people have perfect liquibet score now D: fu traitors ;( I could watch whole TLO's interview fine
piss off. that's betting, you use your head.
with real chips down any gambler would bet sangho, unless you're out to lose
where's all the bans for these extreme fuks who want to kill or fuck 'em in the ass? how's that alright?
I think you should be taking smileys into account before taking something seriously. TLO could win those games convincingly but his execution wasn't good enough.
yeah, it's easy to mistake someone when he says he wants to "fuck 'em in the ass, kill him, fuck you fuck you fuck you..." people do it all the time!
what are you crazy?!
I think you mean a post I haven't seen sorry. PM it to a mod O_o?
Also after reading Naruto's post... yea P had a lot of units, I guess that was just a gamble loss in game 3.
On October 19 2010 16:33 beetlelisk wrote: He was so close yet so far. 51 people have perfect liquibet score now D: fu traitors ;( I could watch whole TLO's interview fine
piss off. that's betting, you use your head.
with real chips down any gambler would bet sangho, unless you're out to lose
where's all the bans for these extreme fuks who want to kill or fuck 'em in the ass? how's that alright?
I think you should be taking smileys into account before taking something seriously. TLO could win those games convincingly but his execution wasn't good enough.
yeah, it's easy to mistake someone when he says he wants to "fuck 'em in the ass, kill him, fuck you fuck you fuck you..." people do it all the time!
what are you crazy?!
Sangho was really good at broodwar, and a pretty cool guy. I wanted him to win both in my heart and in my head .
EPT
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