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On October 07 2010 08:05 Licmyobelisk wrote:
Well, looks like FS put words in my mouth on this one... If the prize is like $ 80,000 for 1st prize then $ 70,000 for 2nd place then I wouldn't give a fuck about showing my best since I know for a fact that my opponent will be $ 10k richer than me.
I had this mentality once in a tournament that I said to myself hell yeah doesn't matter if I'm on third place I still go dough.
people with that mentality rarely get in tournament finals tho
unless they are already well accomplished and hence unmotivated.
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On October 07 2010 02:11 Black Gun wrote:
i agree with the OP, but i can also see the psychological effect of having the price for first place breaking the 100 millions...
Yup, that was a very pretty check.
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Also you guys have to remember, just cause they are Korean doesn't mean they are professionals... Anyone can play GSL. If some half decent somebody beats a wana be somebody but isn't anybody, they should not receive any pay. The first few rounds are like a qualifier. Once the quarter-finals commence, that's when you get the real action between the 'pros' and 'up-and-coming pros'. Those are the ppl who need to support themselves. If they lose in the top 32 or 64, they either haven't practiced in a long ass time or they had some sort of huge problem.
IMO
ro64, ro32, ro16 are used to weed out the noobs, and receive some small benefits.
quarter finals, semi finals, and finals are the REAL tournament with the REAL pro players, and thus have the majority of the prize pool.
Also, the reason 1st is so much higher than 7/8 is because the Quarter Finals are basically like the first round of the 'real' tournament (like I said). To pay huge amounts to someone who made it to the first round doesn't make sense. They are congratulated with enough money to pay rent, put food on the table, and pay for national travel expenses. Semi Finalists get more than double that cause they actually defeated a 'pro' player during the 'real' tournament. With that win, they are able to live for several months without work, giving them sufficient time to train extensively. The Runner-Up is basically labeled #2 player of Korea, and top 5 in the world. With such a prestigious title, they earn enough money to pay for nearly an entire years worth of pay. The winner of the whole thing gets spoiled just like the winner of any other professional sport, and they are allowed to not only support themselves for over a year, but also buy whatever they want, travel wherever they want, and do whatever they want. Thus are the spoils of being the #1 player in the world.
Hope this helps.. They make the tourny open to anyone and everyone, but they don't give away money to anyone and everyone. Only to the top players, since at this stage of the game, they are the only 'professional' caliber players.
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should be all or nothing, one winner in the whole damn tournament :D
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United States33399 Posts
Considering the nascent SC II pro-scene in Korea right now, they do need a big first place prize to draw attention and make it look like they're much bigger than some washed up Brood War tournament.
However, when you also consider there isn't much sponsorship coming in for SC II yet, at least not to the level of Brood War, tournaments earnings can still be a significant portion of players' income. While the allure of a huge 1st place payday will initially bring the players to the game, you have to spread the wealth a little to keep them interested and motivated over a longer period of time. On that, I think the prize money distribution for GSL is a little bit off, and could use some slight adjusting.
I don't know what the details should be, but something along the lines of a 2:1 prize split for 1st and 2nd like the OSL sounds like a good place to start.
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imo there are a couple factors.
First off the higher the stakes, the more driven you are to reach that goal. People always think of the best possible prize, for example people play the lotto to win the final prize, not a free-play. (k maybe that wasn't the best example lol). This will attract players
Secondly, all those 0's in the 100 000 000 KRW (or whatever it is, can't remember exactly) has a larger mental effect than anything without the 0's. For example, the reason why people mark prices as 4.99 instead of 5.00 is because 5.00 seems that much bigger.
Regarding pro MTG:
+ Show Spoiler +
This is off topic, but wow pro MTG sounds really interesting
I'm really interested to see what kind of decks these pros have, how the games play out, and how long the average game is. Is there a site where I can get something similar to 'replays'?
lol I've been playing a bit of Shandalar lately :p
(edit for my opinion on the matter)
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The tournament being awfully top-heavy was my first thought when I saw money-distribution aswell. I just shrugged it off as a marketing trick for the first seasons and assumed they would redistribute it for later tournaments.
But it kinda depends on how you look at it, is it a 64-player tournament or is it much larger tournament that starts to air from the R64 and forward?
Also kinda unique case with GSL being the only SC2-tournament atm, kinda removing the need to attract the best SC2-players. What they need to do is attract top players to SC2, if you are a SC2 top player, you will be playing the GSL.
This mean that some of the most basic prize pool distribution guidelines might not apply, such as the bigger the prize pool the smaller the %-cut to the winner. That is one reason i think comparing it to poker tournaments aint a good idea.
There are so many different ways to look at this, some sports (Triathlon, mountanbiking, things like that i belive) seem to have a really different setup with the difference betwen 1st and 2nd place not being that big, and the difference between 1st and 8th being about 1 to 10.
The one thing is pretty clear is that the torunament is very top-heavy compared to pretty much any other tournament i can think of. If it is good or bad i dont really know, but having 50% of the total prize pool in a 64-player tournament go to the winner is pretty huge, and if you actually count it as tournament with thousands of participants (including the prelim that is) it is an absolutely mindblowingly huge slice to the winner.
Cant really see it as anything but a marketing trick to be honest, i think that once the scene is settled they will change the distribution.
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Justifying the prize structure by saying they need this for attention is similar to forcing all casters into games in your open tournaments. In the sense that it will be better for your tournament but worse for the players. TL sacrifices viewer numbers and thus sponsor potential on a weekly basis to offer TL Open with the most optimal player conditions, but we had a lot of discussion about this internally so it's definitely something every tournament host needs to decide for themselves and give it a lot of thought.
These are interesting choices to make. I don't blame GSL because if they think this is the only way then in the long run it's more important that they continue to exist over offering better player conditions right now. If they die out after a year then nobody wins.
I'm not too happy to see a prizepool divided like this.
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GSL is a preliminary tournament, not the main tournament. It's similar to "courage" in BW. It is supposed to be harsh to losers, so that it stimulates new people to take part, and replace them. Yes, I can see why this format may shy away many consistently good players, as they would prefer something more reliable and rewarding for their hard work. At the same time, it will likely get *everyone* to participate once, trying their luck, so that the organizers can later use the Ro64/32 records to fill in the upcoming more serious leagues.
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Hype is a terrible reason why they should use an unnaturally top-heavy prize distribution. I hope they never do this again.
Instead of saying, "First place wins $85,000,"
they should be saying, "The GSL is giving out over $500,000 USD in prizes."
Not only does that negate the need for a top-heavy payout, but $85,000 sounds paltry compared to half a million. In terms of advertisement, the bigger number is always better.
Edit - Also, it's been observed in many other competitive gaming communities that when the lower players think they have a better shot at the money, there will be higher overall turnout (or participation). If only the Top 3 get paid, very few people will think they have a chance, which will in turn make them less likely to compete, which in turn makes the competitive scene less popular.
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United States33399 Posts
In addition there is something of a psychological effect about the round 100,000,000 won.
In East Asian countries influenced by Chinese culture (Korea and Japan that I know of), there are specific terms of numbers used every 10^4, not 10^3 in English. So that 100,000,000 looks more like a round 1,0000,0000 mentally I should say?
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Any comparison of this prize pool to poker is a terrible idea for a very simple reason:
The prize pool in poker is provided by the players.
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On October 08 2010 00:45 Ardek wrote:
Also, it's been observed in many other competitive gaming communities that when the lower players think they have a better shot at the money, there will be higher overall turnout (or participation).
Turnout is not an issue for the GSL. Maximizing viewers and attracting top-level talent is. Giving more money to players below Ro8 is not going to entice Flash and Jaedong to play SC2.
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first is more than three times second is a bit high, but in korean currency thats a massive figure to attract attention
i suppose they couldnt afford to up the ante much more for the rest though, without breaking the bank since this tourney is monthly
really if the top winners share with the teams your having your cake and eating it too
On October 07 2010 17:08 Shinta) wrote:The Runner-Up is basically labeled #2 player of Korea, and top 5 in the world.
this sentence alone shows your whole point is moot
#2 in korea IS number 2 in the world
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On October 09 2010 06:02 Cyber_Cheese wrote:first is more than three times second is a bit high, but in korean currency thats a massive figure to attract attention i suppose they couldnt afford to up the ante much more for the rest though, without breaking the bank since this tourney is monthly really if the top winners share with the teams your having your cake and eating it too Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 17:08 Shinta) wrote:The Runner-Up is basically labeled #2 player of Korea, and top 5 in the world. this sentence alone shows your whole point is moot #2 in korea IS number 2 in the world
What the heck is moot....
And being top 5 in the world leaves you with the possibility of being #2 in the world....
DERP
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First the poker comparison is horrible since the prize pool is footed by the players and to be in the money you must win more than 10k. I don't see why the round of 64 should be rewarded at all given the inequality of certain groups in qualifying. Some people played 4 hard games others got 3 byes and a couple scrubs. And they have said they want monthly tournaments so prize money every month to be had as well as the small pickups doing online tournies can bring if you are consistently in to the second or third round that is a fair living in korea sans any sponsorship money.
Also im sure as bw fades away that will free up lots of sponsorship money to flow into the gsl's as well as player sponsorship which will increase both sides of earnings.
And finally 100M is a big number that they may have wanted to hit for promotional reasons and to show worldwide that they are much bigger than any other tournament. If the prize was much more spread out and around 40k or so some foriegners may have decided they don't wanna live 6000 miles away from friends and family and take their shots at the mlg's and iem's etc that pay out slightly less and are easier to win.
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On October 07 2010 01:31 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
quite the opposite, first place prize level is really important for marketing a big event like this. their setup is definitely ideal. the question is, "too top heavy" for what? your arbitrary assessment of what's fair? why should people in the ro64 get paid more?
Because they have to spend sometimes THOUSANDS of dollars just to GET to the tournament?
It's quite discouraging for any "foreigners" to play when they have to make it to the round of 8 just to pay for their plane tickets.
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rnd of 64 should cover traveling expenses and then a bit extra. When I hear the word "Proffessional" I think of someone doing a job for a living. How can you develop 'Pro-gaming' yet not get enough money out to the people playing to make is feasible. These prize amounts aren't even enough to make up for the minimum wages of a regular job in a developed country. Ro64 still needs something.
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Agreed, it should definitely be changed.
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I feel that OP is kinda totally right IF GSL is the only thing that can get pro gamers solid incomming in korea ( or anywhere), in GSL2 we are already seeing insane players not making it into RO64, and even if they would make it, nobody outside of the "flash&jaedong of the moment" can make a living out of it.
There has already been an article that GOM TV stated they have no plans about a proleague-esque thing to do, and we probably all know that they have the exclusive rights to all sc2 related e-sports content in korea , and we have already learned that they don't like competitors in the airing and broadcasting.
So if there is no change to all this, 90 % of the best sc2 players, as smart ppl as they are just gonna be occasional players, and you expect ppl to watch it as much as they watched BW hardcore pro scene ? They maybe will, but i would never expect the skillceiling of sc2 scene to grow as much as it has in the bw scene.
Pro players, if they really gonna spend 12 hours a day ,6 days a week on perfecting their gameplay and be as awesome as we want them to be need more than what gomTV is providing.
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EPT
