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On July 20 2010 19:43 Telcontar wrote:
what do people think about the stargate & phoenix being created only for scouting? stargate is 150/150 and 60sec with the phoenix being 150/100 and 45sec. Hallucination costs 100/100 and 110sec which would've been the more economic choice with the build time being only 5sec slower. do you think he went stargates to give himself the option of getting some air support later on or did he really just create a stargate for scouting?
I think maybe he had plans for using more air units probably phoenix harass but when he saw that many hydras thought better of it and rightly so.
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On July 20 2010 19:43 Telcontar wrote:
what do people think about the stargate & phoenix being created only for scouting? stargate is 150/150 and 60sec with the phoenix being 150/100 and 45sec. Hallucination costs 100/100 and 110sec which would've been the more economic choice with the build time being only 5sec slower. do you think he went stargates to give himself the option of getting some air support later on or did he really just create a stargate for scouting?
Void Rays are beautiful in mid and late game to bolster your army if IdrA goes roaches, or against Broodlords. Good to have the tech if needed.
edit:
also FF and Guardian Shield are super important vs. Midgame Zerg, id rather have a real phoenix to scout with than to put 300-400 sentry energy just into scouting, even if it costs a bit more resources.
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On July 20 2010 20:15 papaz wrote:
And Idra, please. I know you think this is a macro game and you are a beast at the macro game but please put som effort into micro/unit control also. So boring to see you mass up and then go all in with that.
How exactly would microing have saved Idra the those games? You can question his tactic (going almost purely mass hydra) but to question that he mass up units and went heavy macro seems a little weird since that is how you usually win games with zerg and is something that most pros do. And what do you mean "think" this is a macro game? Since when isn't it? Go watch some replays and see how many times the person with the highest income throughout the game win.
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Game 2 Idra vs Tester
I know he was going to lose with this dumb 200/200 hydra but, I really thought he could do it in the last fight. Did you see his arc with hydralisks? Tester was such in a bad position.
Even with this superior position, his dumb army composition didn't make it.
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I'd have to say that my favorite games so far have been:
TLO vs. Huk Game 2 and Game 3
Idra vs. Tester Game 1
TLO and Huk just both played phenominally in games 2 and 3. Or maybe I just like seeing Archons and Battlecruisers. In game 3, TLO was just an absolute joy to watch with all his Banshee kills.
As for Idra vs. Tester Game 1, Tester contained Idra with Pylon/Cannons. Do you really need to see anything else? That play just showed a really good understanding of Idra's style and was just designed to perfectly counter it, and it did.
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On July 20 2010 19:43 Telcontar wrote:
what do people think about the stargate & phoenix being created only for scouting? stargate is 150/150 and 60sec with the phoenix being 150/100 and 45sec. Hallucination costs 100/100 and 110sec which would've been the more economic choice with the build time being only 5sec slower. do you think he went stargates to give himself the option of getting some air support later on or did he really just create a stargate for scouting?
It is quite obvious that he thought Mutalisks were coming. At the same time he was building the Stargate, he had 5 Stalkers standing behind his mineral line back home.
I think that once he saw there wasn't even a spire up, and idra was going hydra that is when he changed up his build. Overall, I would say a solid 300/250 investment as phoenixs tear up mutalisks, make great scouts, do some awesome OL harass, and can still be used for graviton beam later on if you so choose.
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Do you think burrowing his Zerglings in the front would have helped? I didn't see Tester having an Observer. Or running his Zerglings around the map to be able to attack Testers force from behind with his Zerglings and with his Hydras in the front?
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On July 20 2010 20:28 HubertFelix wrote:
Game 2 Idra vs Tester
I know he was going to lose with this dumb 200/200 hydra but, I really thought he could do it in the last fight. Did you see his arc with hydralisks? Tester was such in a bad position.
Even with this superior position, his dumb army composition didn't make it.
Idra's army composition was bad but the positioning favored Tester especially after he put down the wide arc of FF's. There's a reason why he attacks that way.
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IdrA probably would have won the first game if he just played calmly, destroyed the cannon and just expanded.
I feel he just went all rage red and threw the game away. He also left way to soon.
But then again don't know, that 2Core build is quite strong 
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+ Show Spoiler +wow I expected some rage from Idra, especially after game 1 but he gg'ed in both games.. Is it because he played against a korean ?
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On July 20 2010 21:30 Lylat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +wow I expected some rage from Idra, especially after game 1 but he gg'ed in both games.. Is it because he played against a korean ?
It's because his BM isn't nearly as much as it was years ago. Most of the perceived BM is just people's interpretation of his confidence/attitude. Really he isn't like what people attempt to paint him as.
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IdrA did fine in second game.
There's not much zerg can do against that stalker-sentry-colossus protoss ball, except maybe making ultrarisks as fast as possible, but for IdrA on that map it was too late.
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On July 20 2010 17:30 ohN wrote:
I want to hear from IdrA about game 2 but I don't think he expected collusus, he saw 7 warpgates very early and probably expected hts/dts. He didn't scout at all after initially seeing the 7 warpgates; you wouldn't need to in most cases because if the toss was actually using all 7 of those, he couldnt really make anything else. That's why I think he was caught off-guard and flat out-lost because pure hydra/ling gets destroyed by 4-6 collusus whereas hydra/ling does very well against pure gateway units. Tester threw up 2 robos after seeing that idra had nothing but hydra/ling. I think IdrA shouldve harrassed with ovy drop/nydus though, he left tester alone for most of the game.
I posted all this cause I just saw what I thought were two really good games and all I see here is "lol idra sucks" "zerg is underpowered" "idra was too intimidated" etc etc.
Idra DID scout the collosus with a changeling, but Tester caught the changeling and knew that if he didn't push out straight away Idra would be able to come up with a counter (infestors, corruptors).
That aside, Idra's control was god awful when Tester's army arrived. It took him like 5 seconds to react to the forcefields, and then when they disappeared he just threw his army against the collosus. I think it would have been much more advisable to buy time by retreating to his 3rd or main while he got up infestors (he had an infestation pit). Then again, he shouldn't have needed time; they should have already been up.
Idra has been one of my favourite SC2 players for a while, but lately he just hasn't been so great...
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Disappointing matches last night. I was waiting for sick ZvP from Idra vs Tester games.
btw day9, is it possible, you could make a extra record so the matches wont get spoiled when you're changing from game 1 to game 2?
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one game i still don't get is game 1 from dimaga.. he was pushing too a mech terran with a lot of tanks??
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Man, last nights commentary was great. Love the stream quality Sean!! I was watching in full screen mode on my TV in HD and it was amazing, looked great!
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"HE HATES PROBES! HE HAAAATES PROBES!"
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Maybe idra is just a macro zerg or maybe he choked! If anyone seen his scrim against upmagic he had broodlords off of early 3 base. Id hate to think hes not smart enough to switch from ling/hydra after scouting double robo. Tester is scary, id choke too 
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On July 20 2010 19:04 nickycakes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 18:18 Kishkumen wrote:
Now I understand why White-rA lost so badly to TLO in those showmatches a few days ago. He obviously didn't want to give away his anti-Terran build that worked beautifully against qxc. No reason to throw away a chance at $2k just to win a showmatch.
Edit: Actually, I just realized that would depend on when these games were played in relation to the showmatch. Maybe White-rA just had a bad day after all. There was crippling lag affecting that game. His voidrays were just sitting there getting killed. Lag won, not TLO.
This is true for the first showmatch, the 2nd, however which was played on the EU server, TLO won without lag 4-0 
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EPT
