EPTRazer King of the Beta by Day[9] - Page 142
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ckw
United States1018 Posts
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
other games that people have claimed were good: + Show Spoiler + TLO vs HuK 2: TLO does tons of damage with harass, has huge advantage, camps to battle-cruisers with an advantage, wins. Obviously outclasses HuK (whether due to only skill, or also partially due to MU,) so even though HuK had tons of archons, the game wasn't really close at any point, up until TLO mis-positions a huge amount of tanks, and loses them, but still wins due to Battlecruisers seemingly being super-hard for protoss to counter. TLO vs HuK 3: Once again, not even close, TLO kills HuK with harass pretty much. Dimaga vs White-Ra 1/2: I actually liked this (it wasn't bad for a cheese,) it shows a cheese that Zerg can do to try to break a double gate, or forge/gate FE'er seems like something that Protoss will have to learn how to defend in the future, kind of like ling all-in in ZvP SC1 against FE protoss. Dimaga vs White-Ra 3: garbage game, White-ra didn't check if the last pylon blocked the back of his base, lost his main as a result. TLO vs Tester 2: TLO uses a cheese-level risky opening, does a ton of damage, Tester sees he's far behind, gambles by taking fast Nexus, TLO breaks the expo and is at a huge lead, he later blows it by not having a Raven against Tester's mass Colossus push, but once again turtles up, and wins it with battle-cruisers... Admittedly his harass with medivacs was really really really strong, but once the planetory-fortresses started going up, and he got his side of the map significantly faster than Tester, and started battlecruiser production it was obvious who was gonna win that game. TLO vs Tester 3: TLO does the same cheese opening build, Tester doesn't scout it but sees the air-short positions, and decides to go for the voidray opening, which he also knows counters TLO's build from last game. TLO loses to voidrays. It seems a bit exciting because he got several probe-kills, but it wasn't really that close. QXC vs ITR games: weren't bad QXC's moving shot micro with marines was really good. ^ all of those games just rely on chains of HUGE mistakes. Idra vs TLO game 3: TLO opens with a relatively standard build, but it's a build that does require you to do damage to the drone count to stay even (imo.) He does SLIGHTLY more damage than that, Idra takes the third, and tries to compensate for the disadvantage by squeezing out a few extra drones. TLO comes out with his 4 thor + tanks all-in push, makes 1 slight mistake of taking a little too long, and positioning the first tanks a little too far, Idra BARELY defends, but recognizing that it's an all-in 2 base timing push already knows how to win after just marginally defending, doesn't bother rebuilding drones (like TLO would have done in that position imo, given how he's played other games where he got an advantage in the mid-game,) builds roaches automatically, drops them into TLO's main, collects the win off of a well-defended timing push. Only minor mistakes by both players, and it results in a CLOSE game, which ends in a 1-sided fashion (like most high level games do at the end.) | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On July 24 2010 12:56 Entropic wrote: Guys can we get back to discussing the actual tournament games instead of other stuff. Anyways, I'm rooting for Idra vs Tester #3 Same but they both have to play terrans. | ||
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Deindar
United States302 Posts
 + Show Spoiler + TLO, I still love every inch of your body (no homo), even if you lost. hope idra quits in the semis  | ||
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
On July 24 2010 12:59 Kiarip wrote: I have to say that game 3 TLO vs Idra was the only game I really liked in the entire group stages. other games that people have claimed were good: + Show Spoiler + TLO vs HuK 2: TLO does tons of damage with harass, has huge advantage, camps to battle-cruisers with an advantage, wins. Obviously outclasses HuK (whether due to only skill, or also partially due to MU,) so even though HuK had tons of archons, the game wasn't really close at any point, up until TLO mis-positions a huge amount of tanks, and loses them, but still wins due to Battlecruisers seemingly being super-hard for protoss to counter. TLO vs HuK 3: Once again, not even close, TLO kills HuK with harass pretty much. Dimaga vs White-Ra 1/2: I actually liked this (it wasn't bad for a cheese,) it shows a cheese that Zerg can do to try to break a double gate, or forge/gate FE'er seems like something that Protoss will have to learn how to defend in the future, kind of like ling all-in in ZvP SC1 against FE protoss. Dimaga vs White-Ra 3: garbage game, White-ra didn't check if the last pylon blocked the back of his base, lost his main as a result. TLO vs Tester 2: TLO uses a cheese-level risky opening, does a ton of damage, Tester sees he's far behind, gambles by taking fast Nexus, TLO breaks the expo and is at a huge lead, he later blows it by not having a Raven against Tester's mass Colossus push, but once again turtles up, and wins it with battle-cruisers... Admittedly his harass with medivacs was really really really strong, but once the planetory-fortresses started going up, and he got his side of the map significantly faster than Tester, and started battlecruiser production it was obvious who was gonna win that game. TLO vs Tester 3: TLO does the same cheese opening build, Tester doesn't scout it but sees the air-short positions, and decides to go for the voidray opening, which he also knows counters TLO's build from last game. TLO loses to voidrays. It seems a bit exciting because he got several probe-kills, but it wasn't really that close. QXC vs ITR games: weren't bad QXC's moving shot micro with marines was really good. ^ all of those games just rely on chains of HUGE mistakes. Idra vs TLO game 3: TLO opens with a relatively standard build, but it's a build that does require you to do damage to the drone count to stay even (imo.) He does SLIGHTLY more damage than that, Idra takes the third, and tries to compensate for the disadvantage by squeezing out a few extra drones. TLO comes out with his 4 thor + tanks all-in push, makes 1 slight mistake of taking a little too long, and positioning the first tanks a little too far, Idra BARELY defends, but recognizing that it's an all-in 2 base timing push already knows how to win after just marginally defending, doesn't bother rebuilding drones (like TLO would have done in that position imo, given how he's played other games where he got an advantage in the mid-game,) builds roaches automatically, drops them into TLO's main, collects the win off of a well-defended timing push. Only minor mistakes by both players, and it results in a CLOSE game, which ends in a 1-sided fashion (like most high level games do at the end.) Nice analysis, too much attention was being paid to BCs Nukes and Drops that really what secured those TLO wins were his early leads (expo bust) | ||
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
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koppik
United States676 Posts
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
Idra 2-1 QXC | ||
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Unfurl
United States272 Posts
but recognizing that it's an all-in 2 base timing push already knows how to win after just marginally defending, doesn't bother rebuilding drones (like TLO would have done in that position imo, given how he's played other games where he got an advantage in the mid-game,) builds roaches automatically, drops them into TLO's main, He didnt deny building more drones so that he could mass roaches and hope for a win...these roaches were reinforcments for the army, but idras army had won already, so the roaches were extra, so he used them to drop on tlo which just made TLO gg | ||
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Mr.Eternity
United States143 Posts
I wonder if Idra can handle qxc's early aggression, he sure wasn't showing it against TLO | ||
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Devise
Canada1131 Posts
I wonder if Idra can handle qxc's early aggression, he sure wasn't showing it against TLO Doubt it. | ||
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
On July 24 2010 13:18 Mr.Eternity wrote: I wonder if Idra can handle qxc's early aggression, he sure wasn't showing it against TLO That'll definitely be key. QXC relied on some pushes with a very tight timing window (ie. hellion/marauder) in his TvZ series with Dimaga. Hopefully Idra can scout the possible timing push and not drone pump too hard. As has been the case since the days of SC1, the longer the game goes on the better chance Idra has of taking the game. | ||
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brain_
United States812 Posts
On July 24 2010 13:07 Entropic wrote: Nice analysis, too much attention was being paid to BCs Nukes and Drops that really what secured those TLO wins were his early leads (expo bust) Its true. It was pretty sad that the game was even that close after Tester lost his FE that way. TLO seems to revert to "mech turtle to mass BCs" quite often. It works the majority of the time. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 24 2010 13:24 brain_ wrote: Its true. It was pretty sad that the game was even that close after Tester lost his FE that way. TLO seems to revert to "mech turtle to mass BCs" quite often. It works the majority of the time. maybe u guys don't know the game as well as you think you do sometimes to accomplish something (such as a timing attack) it takes sacrifices elsewhere (such as economy) what im saying is... to say that TLO won completely because of one thing or another thing is silly | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On July 24 2010 13:24 brain_ wrote: Its true. It was pretty sad that the game was even that close after Tester lost his FE that way. TLO seems to revert to "mech turtle to mass BCs" quite often. It works the majority of the time. It works because of Terran air superiority in SC2. Vikings just die to storm/fungal growth but BCs have so much HP that they can just eat it and still live to protect tanks. | ||
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RinconH
United States512 Posts
Some games is dominant and some games he just looks lost... and these can be back to back in the same series. | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
Predictions: + Show Spoiler + QXC < IdrA Tester > Rainbow Tester > IdrA | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On July 24 2010 14:11 RinconH wrote: TLO is a very inconsistent player. Some games is dominant and some games he just looks lost... and these can be back to back in the same series. It's still early days though. There is currently no player who knows what they're doing 100% hence TLO losing heavily in some games as he is experimenting a lot. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On July 24 2010 14:11 RinconH wrote: TLO is a very inconsistent player. Some games is dominant and some games he just looks lost... and these can be back to back in the same series. It's just his style that makes it seem like that. He plays extremely passive with lots of harass. If his harass goes well he dominates, if not then he fails cause his main army is so passive. In the first game for example Idra shut down his harass completely while powering and expanding. TLO was being too passive to do anything about it. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On July 24 2010 13:31 travis wrote: maybe u guys don't know the game as well as you think you do sometimes to accomplish something (such as a timing attack) it takes sacrifices elsewhere (such as economy) what im saying is... to say that TLO won completely because of one thing or another thing is silly While this is true, if you rewatch the game you'll see that when the Nexus went down TLO already had his 2nd orbital command in place... What he WAS lacking was additional production facilities, but he was definitely VERY far ahead. It's just his style that makes it seem like that. He plays extremely passive with lots of harass. If his harass goes well he dominates, if not then he fails cause his main army is so passive. In the first game for example Idra shut down his harass completely while powering and expanding. TLO was being too passive to do anything about it. And this. He plays terran the way it's "meant" to be played. Super defensive, and a lot of harass, it's fun to watch but I feel like his fan-club's admiration of his play is a little over the top. | ||
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