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On April 12 2010 08:07 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 07:00 BentoBox wrote:On April 12 2010 06:32 Sfydjklm wrote:On April 12 2010 04:03 BentoBox wrote:On April 12 2010 01:48 Rabiator wrote:The "glhf-streamers" have disappointed me a lot ... - a. they play music which "pisses off" half the viewers (and its the same stupid music every sunday) ... as if they didnt care about viewers at all and (much worse)
- b. they made Jinro wait with a game to cast it (wait because one of the two casters was having trouble) and then decided to cast a different game "because we are in a democracy". As if a chat stream and people typing (or rather spamming) 1 or 2 would be democratic or even statistically correct. This is really bad mannered IMO, but obviously they had to stream IdrA too, because only 8 observers (and many of them streamers themselves) arent enough for a game.
Apart from this the commentaries arent really that good, but that what happens, when C&C players try to comment SC2. Luckily Day[9] casts the semi-finals and finals and gives decent commentaries, but there were some neat games up until then already. Wait let me recap, a. You didn't like the music as well as many others and you wished they'd listen to the public opinion and changed it/turned it off. b. You were pissed they listened to the public opinion about which game they should cast and wished they would disregard them altogether. OKAY! Sounds to me like you're just spoiled. that's not what he said. His criticism was rather constructive overall and you should listen to it instead of coming up with what you think is a clever retort. Nah, his criticism wasn't constructive at all nor is any of the hundreds of stream whores (I'm one too). Yes it was. Period. Work on text comprehension.
No, you're wrong. Period.
+ Show Spoiler +I read his post and did not find it constructive. Maybe you should work on your comprehension of the english language?! But that would be an irrelevant thing to say given the context. Let's agree to disagree  . Or you could come up with more than one line to explain your reasoning.
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I allready explained my reasoning you got it all wrong, that's it. That's all i got to say for now.
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Oh, okay. Thanks for the clarification.
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In my mind you won the entire tournament when you put Idra in his place so grats to you Naz
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On April 12 2010 04:03 BentoBox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 01:48 Rabiator wrote:The "glhf-streamers" have disappointed me a lot ... - a. they play music which "pisses off" half the viewers (and its the same stupid music every sunday) ... as if they didnt care about viewers at all and (much worse)
- b. they made Jinro wait with a game to cast it (wait because one of the two casters was having trouble) and then decided to cast a different game "because we are in a democracy". As if a chat stream and people typing (or rather spamming) 1 or 2 would be democratic or even statistically correct. This is really bad mannered IMO, but obviously they had to stream IdrA too, because only 8 observers (and many of them streamers themselves) arent enough for a game.
Apart from this the commentaries arent really that good, but that what happens, when C&C players try to comment SC2. Luckily Day[9] casts the semi-finals and finals and gives decent commentaries, but there were some neat games up until then already. Wait let me recap, a. You didn't like the music as well as many others and you wished they'd listen to the public opinion and changed it/turned it off. b. You were pissed they listened to the public opinion about which game they should cast and wished they would disregard them altogether. OKAY! Sounds to me like you're just spoiled.
a. They DID change the music after people complained about it, but it has been the same stupid "K-pop gee-gee" song every sunday. Wouldnt it be a wise decision to NOT HAVE MUSIC when covering a tournament? We are watching the stream to watch the games and not to hear music, so personally I would like hearing the game sounds more than any music at all (after stupid K-pop he played some good stuff, but others didnt like that, so NO MUSIC is the best compromise which offends none).
b. Were you there? He asked "type 1 if you want to watch game A and 2 for game B". Then the chat simply scrolled through like mad and BOTH NUMBERS were about evenly represented. How you figure out that one person didnt type 100s of 1s or 2s from super-fast scrolling chat is beyond me, but calling that "democratic" offends my sense of math and statistics drastically.
Apart from that you dont think its really impolite to ask Jinro to wait with his game so his co-commentator could fix his problems and then NOT cover the game? This guy was dropped from a later game due to LAGGING and guess what ... IdraA lost due to lag when he was one of the dozen or so spectators. And again from the spectators point of view: We had LOTS of streams covering IdrA, but NONE that covered Jinro. Is that good for the spectators to have NO CHOICE what to watch after "giving his word" to cover Jinro?
Calling me "spoiled" when the commentator is massaging his own ego by music and only doing what he wants is beyond me. Sure he doesnt get paid, but thats not the point, because he called his stream an "official ZOTAC stream" and thus he should do what is best for the tournament and having 6-9 streams cover the same game and none the others is bad for it. As a commentator you should at least try to ignore your own partiality and give a neutral representation of the tournament.
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On April 12 2010 02:53 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 02:15 Baum wrote:On April 12 2010 01:52 Teugeus wrote:On April 12 2010 01:48 Rabiator wrote:The "glhf-streamers" have disappointed me a lot ... - a. they play music which "pisses off" half the viewers (and its the same stupid music every sunday) ... as if they didnt care about viewers at all and (much worse)
- b. they made Jinro wait with a game to cast it (wait because one of the two casters was having trouble) and then decided to cast a different game "because we are in a democracy". As if a chat stream and people typing (or rather spamming) 1 or 2 would be democratic or even statistically correct. This is really bad mannered IMO, but obviously they had to stream IdrA too, because only 8 observers (and many of them streamers themselves) arent enough for a game.
Apart from this the commentaries arent really that good, but that what happens, when C&C players try to comment SC2. Luckily Day[9] casts the semi-finals and finals and gives decent commentaries, but there were some neat games up until then already. I completely and totally agree with you. noticed they glance at their viewer count hoping for 1k+ and yet don't try in the slightest to act professional. The quality of the commentating or lack thereof doesn't help, but at least be professional, the rest can come together with time. I completely and totally agree on this, too. It really pissed me off the whole time I was watching and I was glad once Day9 started casting. Next time I'll just watch the replays of the early rounds and wait for Day9 to cast the later games. I mean I don't mind them being not as good as commentators as Day9 but what I actually can't stand is them acting like total unprofessional dicks. To be fair, they didn't "decide to stream another game", it was simply that he couldn't join my game for some reason (they tried relogging etc). We are talking about Zeeone right?
Yes we are, but ZeeOne managed to come back just a few mins later, but he lagged out later on and IdrA "lost" due to lag. So it might have been a fairer match if these two commentators didnt squeeze in with all the others too to accumulate all the spectator-lag. If these two had covered your game maybe IdrA wouldnt have lost ...
ZeeOne was commentating from South Africa and according the the nine-years old graphics posted somewhere in thes thread the connections to that area were very very small. Having him lag out might not be due to personal computer problems, but due to the location added to the beta-status of Battlenet.
Artosis dropped out due to lag too and I dont know how many spectators he had, but I guess many people wanted to watch him too. So I dont really know if it was "spectator lag" or "Korean lag" (or both!), but who wants to take that risk? Limiting the number of spectators should be mandatory for a lag-free tournament IMO. This is still a beta, right?
Adding a "ping graphic" (or whatever works best) of the spectator connections (to the tabs at the top left) might help with "quality control" for games ...
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On April 12 2010 13:58 Rabiator wrote:
a. They DID change the music after people complained about it, but it has been the same stupid "K-pop gee-gee" song every sunday. Wouldnt it be a wise decision to NOT HAVE MUSIC when covering a tournament? We are watching the stream to watch the games and not to hear music, so personally I would like hearing the game sounds more than any music at all (after stupid K-pop he played some good stuff, but others didnt like that, so NO MUSIC is the best compromise which offends none).
Yes, they did change the music, but they did not have to. Those people you refer to who were complaining about the music also were in no way a sample representative of the other 300+ viewers. The fact that you decided to be vocal about it shouldn't have forced them to change anything. They are offering a service and adding their personal touch to it as seen fit, because they can and because that's what differentiates them from the "6~9 other streams". If you do not like it, nobody is forcing you to stay, just like nobody forces you to listen to KawaiiRice's music on his streams. News flash: There's a mute button you can use to filter out what you don't want to want to listen to! Kpop was only played during the breaks and the background music during the casts was greatly overshadow by the casters.
On April 12 2010 13:58 Rabiator wrote:
b. Were you there? He asked "type 1 if you want to watch game A and 2 for game B". Then the chat simply scrolled through like mad and BOTH NUMBERS were about evenly represented. How you figure out that one person didnt type 100s of 1s or 2s from super-fast scrolling chat is beyond me, but calling that "democratic" offends my sense of math and statistics drastically.
Apart from that you dont think its really impolite to ask Jinro to wait with his game so his co-commentator could fix his problems and then NOT cover the game? This guy was dropped from a later game due to LAGGING and guess what ... IdraA lost due to lag when he was one of the dozen or so spectators. And again from the spectators point of view: We had LOTS of streams covering IdrA, but NONE that covered Jinro. Is that good for the spectators to have NO CHOICE what to watch after "giving his word" to cover Jinro?
They didn't give anybody their word. The relations the casters have with the players also has very little to do with the listeners, so I'm not going to get between that. And implying that Idra's loss was precipitated by their presence is laughable. Asia-EU latency is poor. Artosis was complaining about the very same thing. In game lag also goes both ways.
Also, it seems "democracy" really is only valued when seen fit, eh? I could also argue that there were indeed more vocal people in the chat actually wishing not to watch Jinro. But hey, we'll never know. You are arbitrarily taking a side based on a coin-flip and/or elements that simply aren't any of your business.
On April 12 2010 13:58 Rabiator wrote:
Calling me "spoiled" when the commentator is massaging his own ego by music and only doing what he wants is beyond me. Sure he doesnt get paid, but thats not the point, because he called his stream an "official ZOTAC stream" and thus he should do what is best for the tournament and having 6-9 streams cover the same game and none the others is bad for it. As a commentator you should at least try to ignore your own partiality and give a neutral representation of the tournament.
2 days ago, they were playing C&C/RA music and all the vocal people (read: everyone in your terms) in the chat enjoyed it and some even had special requests which they saw fit to respect simply for fun. You are trying to make them out as the devil when they are simply trying to enjoy themselves. Being an official ZOTAC stream means he gets to cover ZOTAC games. Since there were no other "official" streams at the time, I don't see how it would make sense that they should be influenced by the myriads of third parties out there.
Stream owners getting to lead their streams the way they intend to; we can't have that!
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On April 12 2010 16:19 BentoBox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 13:58 Rabiator wrote:
a. They DID change the music after people complained about it, but it has been the same stupid "K-pop gee-gee" song every sunday. Wouldnt it be a wise decision to NOT HAVE MUSIC when covering a tournament? We are watching the stream to watch the games and not to hear music, so personally I would like hearing the game sounds more than any music at all (after stupid K-pop he played some good stuff, but others didnt like that, so NO MUSIC is the best compromise which offends none). Yes, they did change the music, but they did not have to. Those people you refer to who were complaining about the music also were in no way a sample representative of the other 300+ viewers. The fact that you decided to be vocal about it shouldn't have forced them to change anything. They are offering a service and adding their personal touch to it as seen fit, because they can and because that's what differentiates them from the "6~9 other streams". If you do not like it, nobody is forcing you to stay, just like nobody forces you to listen to KawaiiRice's music on his streams. News flash: There's a mute button you can use to filter out what you don't want to want to listen to! Kpop was only played during the breaks and the background music during the casts was greatly overshadow by the casters.
Lets face it: When people are asked to participate there is a majority who doesnt do it. If the 300+ people each had typed just one letter in the chat you would never be able to read it. So a minority is actively participating. Do you really want to argue that all those 280+ who dont complain are happy with Gunruns beloved K-Pop?
You argue that I can mute the channel and that is true, but a muted channel isnt the same as one which simply uses the game sounds and let alone a channel in which I can actually hear a decent commentary on top of that. I am trying to improve the channel for everyone by pointing out pretty obvious mistakes IMO by choosing "niche music" (it is a european tournamen with a huge number of european viewers and I dont hink K-pop is anywhere in our charts) and by giving semi-useless commentary.
On April 12 2010 16:19 BentoBox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 13:58 Rabiator wrote:
b. Were you there? He asked "type 1 if you want to watch game A and 2 for game B". Then the chat simply scrolled through like mad and BOTH NUMBERS were about evenly represented. How you figure out that one person didnt type 100s of 1s or 2s from super-fast scrolling chat is beyond me, but calling that "democratic" offends my sense of math and statistics drastically.
Apart from that you dont think its really impolite to ask Jinro to wait with his game so his co-commentator could fix his problems and then NOT cover the game? This guy was dropped from a later game due to LAGGING and guess what ... IdraA lost due to lag when he was one of the dozen or so spectators. And again from the spectators point of view: We had LOTS of streams covering IdrA, but NONE that covered Jinro. Is that good for the spectators to have NO CHOICE what to watch after "giving his word" to cover Jinro? They didn't give anybody their word. The relations the casters have with the players also has very little to do with the listeners, so I'm not going to get between that. And implying that Idra's loss was precipitated by their presence is laughable. Asia-EU latency is poor. Artosis was complaining about the very same thing. In game lag also goes both ways. Also, it seems "democracy" really is only valued when seen fit, eh? I could also argue that there were indeed more vocal people in the chat actually wishing not to watch Jinro. But hey, we'll never know. You are arbitrarily taking a side based on a coin-flip and/or elements that simply aren't any of your business.
If I ask somebody "Wait with your game so my co-commentator can get his troubles fixed and we can cover your game" I have given my word. I dont need a solemn formula "I, Rabiator, do solemnly swear to cover your game if there is rain or storm." Mabybe its different for you, but I am apparently different.
On April 12 2010 16:19 BentoBox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 13:58 Rabiator wrote:
Calling me "spoiled" when the commentator is massaging his own ego by music and only doing what he wants is beyond me. Sure he doesnt get paid, but thats not the point, because he called his stream an "official ZOTAC stream" and thus he should do what is best for the tournament and having 6-9 streams cover the same game and none the others is bad for it. As a commentator you should at least try to ignore your own partiality and give a neutral representation of the tournament. 2 days ago, they were playing C&C/RA music and all the vocal people (read: everyone in your terms) in the chat enjoyed it and some even had special requests which they saw fit to respect simply for fun. You are trying to make them out as the devil when they are simply trying to enjoy themselves. Being an official ZOTAC stream means he gets to cover ZOTAC games. Since there were no other "official" streams at the time, I don't see how it would make sense that they should be influenced by the myriads of third parties out there. Stream owners getting to lead their streams the way they intend to; we can't have that!
Well the guys are interested in reaching more people. They have the quality to do it (apart from the missing top line). It would be a waste to put it into a niche coverage, because he plays music which isnt liked by a clear majority and most watch the stream because they are interested in THE GAME and not THE MUSIC. We can all play music we like in our own homes after all, but the commentary is something we cant do (because you need to be able to follow the units and jump where you want on the battlefield for that).
Sure he is King of his own stream, but bigger acceptance comes from good content and not just good visual stream quality.
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Dimaga hasn't played in the last three ZOTACs. Anyone know what's up? He was the undoubted king of SCII in Europe just a month ago.
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On April 12 2010 18:02 Rabiator wrote:
Well the guys are interested in reaching more people. They have the quality to do it (apart from the missing top line). It would be a waste to put it into a niche coverage, because he plays music which isnt liked by a clear majority and most watch the stream because they are interested in THE GAME and not THE MUSIC. We can all play music we like in our own homes after all, but the commentary is something we cant do (because you need to be able to follow the units and jump where you want on the battlefield for that).
Sure he is King of his own stream, but bigger acceptance comes from good content and not just good visual stream quality.
First off, whether it's "reasonable" for me to think so or not, you're offending me. I understand this might be your way of being constructive, but the way your phrasing things makes me want to tell you to **** off sooner than listen to what you're actually trying to bring across. That said, I'm going to completely ignore the tone of the conversation because it doesn't actually get me anywhere. But I would advise you that in the future as a general rule, if you want to give constructive feedback, you may want to phrase it a little more gently because it's really hard to identify what is legitimate and what is just lashing out. But enough of that, this is the internet and all that jazz.
That said, we are 100% committed to increasing the quality of the content so we do appreciate your thoughts. As for the music, personally I can't even hear the music while co-casting, but I do know it's just a playlist that's thrown together. Meaning it's not going to be a lot of trouble replacing it. Question is, what would you like to listen to? Because it's really hard to please everyone. Just "better music" is kind of impossible to work with. Would you want ingame music during the games and "other" music in between games? Or nothing but gamesounds and commentary? (from my experience as a shoutcaster I can already tell you this would be considerably less appealing)
In our eyes, if the background music of all things is our main problem, we're improving rapidly.
I guess in short, I'm trying to say; "ok, we acknowledge the problem, sir, how would you like it done differently?"
Also as a sidenote, the lobby bug had nothing to do with ZeeOne. It's a known bug and no one can join the game at that point, this one I don't think it's at all fair to put on our account. I think that was just before I came on? Or just after when I had to cast a different game? Regardless, I caught what happened from watching the stream and that is not ZeeOne's fault in any way, shape or form. His crash issues however were and we did and will once again publicly apologize for the countdown it caused in that one game. His system seemed to have overheated, technical difficulties he has worked on fixing. That the only reason I came on to cast that day to begin with, to give him more time to work out those issues.
I remember because I had a cod4 tournament 45 minutes after and had only just gotten home so my dinner that night consisted of cold french fries (blergh) a few hours later.
We're really down to earth, so if you want to talk to us, I promise you don't have to shout to be heard on here. We realize that listening to the viewers in most cases is in our own best interest so we have every intention to do our best and work any reasonable demands into the content.
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On April 12 2010 21:20 tyCe wrote:
Dimaga hasn't played in the last three ZOTACs. Anyone know what's up? He was the undoubted king of SCII in Europe just a month ago.
dont worry dimaga said that he decided he wants to go pro in sc2.
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Check in starting in 40 minutes.
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anyone else having trouble logging on to their account? i dont read german so i really dont understand what the problem is
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On April 12 2010 18:02 Rabiator wrote:
Lets face it: When people are asked to participate there is a majority who doesnt do it. If the 300+ people each had typed just one letter in the chat you would never be able to read it. So a minority is actively participating. Do you really want to argue that all those 280+ who dont complain are happy with Gunruns beloved K-Pop?
You argue that I can mute the channel and that is true, but a muted channel isnt the same as one which simply uses the game sounds and let alone a channel in which I can actually hear a decent commentary on top of that. I am trying to improve the channel for everyone by pointing out pretty obvious mistakes IMO by choosing "niche music" (it is a european tournamen with a huge number of european viewers and I dont hink K-pop is anywhere in our charts) and by giving semi-useless commentary.
I like how you speak on behalf of those people who dont say anything in Chat.
I am one of those. And for sure i would rather listen to some silly K-pop than that crap thats so called mainstream which runs on our radio stations LOL.
Anyways, next time dont tune in but instead make your own Stream with perfect Commentary, no lag and nice music by the latest Idol winners for your 10 viewers.
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On April 18 2010 20:04 Pulimuli wrote:
anyone else having trouble logging on to their account? i dont read german so i really dont understand what the problem is
send me pm with text if you like i will translate
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LoL Sen vs DIMAGA in round 2...
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anyone know the irc channel for contacting admins? thanks
edit : found it #zotac.sc2 at irc.quakenet.org:6667 for anyone else that needs it
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nice to see Satinii playing, as i remember, he played Wc3 for fnatic a long time ago.
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EPT
