I haven't found a consistent strategy to use to counter any mass cyclone armies. My win rate is about 25% where the only wins are from micro misclicks or being heavily outmacroed. Last night I played a GM on frost where I constantly stopped his early hellion/cyclone/lib pushes and contained him on 3 bases but he managed to stretch it out by rustling to a 35 minute game and eventually massed libs with cyclones. I tried combos of ultras, mutas, lingbane, roaches, broodlords, and before quitting infestors. I could not touch his army once he got to that comp.

I seem to handle early hellion/hellbat/cyclone pressure fine, but mid to late game what are my unit comp goals? Should I have gone into turtle nose too with mass static defense and vipers/queens/broods? That game left me frustrated and I realized I have no solid idea on how to handle cyclones effectively.

Any help would be appreciated.

sc2chronic

United States777 Posts

October 06 2016 20:32 GMT

Turtling to a 35 min game* (autocorrect, tho he did rustle my jimmies)

jinjin5000

United States1546 Posts

October 06 2016 20:36 GMT

Think broods are way too slow to deal with cyclone. You need more mobile army. Money fungal would be ideal but a good player would scan ahead

Beelzebub1

1004 Posts

October 06 2016 20:36 GMT

Lol I just lost to this, invested into alot of Infestors but they are so fast and hit from such a long range that landing fungals without bleeding tons of Infestors is just idk, very punishing.

I hope they don't leave the Cyclone like this, the last thing this game needs is another punishing early - mid game unit.

KarneEspada

United States72 Posts

October 06 2016 23:29 GMT

Literally just burrow roaches. Burrow cancels lock on. This is why cyclones are useless. (Assuming you aren't referencing to the playtest matchmaking)

sc2chronic

United States777 Posts

October 07 2016 01:22 GMT

On October 07 2016 08:29 KarneEspada wrote:
Literally just burrow roaches. Burrow cancels lock on. This is why cyclones are useless. (Assuming you aren't referencing to the playtest matchmaking)

havent ever thought of that... thx!

BronzeKnee

United States5220 Posts

October 07 2016 04:00 GMT

Forum Rules:

The following is an explanation of all the types of threads and tags in the Starcraft 2 Strategy Forums.
[H] Help Thread: Post a replay, give your own analysis, get help! Aka "Why did I lose?"
Posting a [H] Thread:
It is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay.
Additionally, first put some thought into what happened in the game, and include your own analysis into the thread. It might be wrong, but try your best. It doesn't have to be long; just a few lines is enough to give people a starting point to give you advice. The more analysis you give, the better advice you will get in return. Your thread will be closed if you won’t put any effort into it.
If you have specific questions, ask them along with your analysis. It’s always easier to reply if we know what exactly you need help with.
The macro factor: Before asking for advice, please read the guidelines for replay analysis. You should be able to determine if you lost because of macro or not. If you lost because of macro, we permit specific questions about macro. Do not ask for generic advice. Instead, ask for specific advice based off of the replays you post. Examples include:
He was able to get an expansion up and he held an economic lead all game, what should I do in response to this after my opening from the replay?

Post a replay.

graNite

Germany4434 Posts

October 07 2016 09:41 GMT

On October 07 2016 13:00 BronzeKnee wrote:
Forum Rules:

The following is an explanation of all the types of threads and tags in the Starcraft 2 Strategy Forums.
[H] Help Thread: Post a replay, give your own analysis, get help! Aka "Why did I lose?"
Posting a [H] Thread:
It is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay.
Additionally, first put some thought into what happened in the game, and include your own analysis into the thread. It might be wrong, but try your best. It doesn't have to be long; just a few lines is enough to give people a starting point to give you advice. The more analysis you give, the better advice you will get in return. Your thread will be closed if you won’t put any effort into it.
If you have specific questions, ask them along with your analysis. It’s always easier to reply if we know what exactly you need help with.
The macro factor: Before asking for advice, please read the guidelines for replay analysis. You should be able to determine if you lost because of macro or not. If you lost because of macro, we permit specific questions about macro. Do not ask for generic advice. Instead, ask for specific advice based off of the replays you post. Examples include:
He was able to get an expansion up and he held an economic lead all game, what should I do in response to this after my opening from the replay?

Post a replay.

While this is true and should always be done, posting replays will often result in others searching for other reasons you lost and not answer the specific question. This happened to me a few times already.

The problem I often have with them are their ability to harass: i can not defend bases with static defense because they outrange and easily kill spine crawlers and hatcheries.

Do I need to post replays for this? I think everyone can imagine that.

BronzeKnee

United States5220 Posts

October 12 2016 05:05 GMT

I didn't write the rules.

And I can't tell you how many times someone will say something is the reason they lost (some OP unit or strategy) when they built 50 workers on two bases when facing a one base all-in, or just got purely out-macroed.

People need to know why they lost and what they can do about that, and if they are posting on TL about it, it is because they can't figure it out themselves. We can't help someone without the replay because then we are trusting them to tell us what happened, when clearly they can't see it. These threads also have a strong tendency to turn into balance whine fests with a replay.

I have a very strong feeling this guy threw away units in a wasteful manner. But we can't know without a replay...

On October 07 2016 18:41 graNite wrote:

The problem I often have with them are their ability to harass: i can not defend bases with static defense because they outrange and easily kill spine crawlers and hatcheries.

Do I need to post replays for this? I think everyone can imagine that.

Everyone can imagine it, and the answer is so simple you shouldn't need to ask the question (don't defend with static defenses), and if you do, then it should be asked in the Simple Questions, Simple Answers thread of the strategy forum because a replay is not required there.

[H] threads are not for simple questions simple answers.

Seeker

Where dat snitch at?37088 Posts

October 12 2016 05:55 GMT

#10

Please post up a replay or replays for people to watch or I will have to close the thread.

sc2chronic

United States777 Posts

October 12 2016 06:27 GMT

#11

wow i forgot about this. btw, burrow roaches worked like a charm. terrans only have so many scans before they run out. ive only had one cyclone game since this, but i beat him very convincingly. thx!

and yes plz close thread now

BarcodeTerran_

5 Posts

October 20 2016 16:49 GMT

#12

DISCLAIMER: I'm no Zerg, but I've used the 2 factory cyclone build alot in the past, and these are just my experiences.

Fungals and ling bane tend to work pretty well. You just have to pick your fights very carefully, and the speedling/bane would most likely force him to go hellions/hellbats which would cut into his Cyclone production pretty heavy.

However, if this is the 2 factory cyclone build that Nathanias/Avilo does where he flies his barrack over to high ground vision (especially on King Sejong), you're pretty much fucked and he will snipe your Queens for days. In that situation, I would just mass a critical amount of speedlings with counter attacks into his base whenever he pulls a critical amount of army units.

ANOTHER thing you can do is go burrow roaches, because burrow cancels lock on.

PiGStarcraft

Australia999 Posts

October 21 2016 14:19 GMT

#13

Just roaches and creep spread. Once roach speed kicks in they'll trade poorly. Cyclones weakness is how slow and expensive they are to build. They need to be insanely cost efficient to beat roaches

Usually when I used to lose to this and when I see others lose to it it's because the zerg gets tilted and stops microing his roaches back and forward. Accept the fact you'll lose a few roaches, always re-spread creep, and mix roaches and drones. Once roach speed kicks in you can chase the cyclones off pretty easy.

As the game goes later infestors work well, but personally I prefer to just go vipers since they counter every mech unit in existence. Mass abduct is fun

Eventually broods is pretty awesome, but roach-hydra-viper can get the job done (always can vs any mech comp).

P.S. does burrow cancel lock on if they scan before you burrow? Like if it's lategame mass cyclone he could just scan constantly so I assume it doesn't help in that scenario

realityyy

Germany50 Posts

December 22 2016 00:05 GMT

#14

bend over and take it

User was warned for this post

Catpockets

1 Post

January 02 2017 05:28 GMT

#15

I used mutas to create pressure on their back line and turtled my expansions with spines and reinforced with roaches to great success. Only needed about 12 mutas and would just pick off scvs and any loan cyclones I could find.

He ended up trying to counter attack with his cyclones but the spines/roaches held off and the mutas cleaned up stragglers. Just don't run mutas into the group. Lol

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