EPTAlso I've asked a million times before but if you have any tips on improving mindset I'm all ears because I still have a very hard time dealing with losing.
The LotV Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 45
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Also I've asked a million times before but if you have any tips on improving mindset I'm all ears because I still have a very hard time dealing with losing. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
If you scout it in time send drones: If you didn't scout it in time: - double spine in your main, one in your mineral mine, one near your pool, but not at front! - either bane nest or roach warren instantly ( no ling speed ) - constant unit production + queens if possible - banes or roaches once tech done Aside from that you want to scout terran at ~4:00 for what will be the first attack then again once you get lair to see their tech dedication. Obviously if you add replays we could help more. In regards to mindset, well, the worst part of losing is when you can't understand how/why you lost, that's when you get angry, when you get tilted and frustrated. So my recommendation is when you lose take a 2 minute break to just wash the adrenaline out and then go over the replay in depth, understand exactly why you lost, how you can scout it, what you could have done better, what your opponent did exceptionally well, it really takes the sting out. | ||
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straycat
230 Posts
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On November 14 2016 16:17 straycat wrote: How do I defend cannon rush in lotv? My usual response is to pull 4 drones per cannon, but they sim city them in with pylons or pylons+minerals and more cannons, etc, so it's neigh impossible to stop. I even go gas pool hatch, but still cant do anything about it. It's sick. Pool first actually doesn't help you that much against a cannon rush, you still need to do the first response with drones, Unless you are going for pool first into no expand which means you are super committed to aggression you probably can't pull off because protoss has a forge up ( no duh ), you're gonna need to bite the bullet and learn to hold cannon rushes with drones. Here are a few tips: - Take hatch at 16 then first drone after rallied to nat to scout, trust me the timing works, next two are gas, pool. - when you see it starts send drones. Your first priority is to send two drones with shift-hold position to the problematic positions, where protoss can enclose a cannon, never touch those again. - second priority is to use drones to defend, two directed at the probe, four for each additional cannon. ( four drones hitting a cannon that just started building will kill it before it's finished ) If you see two probes, immediately send all but three-four drones - third priority is making a pool, pulling off gas, and making a queen - then micro your workers as best you can against the probes and remember to macro - if you kill probes and canons and the pylons remain you HAVE to still clean them up, or a second massive cannon warp in or a mothership core can turn them into a very big problems. Every time you lose to this don't get angry, make note of where he enclosed his cannons and remember those as the locations you want to send the first priority drones to hold. If he gets an enclosed cannon up: - cancel your hatch at the last possible moment and try retaking it at third or blocking his nat. - make sure to take both your gases asap to avoid getting them blocked by his probes, only fill one for start, then second once you fully saturate - drop roach warren ( no ling speed ) instantly - break out of contain with ravagers then go harass his nat. - maintain queen production and get some spores after you take your nat. as an air follow up is the most common action here is a good video on this: | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Follow as Asi wrote but take a second gas and immediately get a lair for a nydus all in. Take a second gas immediately, saturate your main and both gasses while getting a lair with your first 100 gas. Do not inject with your first queen. Grab 5-6 roaches and spend the rest of your larva on lings. On lair, build a nydus and a second queen. Keep your OL near his main out of his vision. Usually either the corner of his natural or main will lack vision so he will not see the nydus building. Load your queens in first so they unload first and can transfuse to keep the nydus alive while the army exits it. Aim for pylons then probes while focusing the mothership core with your queens. Build an additional queen at home since it's not larva intensive and you will be building a bank since you're not injecting. If you can destroy his main but he's cannon'd his natural or vice versa just go home and expand normally. Be sure to scout to see if the follow up will be stargate or DTs. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On November 14 2016 17:53 Probe1 wrote: An alternative option is to go all in if the cannon rush succeeds. Follow as Asi wrote but take a second gas and immediately get a lair for a nydus all in. Take a second gas immediately, saturate your main and both gasses while getting a lair with your first 100 gas. Do not inject with your first queen. Grab 5-6 roaches and spend the rest of your larva on lings. On lair, build a nydus and a second queen. Keep your OL near his main out of his vision. Usually either the corner of his natural or main will lack vision so he will not see the nydus building. Load your queens in first so they unload first and can transfuse to keep the nydus alive while the army exits it. Aim for pylons then probes while focusing the mothership core with your queens. Build an additional queen at home since it's not larva intensive and you will be building a bank since you're not injecting. If you can destroy his main but he's cannon'd his natural or vice versa just go home and expand normally. Be sure to scout to see if the follow up will be stargate or DTs. Agreed, nydus all in can be a very strong follow up but I would recommend it only in cases where there was a very large committal to the cannon rush, as in multiple cannons and multiple pylons completed, I think at least three cannons and five pylons. If you got contained by anything less then that, by the time you get to the nydus attack they can have enough pylons and a robo to defend at home. | ||
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straycat
230 Posts
On November 14 2016 17:21 IcemanAsi wrote: Pool first actually doesn't help you that much against a cannon rush, you still need to do the first response with drones, Unless you are going for pool first into no expand which means you are super committed to aggression you probably can't pull off because protoss has a forge up ( no duh ), you're gonna need to bite the bullet and learn to hold cannon rushes with drones. Here are a few tips: - Take hatch at 16 then first drone after rallied to nat to scout, trust me the timing works, next two are gas, pool. - when you see it starts send drones. Your first priority is to send two drones with shift-hold position to the problematic positions, where protoss can enclose a cannon, never touch those again. - second priority is to use drones to defend, two directed at the probe, four for each additional cannon. ( four drones hitting a cannon that just started building will kill it before it's finished ) If you see two probes, immediately send all but three-four drones - third priority is making a pool, pulling off gas, and making a queen - then micro your workers as best you can against the probes and remember to macro - if you kill probes and canons and the pylons remain you HAVE to still clean them up, or a second massive cannon warp in Thanks! Nice with such a detailed response. I'll field test this input on ladder...  | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On November 14 2016 17:53 Probe1 wrote: An alternative option is to go all in if the cannon rush succeeds. Follow as Asi wrote but take a second gas and immediately get a lair for a nydus all in. Take a second gas immediately, saturate your main and both gasses while getting a lair with your first 100 gas. Do not inject with your first queen. Grab 5-6 roaches and spend the rest of your larva on lings. On lair, build a nydus and a second queen. Keep your OL near his main out of his vision. Usually either the corner of his natural or main will lack vision so he will not see the nydus building. Load your queens in first so they unload first and can transfuse to keep the nydus alive while the army exits it. Aim for pylons then probes while focusing the mothership core with your queens. Build an additional queen at home since it's not larva intensive and you will be building a bank since you're not injecting. If you can destroy his main but he's cannon'd his natural or vice versa just go home and expand normally. Be sure to scout to see if the follow up will be stargate or DTs. My experience tells me that if its a cannon rush into stargate then a nydus is absolutely a good option, but if its a cannon rush into robo, then it won't be good, and due to the commitment if I lose the nydus attack i lost the game as he is on 2 bases and I'm on 1. Since most cannon rushers go for stargate for some reason, it works great for me, but there was a case of a cannon rusher who was going for a robo transition and I was dead at the end. Queen roach ling can't deal well with immortals adept, and the nydus dies hard to immortals even with transfuses, while the stargate follow up doesn't deal well with the nydus at all, especially if I have 3-4 queens, and more queens coming. | ||
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SerpaN92
2 Posts
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On November 16 2016 20:30 SerpaN92 wrote: If my opponent is going Lurker / Spore turtle, is Swarm host an alternative to kill him fast or do I have to wait for vipers and play ZvMech HotS simulator and die of boredom? That...really shouldn't be happening, have you got a replay? | ||
Haku
Germany550 Posts
Like when you have all your ling bane on the hotkey "1" and a terran is dropping your main and you wanna split a group of your main hotkey off. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On November 16 2016 20:30 SerpaN92 wrote: If my opponent is going Lurker / Spore turtle, is Swarm host an alternative to kill him fast or do I have to wait for vipers and play ZvMech HotS simulator and die of boredom? If you are even you should simply roll him with roach ravagers. He can do that thing if 1) he's very ahead and he could kill you with roaches but he is sadistic 2) you allowed him to do it by being passive and not teching yourself. | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
Which builds would you guys recommend for each matchup? | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On November 20 2016 05:29 blae000 wrote: I am getting back into the game. I have not played a single game since hots, so I am not used to the changes. Therefore I am looking around for a general, "all round" build in each matchup. Something relatively simple and straigth forward.. Just to get into it. I don't want to dig to deep into things before I get a feel for the game again. But there aren't as many builds and guids floating around as back in the day.. Which builds would you guys recommend for each matchup? http://allthingszerg.com/ e: it seems the site is down now, but I got a copy saved in Chrome. I formatted everything: + Show Spoiler + ZvZ: + Show Spoiler [Opening] + Hatch Gas Pool 17 Hatchery 18 Extractor 17 Pool 19 Overlord (Stop Droning) @Spawning Pool 2x Queens 1x Zerglings (Scout) Metabolic Boost Continue Droning 30 Hatchery + Show Spoiler [Follow up] + Ling Bane Into Roach 30 Baneling Nest 30 Queen 32 Overlord 32-44 Lings ~50 Roach Warren + Extractor @2 Base Saturation Lair Evolution Chamber Extractor + Show Spoiler [Scouting] + 1 Base Ling Bane Any form of pool/gas without expo First overlord sees zerglings before natural First overlord sees no natural Constant ling production. Baneling nest before speed, and a spine at the edge of the main. Queens are very good at defense, get more if you can afford it. Early pool expand ~10 zerglings to kill natural First overlord sees lings First overlord sees natural Immediately make 6 lings. Pull ~8 drones with lings and defend the natural like your life depends on it. + Show Spoiler [Guides] + ZvP + Show Spoiler [Opening] + Hatch Gas Pool 17 Hatchery 18 Extractor 17 Spawning Pool 19 Overlord 20 Stop Droning @Spawning Pool 2x Queens 1x Zerglings (Clear Third) Metabolic Boost 2x Off Gas Continue Droning 30 Hatchery + Show Spoiler [Follow up] + Ravager Ling Bane 29 3x Zerglings 32 Overlord 44 Roach Warren ~8 Roaches + lings for defense 3x On Gas Extractor Queen 4:30-5:00 Evolution Chamber +1 Melee Lair Baneling Nest @3 base saturation Hatch Only run 4 gasses, and run 1-2 macro hatches as you have the money. + Show Spoiler [Scouting] + 3:30 overlord scout Archon Drop 2 archons dropped at ~5:50 1x Twilight Council (Idle) 1x Building Gateways 1x Building Robotics Facility 1x Finished Gateway 1x Cybernetics Core (Researching) 1x Building Dark Shrine Spore in each mineral line (In case DT), make a handful of roaches to guard each base. Focus warp prism with queens. Keep units spread out to mitigate splash damage. Glaive Adepts ~8 glaive adepts @ 5:00 1x Twilight Council (Researching) 2x Building Gateways 1x Finished Gateway 1x Cybernetics Core (Researching) Existing roach/ling should handle it. Keep an eye on their third - If it's not going down, keep producing units. Remember to split your units to follow the shades. Oracle Single oracle 1x building stargate Build a spore in each mineral line + Show Spoiler [Guides] + ZvT: + Show Spoiler [Opening] + Hatch Gas Pool 17 Hatchery 18 Extractor 17 Spawning Pool 19 Overlord (Stop Droning) @Spawning Pool 2x Queens 3x Zerglings (For Reaper) Metabolic Boost 3x Off Gas Continue Droning 30 Hatchery + Show Spoiler [Follow up] + Ultra Rush 30 Queen 32 Overlord 44 Back on gas @50 Gas Baneling Nest Extractor @100 Gas 2x Evolution Chamber * +1 Melee +1 Carapace @100 Gas Lair 44~52 Lings Take gasses as bases are saturated * Upgrades before lair + Show Spoiler [Scouting] + 3:30 overlord scout 2-1-1 Double medivac stim drop, leaves base @ 5:00 1x Barracks with Reactor 1x Barracks with Tech Lab 1x Factory building Reactor 1x Building Starport Build another queen and 4 banelings before getting 1-1. Focus the medivacs with 2-3 queens, and do not engage off creep. Widowmine drop Single medivac widowmine/marine drop, leaves base @ ~3:45 1x Barrack with building Reactor 1x Naked Factory 1x Naked Starport Build a spore in each mineral line, and bring your creep spread queen to focus the medivac. Keep your zerglings below the medivac. Hellion Banshee 4-8 hellions + 1-2 banshees 1x Starport with Tech Lab 1x Factory with Reactor * Armory Spore in each mineral line / where you think you'll defend the banshee. Pull all your inject queens to the creep spreading queen, and make 3 more for injects. Focus the banshee with your queens and try to surround the hellions with your lings. * If there's an armory, make 4-8 banelings before the attack to deal with hellbats. Hellion drop Single medivac hellion drop, arrives ~5:00 1x Naked Barracks 1x Factory with Reactor 1x Naked Starport Usually goes to main - Move overlords to spot. Intercept with queens/lings. Not very strong if scouted. + Show Spoiler [Guides] + Also watch PiG daily, every ZvX episode is absolute gold. All credit to Railgan who made the original site and PiG who made all the guides here (lol). Can we replace the outdated OP with the spoiler? | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 13 2016 18:20 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I just lost to 1 base aggression from Terran 2 games in a row. First game was a 4rax marine proxy which I didn't even know was a thing then I got 1 base hellbat/marine dropped which was stupid as fuck because I scouted and just didn't think it was a thing. How do I scout vs Terran better? Also I've asked a million times before but if you have any tips on improving mindset I'm all ears because I still have a very hard time dealing with losing. Bit of an old post but I don't think it was completely covered and I want to take a crack at it. There are a lot of resources from Neuro and PiG on this and you should definitely check out their youtube channels. Neuro in particular does a lot of good stuff. His major in college was (drum roll) neuroscience so he has a lot of insight on it. I'm going to give my personal advice instead of rehashing theirs. 1. Acceptance. We often aren't put in confrontational, competitive situations where it is decided who is better at something. Competitive gaming is the opposite of that. Every match we're deciding who is the better player. Many people here are better players than I am or ever will be. I accept them and learn from them. When someone beats me I think of them as a peer that taught me about myself and where I am not the best. Every replay is an opportunity to improve yourself. Throughout the history of competitive gaming there have been people that get stuck at a level because their opponent "didn't play fair". It's not my fault I lost, he fucking cheesed me! Et cetera. By saying this you are mitigating your loss instead of accepting it and treating it as a lesson on how to improve. So you don't improve. 2. Redirecting anger. I get mad sometimes I'm not perfect. Instead of telling my opponent to suck my dick I leave. I get up and go outside or start exercising or make tea. Put your frustration and disappointment into something other than your opponent. It may feel cathartic to call someone that beat you horrible things. It won't improve your play and it will wear you down over the long term. Yesterday I had a ten minute conversation with another Zerg player about how I personally (Probe1) was the reason why Starcraft 2 is dead. I deviously opened with the same exact build on Apotheosis as he did by 17/18/17 at the gold instead of natural. I recognize through being beaten before that droning a regular amount after taking the gold base is very risky and you need to open more aggressively to avoid ugly situations like 8 banes waddling into a very open gold base. My opponent did not. Instead of accepting that my ling bane play was tighter than his and he over-droned, he directed his frustration at me and we had a 10 minute conversation on why the world is full of evil people like me. This did not help him. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
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Reki
Philippines89 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 22 2016 13:03 Reki wrote: I heard the patch is up. Are we fucked now that banshees are as fast as mutas and are at your base @5 mins if proxied? I don't think it's rolled out to all servers yet. I don't know. Maybe. Mutalisks are still 0.4 faster (5.6 Muta speed to 5.25 banshee speed). Banshees do the same amount of damage as oracles. We're not fucked when Protoss proxies some stargates. It's hard to defend but it's defendable. Plus 5 minutes is cutting it super fine. The upgrade takes 121 seconds so they would have to be throwing down that proxied starport at 3 or 3:30. Their main base will look weird and your spidey sense should be tingling at that point. Either way your lair will have already started or will start soon so it's only a painful minute of defending with queens. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
And mutalisks are playable now which makes banshees even worse. | ||
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