EPT
The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 52
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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Hyper1
158 Posts
So literally, this patch is now a nerf to protoss and buff to zerg, when protoss is drastically far behind everyone else. All because they don't want terran to need to defend against protoss harass at all. So looks like protoss won't be coming back to SC anytime soon. | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
Firstly Liberators were nerfed, which greatly helps Protoss and Zerg. Carriers are op and so they are going to get slightly nerfed again, which is completely fine (and does help PvP  ). Hydralisk might get buffed, but hey they suck and people want them to be a tiny bit stronger.In terms of the widow mine, what you linked just stated that they weren't going to change the single impact damage (for obvious oracle defending reasons), but the reduced splash damage versus Protoss is still being tested, and that is actually the more important change for gateway unit strength.. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 04 2017 12:31 mGGrinehart wrote: Well I will assume you are talking about the overall patch rather than just the widow mine change. Firstly Liberators were nerfed, which greatly helps Protoss and Zerg. Carriers are op and so they are going to get slightly nerfed again, which is completely fine (and does help PvP ). Hydralisk might get buffed, but hey they suck and people want them to be a tiny bit stronger.In terms of the widow mine, what you linked just stated that they weren't going to change the single impact damage (for obvious oracle defending reasons), but the reduced splash damage versus Protoss is still being tested, and that is actually the more important change for gateway unit strength.. Liberators were nerfed and that was need A LONG time ago, however it's not going to do much to change the drastic disparity in PvT. Carriers aren't OP, first off their DPS is lower than both BC's, and Brood lords, and you have to pay to dps in the first place. Having to pay extra resources to do less dps than BC's do while also getting Yamato Cannon and the ability to warp anywhere without vision, or BL range, is just crap. It doesn't matter in PvP because Carriers are terrible in PvP, I mean if you're in silver they might work, otherwise there's a reason they're never used. Hydra's don't suck, hydra's are great, they trade off high damage for being squishy, but they're fixing that by making them less squishy. Just the same, protoss are losing against every race, and the solution is to nerf protoss more, and buff zerg. The nerf to single target means it can still one shot most protoss units for a super cheap unit that's set and forget. It negates protosses ability to harass at all, and is nearly guaranteed to always trade cost effectively. This was at least a step in the right direction. But I guess terran stays as the master race. | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
PvT and Carriers have been the "issues", here they are addressing that. On February 04 2017 11:58 Hyper1 wrote: So literally, this patch is now a nerf to protoss and buff to zerg, When quite clearly Terran has been nerfed and is looking to get another nerf. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On February 04 2017 11:58 Hyper1 wrote: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20753345206?page=1 So literally, this patch is now a nerf to protoss and buff to zerg, when protoss is drastically far behind everyone else. All because they don't want terran to need to defend against protoss harass at all. So looks like protoss won't be coming back to SC anytime soon. Theres threads for each community feedbacks and patches if you want to whine... | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
Well for your terran hearts to feel better, then liberator nerf only effects stalkers, it still 2 shots nearly everything else. Now it means that it can't trade cost effectively by it self against groups of stalkers 4+...Still trades cost effectively against 3 stalkers, but it means it can't kill all 3 of them before they can kill it. They still ensure that terran can easily harass protoss, and that protoss have no ability at all to harass terran. And I've watched most of the pro series games, and very few of the PvT had liberators being a deciding factor in the loss. I can't recall a single game where carriers actually beat a terran, so feel free to link all those matches. Don't worry, I'm sure terran will still be winning close to 70% of their games against protoss so the game can stay 'balanced'. Widow mines will still one shot nearly every protoss unit, which for 75/25, trades cost effectively against literally everything. Reducing splash damage from 75 to 60 is nice, the AOE still only kills probes, which seems fair. Literally the only thing that effects are that 2 widow mines can't kill all adepts/zealots. So they'll get a lot of value just killing the two targets they hit, but they won't get insta kill the entire army. They'll be left with 30 health now. Assuming the nerf goes through, which let's face it, it's not going to, unless terran is winning 99% of games against terran, you will still cry that you need more. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On February 05 2017 09:10 Hyper1 wrote: Didn't realize there were so many terran on this thread... Didn't realize this was the protoss tears thread. Fyi i play random and im pretty sure rinehart is protoss GM. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 05 2017 09:28 ArtyK wrote: Didn't realize this was the protoss tears thread. Fyi i play random and im pretty sure rinehart is protoss GM. Then go complain on the "Terran 70% win rate against toss isn't enough yet" thread. | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
2 shots -> 3 shots for Stalker, Zealot, Adept. 1 shot -> 2 shots for Sentry, High Templar. A splash damage nerf on widow mines is massive... Your arguments are completely irrational. Terran is literally getting nerfed and you are still complaining. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 05 2017 09:48 mGGrinehart wrote: Liberator nerf only effects stalkers??? 2 shots -> 3 shots for Stalker, Zealot, Adept. 1 shot -> 2 shots for Sentry, High Templar. Your arguments are completely irrational. Terran is literally getting nerfed and you are still complaining. Solid point, now I can better use zealots to kill liberators... Zealots are so much better against libs now... I get that you're super pro keeping that 30% PvT rate, but how do you even have fun knowing that you're nearly guaranteed to beat the few protoss that are actually still playing on ladder? | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
Personally I did the same and now have 60% PvT in KR GM. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On February 05 2017 09:53 mGGrinehart wrote: Maybe you should spend time improving rather than accusing people you disagree with that they are Terran players. If only I could improve enough to make protoss play the game again, and make pro players do better against terran, lol. But good point, terran units are cheaper they might as well 1-2 shot all protoss units as well. We need protoss to be even lower than 30%, it's not balanced unless terran win every game no matter what... | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On February 05 2017 09:55 Hyper1 wrote: If only I could improve enough to make protoss play the game again, and make pro players do better against terran, lol. But good point, terran units are cheaper they might as well 1-2 shot all protoss units as well. We need protoss to be even lower than 30%, it's not balanced unless terran win every game no matter what... i play zerg main/protoss offrace and i come to all 3 help threads for strategies and info on the game, i don't come here to see people take up a whole page balance whining everyone gets frustrated and thinks certain things are OP, including myself, but you're not accomplishing anything with your posts other than ruining the thread, you don't want advice and you don't want a positive attitude and frankly it's annoying | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
Seriously though, buttons. I will press them if necessary. | ||
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
Played a few games where my opponent has done a variation of the 1 base push that has caused people so much trouble i the past. However, they start by pushing with their initial 2 cyclone and a few scvs. When I do a stardard gate expand and chrono units (which is the normal way you stop the timing) I have an adept and stalker (maybe 2 depending on map size) and they can easily out dps this. Cyclones out range PO and it's too early for your Warp prism to be out for counter micro. While you don't die, I find I take damage e.g. lose the adept or lose the stalker. Given you're on such a tight margin to begin with, the second push is a different story again. Anyone have much luck? | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
Cyclones and PO have the same range, so as long as your mcore is in position you shouldn't have that much trouble. Losing an adept or a stalker isn't the end of the world, especially if you kill the cyclone(s) | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On February 06 2017 15:56 mGGrinehart wrote: Usually you chrono wg and get 2 quicker gates after robo so that you have a 3 unit warp in at 4 minutes. Cyclones and PO have the same range, so as long as your mcore is in position you shouldn't have that much trouble. Losing an adept or a stalker isn't the end of the world, especially if you kill the cyclone(s) PO has 7 range though | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
Just correcting his statement that cyclones outranged PO with another incorrect statement. | ||
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
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