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The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 52

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 50 51 52 53 54 75 Next
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
February 02 2017 19:21 GMT
#1021
Thanks everybody! Been doing a lot better in my last few games. Luckily everyone plays Terran on ladder, so I get to try this stuff immediately
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
February 04 2017 02:58 GMT
#1022
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20753345206?page=1

So literally, this patch is now a nerf to protoss and buff to zerg, when protoss is drastically far behind everyone else. All because they don't want terran to need to defend against protoss harass at all. So looks like protoss won't be coming back to SC anytime soon.
AusProbe
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia235 Posts
February 04 2017 03:31 GMT
#1023
Well I will assume you are talking about the overall patch rather than just the widow mine change.

Firstly Liberators were nerfed, which greatly helps Protoss and Zerg. Carriers are op and so they are going to get slightly nerfed again, which is completely fine (and does help PvP ). Hydralisk might get buffed, but hey they suck and people want them to be a tiny bit stronger.

In terms of the widow mine, what you linked just stated that they weren't going to change the single impact damage (for obvious oracle defending reasons), but the reduced splash damage versus Protoss is still being tested, and that is actually the more important change for gateway unit strength..
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
February 04 2017 04:43 GMT
#1024
On February 04 2017 12:31 mGGrinehart wrote:
Well I will assume you are talking about the overall patch rather than just the widow mine change.

Firstly Liberators were nerfed, which greatly helps Protoss and Zerg. Carriers are op and so they are going to get slightly nerfed again, which is completely fine (and does help PvP ). Hydralisk might get buffed, but hey they suck and people want them to be a tiny bit stronger.

In terms of the widow mine, what you linked just stated that they weren't going to change the single impact damage (for obvious oracle defending reasons), but the reduced splash damage versus Protoss is still being tested, and that is actually the more important change for gateway unit strength..


Liberators were nerfed and that was need A LONG time ago, however it's not going to do much to change the drastic disparity in PvT. Carriers aren't OP, first off their DPS is lower than both BC's, and Brood lords, and you have to pay to dps in the first place. Having to pay extra resources to do less dps than BC's do while also getting Yamato Cannon and the ability to warp anywhere without vision, or BL range, is just crap. It doesn't matter in PvP because Carriers are terrible in PvP, I mean if you're in silver they might work, otherwise there's a reason they're never used. Hydra's don't suck, hydra's are great, they trade off high damage for being squishy, but they're fixing that by making them less squishy.

Just the same, protoss are losing against every race, and the solution is to nerf protoss more, and buff zerg. The nerf to single target means it can still one shot most protoss units for a super cheap unit that's set and forget. It negates protosses ability to harass at all, and is nearly guaranteed to always trade cost effectively. This was at least a step in the right direction. But I guess terran stays as the master race.
AusProbe
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia235 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-04 06:52:41
February 04 2017 06:52 GMT
#1025
You argue that a liberator nerf increasing the shots required by 1 for pretty much everything, and then a possible splash reduction for the widow mine is going to do very little, but then a interceptor cost increase, still cheaper than previous, is the end of the world for Protoss.

PvT and Carriers have been the "issues", here they are addressing that.

On February 04 2017 11:58 Hyper1 wrote:
So literally, this patch is now a nerf to protoss and buff to zerg,


When quite clearly Terran has been nerfed and is looking to get another nerf.

ArtyK
Profile Joined June 2011
France3144 Posts
February 04 2017 12:18 GMT
#1026
On February 04 2017 11:58 Hyper1 wrote:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20753345206?page=1

So literally, this patch is now a nerf to protoss and buff to zerg, when protoss is drastically far behind everyone else. All because they don't want terran to need to defend against protoss harass at all. So looks like protoss won't be coming back to SC anytime soon.


Theres threads for each community feedbacks and patches if you want to whine...
Sup dood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ KiWiKaKi | SLush | uThermal | PtitDrogo | SortOf | Clem ~ "I told my mom she should vote for me in Nation Wars, she said 'I dunno, I kinda want Finland to win'" – Luolis ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_NScWV9h8k#t=1h01m
TL+ Member
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-05 00:40:25
February 05 2017 00:10 GMT
#1027
Didn't realize there were so many terran on this thread...

Well for your terran hearts to feel better, then liberator nerf only effects stalkers, it still 2 shots nearly everything else. Now it means that it can't trade cost effectively by it self against groups of stalkers 4+...Still trades cost effectively against 3 stalkers, but it means it can't kill all 3 of them before they can kill it.

They still ensure that terran can easily harass protoss, and that protoss have no ability at all to harass terran. And I've watched most of the pro series games, and very few of the PvT had liberators being a deciding factor in the loss. I can't recall a single game where carriers actually beat a terran, so feel free to link all those matches. Don't worry, I'm sure terran will still be winning close to 70% of their games against protoss so the game can stay 'balanced'.

Widow mines will still one shot nearly every protoss unit, which for 75/25, trades cost effectively against literally everything. Reducing splash damage from 75 to 60 is nice, the AOE still only kills probes, which seems fair. Literally the only thing that effects are that 2 widow mines can't kill all adepts/zealots. So they'll get a lot of value just killing the two targets they hit, but they won't get insta kill the entire army. They'll be left with 30 health now. Assuming the nerf goes through, which let's face it, it's not going to, unless terran is winning 99% of games against terran, you will still cry that you need more.
ArtyK
Profile Joined June 2011
France3144 Posts
February 05 2017 00:28 GMT
#1028
On February 05 2017 09:10 Hyper1 wrote:
Didn't realize there were so many terran on this thread...


Didn't realize this was the protoss tears thread.

Fyi i play random and im pretty sure rinehart is protoss GM.
Sup dood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ KiWiKaKi | SLush | uThermal | PtitDrogo | SortOf | Clem ~ "I told my mom she should vote for me in Nation Wars, she said 'I dunno, I kinda want Finland to win'" – Luolis ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_NScWV9h8k#t=1h01m
TL+ Member
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
February 05 2017 00:41 GMT
#1029
On February 05 2017 09:28 ArtyK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2017 09:10 Hyper1 wrote:
Didn't realize there were so many terran on this thread...


Didn't realize this was the protoss tears thread.

Fyi i play random and im pretty sure rinehart is protoss GM.


Then go complain on the "Terran 70% win rate against toss isn't enough yet" thread.
AusProbe
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia235 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-05 00:50:39
February 05 2017 00:48 GMT
#1030
Liberator nerf only effects stalkers???

2 shots -> 3 shots for Stalker, Zealot, Adept.

1 shot -> 2 shots for Sentry, High Templar.

A splash damage nerf on widow mines is massive...

Your arguments are completely irrational. Terran is literally getting nerfed and you are still complaining.
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
February 05 2017 00:51 GMT
#1031
On February 05 2017 09:48 mGGrinehart wrote:
Liberator nerf only effects stalkers???

2 shots -> 3 shots for Stalker, Zealot, Adept.

1 shot -> 2 shots for Sentry, High Templar.

Your arguments are completely irrational. Terran is literally getting nerfed and you are still complaining.


Solid point, now I can better use zealots to kill liberators... Zealots are so much better against libs now... I get that you're super pro keeping that 30% PvT rate, but how do you even have fun knowing that you're nearly guaranteed to beat the few protoss that are actually still playing on ladder?
AusProbe
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia235 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-05 00:55:36
February 05 2017 00:53 GMT
#1032
Maybe you should spend time improving rather than accusing people you disagree with that they are Terran players.

Personally I did the same and now have 60% PvT in KR GM.
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
February 05 2017 00:55 GMT
#1033
On February 05 2017 09:53 mGGrinehart wrote:
Maybe you should spend time improving rather than accusing people you disagree with that they are Terran players.



If only I could improve enough to make protoss play the game again, and make pro players do better against terran, lol. But good point, terran units are cheaper they might as well 1-2 shot all protoss units as well. We need protoss to be even lower than 30%, it's not balanced unless terran win every game no matter what...
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
February 05 2017 15:52 GMT
#1034
On February 05 2017 09:55 Hyper1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2017 09:53 mGGrinehart wrote:
Maybe you should spend time improving rather than accusing people you disagree with that they are Terran players.



If only I could improve enough to make protoss play the game again, and make pro players do better against terran, lol. But good point, terran units are cheaper they might as well 1-2 shot all protoss units as well. We need protoss to be even lower than 30%, it's not balanced unless terran win every game no matter what...

i play zerg main/protoss offrace and i come to all 3 help threads for strategies and info on the game, i don't come here to see people take up a whole page balance whining

everyone gets frustrated and thinks certain things are OP, including myself, but you're not accomplishing anything with your posts other than ruining the thread, you don't want advice and you don't want a positive attitude and frankly it's annoying
TL+ Member
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-05 17:27:17
February 05 2017 17:26 GMT
#1035
Alright, calm down. This is not the place to throw insults around. Especially not the place to call someone awful things like "Terran".

Seriously though, buttons. I will press them if necessary.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Dracover
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia177 Posts
February 06 2017 04:18 GMT
#1036
So back to the topic of strategy.

Played a few games where my opponent has done a variation of the 1 base push that has caused people so much trouble i the past.

However, they start by pushing with their initial 2 cyclone and a few scvs. When I do a stardard gate expand and chrono units (which is the normal way you stop the timing) I have an adept and stalker (maybe 2 depending on map size) and they can easily out dps this. Cyclones out range PO and it's too early for your Warp prism to be out for counter micro. While you don't die, I find I take damage e.g. lose the adept or lose the stalker. Given you're on such a tight margin to begin with, the second push is a different story again.

Anyone have much luck?
Don't stop
AusProbe
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia235 Posts
February 06 2017 06:56 GMT
#1037
Usually you chrono wg and get 2 quicker gates after robo so that you have a 3 unit warp in at 4 minutes.

Cyclones and PO have the same range, so as long as your mcore is in position you shouldn't have that much trouble. Losing an adept or a stalker isn't the end of the world, especially if you kill the cyclone(s)
ArtyK
Profile Joined June 2011
France3144 Posts
February 06 2017 10:08 GMT
#1038
On February 06 2017 15:56 mGGrinehart wrote:
Usually you chrono wg and get 2 quicker gates after robo so that you have a 3 unit warp in at 4 minutes.

Cyclones and PO have the same range, so as long as your mcore is in position you shouldn't have that much trouble. Losing an adept or a stalker isn't the end of the world, especially if you kill the cyclone(s)


PO has 7 range though
Sup dood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ KiWiKaKi | SLush | uThermal | PtitDrogo | SortOf | Clem ~ "I told my mom she should vote for me in Nation Wars, she said 'I dunno, I kinda want Finland to win'" – Luolis ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_NScWV9h8k#t=1h01m
TL+ Member
AusProbe
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia235 Posts
February 06 2017 22:53 GMT
#1039
Even better then

Just correcting his statement that cyclones outranged PO with another incorrect statement.
Dracover
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia177 Posts
February 07 2017 08:43 GMT
#1040
Huh I swear everytime it's getting out ranged....anyway will look into this
Don't stop
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