EPT[G] TvP Aggresive mech - Page 2
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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TheGloob
97 Posts
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=296881#/replay_overview | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
at 6:40 you've dealt a lot of damage, you also spotted 3gate so chances are hes going to try and all-in you, like he did. knowing the previous you should've played more safely, added 2nd gas and go up to 3fact producing 2tanks and 2 hells at a time. at 7minutes you lose 2 hellions that were rallied into your opponents base 8:20 you couldve lifted the factory and made a tank instead of a marauder, mass repairing it could've helped clear the stalkers. | ||
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TheGloob
97 Posts
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
On July 10 2014 23:30 SatedSC2 wrote: I don't mind. I've been saying for ages that Terrans should make more Hellions. There was a time when pro Terrans would go proxy Factory/Starport -> 4 Hellion drop on maps like Daybreak and it was stupidly effective, but then they seemed to stop doing it and I could never understand why. Hellions do so much damage so quickly that it seems far more effective than other forms of early harassment. You can run Probes away from a Mine drop, but not from a Hellion drop. Yeah, well as iEchoic said, "there is a unit that you can load 2 of them in a medivac and they kill entire mineral lines". Blue-flame hellions make Brood-War reaver drops look like a joke. | ||
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SirPinky
United States525 Posts
If your guide is meant for low diamond and below then it works well. But you need APM to constantly harass your opponent. This means typically opening something like WM drop/Helbat drop/Banshee/Helion run-by etc to keep your opponents economy in check. You do NOT want your opponent to reach late game with a Tempest/Carrier/HT ball; therefore, this requires constant harass while macroing at home. An extreme example of this is the mass helion Dayshi build versus Grubby. EDIT: BTW I used to play the Dayshi style, but the more I played it, the less consistent I found the build. I think it is a good build for perhaps a BO5 tournament play to throw your opponent off, but for consistency winning on ladder, I found early immortal/stalker pokes were too detrimental to my economy. And, even with one or two tanks, immortals can target and take them out. | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On July 11 2014 07:01 TheGloob wrote: Once I identified 3 gate/no expansion should I have cancelled my CC? I considered doing it but thought I could hold :/ Cancelling the CC isn't that good a move untill you can confirm hes fully all-in, which was in your case when he showed up at your natural ramp with a bunch of stalkers. What I think cost you the game is the late 2nd gas and no tank production, ideally you want to get the 2nd gas asap after expanding so you have gas ready when you need it. On July 11 2014 09:47 SirPinky wrote: Thank you for the post. I'm a former GM and play mech against all three races. One criticism I have is your opening paragraph describing why to go mech: In this analysis you compare mech to "low apm" and more of a toss "1a" type of style. This is a common misconception. The reason for going mech, in my opinion, is to use positional skill and map awareness to outclass your opponent. Mech is a very unforgiving type of style, but I also find it very fun too. Unlike bio, if you are caught out of position once, you can easily lose the game. If you look at common mech players: Strelok, HTOMario, Avilo, even Major (who has been known to mech versus Protoss on occassion) all have over 160 APM while playing. The only exception to this is GoOdy who, if you look at his replays, has low APM (110-120) but very high EPM, similar to other Progamers. If your guide is meant for low diamond and below then it works well. But you need APM to constantly harass your opponent. This means typically opening something like WM drop/Helbat drop/Banshee/Helion run-by etc to keep your opponents economy in check. You do NOT want your opponent to reach late game with a Tempest/Carrier/HT ball; therefore, this requires constant harass while macroing at home. An extreme example of this is the mass helion Dayshi build versus Grubby. EDIT: BTW I used to play the Dayshi style, but the more I played it, the less consistent I found the build. I think it is a good build for perhaps a BO5 tournament play to throw your opponent off, but for consistency winning on ladder, I found early immortal/stalker pokes were too detrimental to my economy. And, even with one or two tanks, immortals can target and take them out. As anything in starcraft nothing is really low apm, it's only relative to bio styles and all the micro bio has to do during fights where mech only has to worry about position and focus fire. 1a was more part of the image, 1a doesn't split and siege up tanks =p I'd say the guide is relevant anywhere from diamond to top foreign level play, aggresive mech requires as you mentioned very good sense of whats going on and anticipation skills so theres definitely a minimum level required for this to be playable. As for the consistency with this build, it's a lot harder when your opponent can counter anticipate moves and fight you head on in a battle of tech switches, surprise factor definitely helps this style, but doesn't have to make this build invalid. Personally I would still do better using this build 5 times in a row than switching it up with bio as I'm far more experienced in this style relative to bio, along with that I'm rather slow on reaction so always eat to much damage from storms for my bio to be viable. | ||
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Slashiepie
107 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On July 11 2014 19:22 Slashiepie wrote: I don't understand.. how are you not dying to Oracle and Stalkers? Hellions deals with early stalkers via over agressivity (basically, if he attacks you with stalkers, nothing can stop you from burning his probes, and you'll do so faster than him) Oracles are trickier with this kind of opening, the ideal thing being having mines ready... | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10357 Posts
If you decided not to wall with depots but keep the depots at your mineral line, you can just kill all his probes and then chase his stalker while buying time for WMs/marines For oracles, you'll have WMs. If you decide to ebay block his natural you can make a turret. If you get a successful ebay block he's in a really really bad spot. | ||
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TwiggyWan
France332 Posts
When you scout some sort of gateway allin, did you try spamming mines against it with your reactored factory? I dont really think you'd have time to wait for your 2 other factories to complete AND produce tanks by the time it hits :/ When i do mech openings factories 2 and 3 are usually ready somewhere around 9 min.. | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
without eco a gateway all in burns out fast and all you have to do is stretch time a bit. as for mines, they're really good vs a no tech gateway all in, the problem is they take quite some time to build and are hit or miss. my preferred way of delaying until I have tanks is to LINE EM UP by blocking them off with an scv pull at your ramp and then making use of hellion splash. I'll probably expand on gateway all in and oracles later, though I think what most really struggle with is inexperience with the build and smoothness and fast responses. | ||
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TheGloob
97 Posts
 good times | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
also updated the readability a bit. | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
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NinjaDuckBob
177 Posts
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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JanLui
France50 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/408107-streloks-probe-roasting-into-mech-tvp#1  | ||
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this is going in the OP if you don't mind
