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[d] Strelok's probe roasting into mech tvp

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
JanLui
Profile Joined November 2010
France50 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 14:42:06
April 16 2013 18:08 GMT
#1
Hello dear TL Terran players!

I rewrited this post, it has always been a gas fist reactor hellions vs Protoss, but now that Day[9] has popularised the Terran Hellbat-Mech this opening makes even more sense.

BASIC IDEA : We will do the almost fastest hellions possible, into 1/1/1. It is gas first reactor hellion opening, We will produce 4 hellion and put pressure on probes while building a starport.
Then we produce 4 mines, and 1 medivac/viking depend on scouting. Eventually CC @ 6:05 minute mark.
StimmedProbe's idea rules : a fast reactored factory to get very quick hellions and mass them to rost every probes! This makes even more sense with the new widow mine being produced by the same building > synergie !!

On April 17 2013 04:51 mau5mat wrote:
I've seen MKP do a gas first react hellion drop with a proxy starport vP recently.

On April 17 2013 05:17 iAmJeffReY wrote:
I got a slew of replays going gas first hellions vs protoss and winning in under 10 minutes. It's my go to on whirlwind, and newkirk, and even daybreak.


EDIT and now displayed by Day[9] on his Daily #575 - Terran Hellbat-Mech vs Protoss P2
see here !
LOOK IT'S WORKING AT HIGH LEVEL ! You should watch this video if you like to play mech !


Aim to PUSH OUT with 2 first hellion @ 4:55 minute mark if the build is done properly. Checking proxy location with the 2 first hellions and sprinting to the Protoss mineral line as soon as they are 4, @ the 5:25 minute mark.
You really may get a quick win by burning every probes, or at least to gain a decisive economic lead.
This pressure occurs at an uncommon timing : go out check proxy with 2 first hllion and push with 4 hellion


Build order

Use close mineral trick to maximise your income.
10 depot at ramp to keep an eye on entrance
11 gas
13 rax (near CC cause its the key moment putting 3 scv on gas AND launching rax at the same second, benchmark @2:00 launch 14th scv : not cutting )
@3:05 = 17 food > FACTORY + REACTOR ASAP + OC
scv build two depot in a row (finishing wall straightaway)
@4:25 it's already time to mule & swap factory and produce 4 x hellions then mines
@4:40 build starport (=when you can afford) >>> to either defend oracle with viking or being more offensive with a medivac
build a CC @ 6:05 then maybe a third CC as strelok does ...


PROs:
bigger maps are OK since P is going to expand more frequently and its harder to scout you, and great travel distance is good for your hellions.
this sets you up nicely for the late game playing mech with tanks and battle hellions the Strelok way :D

CONs :
?



NEW REPLAYS !!! :
http://drop.sc/330897 destroying blink allin before this can actually do anything
http://drop.sc/330896


I changed the title removing my own name cause I didn't create anything compared to high skilled players like Strelok, and deleting the word "cheese", cause it is not a cheese anymore, just an early aggression that can win you right out the game. It's not a guide because I don't have the level to be legitime at that (platinum) I just want to promote this style !

NOW I NEED YOU, GOOD OLD MASTER OR GM guys <3 <3 <3 try this out at good level, test it and say if you are also getting free wins, i'm pretty sure this can work very well against the current metagame : protoss opening with stalker > MSC. I wish someone the highest level improve this BO and optmize the transition =) and share replays!!! edit done by Strelok and Day[9] <3 <3 <3


Old replays as I was still experimenting with bio hellion all in... directly inspired from StimmedProbe's cheese >>> one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281115
+ Show Spoiler +

well executed refined 2fact 1rax push >>> http://drop.sc/324532 (vs 1g robo FE)
against 4gate DTs > REPLAY http://drop.sc/324465
against 1g starport into 3g starport phoenix expand > REPLAY http://drop.sc/324467 (replay with only 1 facto and more raxes)
against 1g expand > REPLAYs http://drop.sc/324466 http://drop.sc/324468 http://drop.sc/324468
I lost to nexus first into pylon forge 2gate wall off with photons > REPLAY http://drop.sc/324464
Edit : just lost vs 1g FE toss, he got 2 sentries out before MsC : http://drop.sc/324626



Love from France \o/
Never Die Easy. http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/312602/JanLui
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
April 16 2013 19:36 GMT
#2
while i like the idea behind it, this build has two incredible big problems.
The gas first does not only completly reveal your plans, making it incredible easy for the protoss to react to this,
but also lets you be very weak vs the common Stalker/MsC poke.
In addition, the MsC is pretty much a counter to any kind of one base all-inn from terran.
I have a hard time to belive that this could work against a decent toss player who doesnt
play completly greedy.
TL+ Member
Genome852
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States979 Posts
April 16 2013 19:39 GMT
#3
Isn't this just gas first fast fact into reactor hellions?

Easily defended even before mothership core was in the game, and you're not going to kill any probes if he sees it coming and just keeps his probes mining in his main until it's held off.
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
April 16 2013 19:51 GMT
#4
I've seen MKP do a gas first react hellion drop with a proxy starport vP recently.
JanLui
Profile Joined November 2010
France50 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 14:48:52
April 16 2013 20:17 GMT
#5
On April 17 2013 04:36 Paljas wrote:
while i like the idea behind it, this build has two incredible big problems.
The gas first does not only completly reveal your plans, making it incredible easy for the protoss to react to this,
but also lets you be very weak vs the common Stalker/MsC poke.


On the contrary, I feel very strong when I burn his probes while his Stalker/MsC are hitting my wall and 2x mines are being produced to defend... :D

The stalker MsC poke is easy to repell (see replay in OP I dont remember which one) as you runby Stalker/MsC and go rost probes :D

Never Die Easy. http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/312602/JanLui
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 20:23:43
April 16 2013 20:17 GMT
#6
I got a slew of replays going gas first hellions vs protoss and winning in under 10 minutes. It's my go to on whirlwind, and newkirk, and even daybreak.

I go into bio and FE and go for a marine heavy stim timing with scvs and hellions. If they go collsai, I get 2 port vikings and pull scvs to finish the all in.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 21:10:36
April 16 2013 21:08 GMT
#7
On April 17 2013 05:17 JanLui wrote:
the gas 1st ist not revealing everything : why may the T not go for mine expo ?

Because gas first is a 100% sign for a factory pressure build. You dont go gas first into mine expo.

edit :
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 04:51 mau5mat wrote:
I've seen MKP do a gas first react hellion drop with a proxy starport vP recently.

ok thank you Sir <3 <3 <3


Thats a differnt build than the one from your OP.

On April 17 2013 05:17 iAmJeffReY wrote:
I got a slew of replays going gas first hellions vs protoss and winning in under 10 minutes. It's my go to on whirlwind, and newkirk, and even daybreak.

I go into bio and FE and go for a marine heavy stim timing with scvs and hellions. If they go collsai, I get 2 port vikings and pull scvs to finish the all in.


Thats is very different too. Reactor hellion play is very potent vs Toss,
transitioning into a weird one base bio-hellion all in is not.
TL+ Member
JanLui
Profile Joined November 2010
France50 Posts
May 05 2013 14:50 GMT
#8
On April 17 2013 06:08 Paljas wrote: Reactor hellion play is very potent vs Toss,
transitioning into a weird one base bio-hellion all in is not.


Indeed.
OP edited !
Never Die Easy. http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/312602/JanLui
Jeece712
Profile Joined August 2012
France8 Posts
May 05 2013 15:34 GMT
#9
I played gas 1st fast hellion build in TvP few months ago, and it recquires high level of skill to not die early.

First of all, a Protoss who scout will put a pylon to avoid you switching the buiilding ( to have the reactor on factory ).
2nd : If the Protoss attacks with 1 zealot + 1 Stalker or later with 2 Stalker + 1 MSC, it is really hard to not die to this.
3rd : Against a proxy stargate, you're pretty dead
4th : If the Protoss holds all your attack properly ( with 2 Gate-Robo Expand : if he scouts he will know you're going fast hellion or/and banshee, he jus can put 1 photon/mineral line and avoid both hellions and mines drop ), you will die to any counter attack
JanLui
Profile Joined November 2010
France50 Posts
May 05 2013 16:20 GMT
#10
1- Indeed, being aware of that threatening pylon block is important. you may chase his probe with a scv. ok its delaying a few seconds the switch.

2nd and 4th - http://drop.sc/330934 vs zealot and 2stalkers. He went for gate cyber gate robo gate expand, he had no time/money to get photons.... At his point I had already burned all his probes. (look how awful is my macro, I dont even have any multitask skills! )

3- As starport is launched@4:45 min mark, what's the problem, we should be fine to defende early oracle with viking don't you think?


burn probes burn probes burn probes is all what you want. oO
Never Die Easy. http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/312602/JanLui
Rockafella
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom291 Posts
May 05 2013 16:23 GMT
#11
On April 17 2013 03:08 JanLui wrote:
Hello dear TL Terran players!

I rewrited this post, it has always been a gas fist reactor hellions vs Protoss, but now that Day[9] has popularised the Terran Hellbat-Mech this opening makes even more sense.

BASIC IDEA : We will do the almost fastest hellions possible, into 1/1/1. It is gas first reactor hellion opening, We will produce 4 hellion and put pressure on probes while building a starport.
Then we produce 4 mines, and 1 medivac/viking depend on scouting. Eventually CC @ 6:05 minute mark.
StimmedProbe's idea rules : a fast reactored factory to get very quick hellions and mass them to rost every probes! This makes even more sense with the new widow mine being produced by the same building > synergie !!

Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 04:51 mau5mat wrote:
I've seen MKP do a gas first react hellion drop with a proxy starport vP recently.

Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 05:17 iAmJeffReY wrote:
I got a slew of replays going gas first hellions vs protoss and winning in under 10 minutes. It's my go to on whirlwind, and newkirk, and even daybreak.


EDIT and now displayed by Day[9] on his Daily #575 - Terran Hellbat-Mech vs Protoss P2
see here !
LOOK IT'S WORKING AT HIGH LEVEL ! You should watch this video if you like to play mech !


Aim to PUSH OUT with 2 first hellion @ 4:55 minute mark if the build is done properly. Checking proxy location with the 2 first hellions and sprinting to the Protoss mineral line as soon as they are 4, @ the 5:25 minute mark.
You really may get a quick win by burning every probes, or at least to gain a decisive economic lead.
This pressure occurs at an uncommon timing : go out check proxy with 2 first hllion and push with 4 hellion


Build order

Use close mineral trick to maximise your income.
10 depot at ramp to keep an eye on entrance
11 gas
13 rax (near CC cause its the key moment putting 3 scv on gas AND launching rax at the same second, benchmark @2:00 launch 14th scv : not cutting )
@3:05 = 17 food > FACTORY + REACTOR ASAP + OC
scv build two depot in a row (finishing wall straightaway)
@4:25 it's already time to mule & swap factory and produce 4 x hellions then mines
@4:40 build starport (=when you can afford) >>> to either defend oracle with viking or being more offensive with a medivac
build a CC @ 6:05 then maybe a third CC as strelok does ...


PROs:
bigger maps are OK since P is going to expand more frequently and its harder to scout you, and great travel distance is good for your hellions.
this sets you up nicely for the late game playing mech with tanks and battle hellions the Strelok way :D

CONs :
?



NEW REPLAYS !!! :
http://drop.sc/330897 destroying blink allin before this can actually do anything
http://drop.sc/330896


I changed the title removing my own name cause I didn't create anything compared to high skilled players like Strelok, and deleting the word "cheese", cause it is not a cheese anymore, just an early aggression that can win you right out the game. It's not a guide because I don't have the level to be legitime at that (platinum) I just want to promote this style !

NOW I NEED YOU, GOOD OLD MASTER OR GM guys <3 <3 <3 try this out at good level, test it and say if you are also getting free wins, i'm pretty sure this can work very well against the current metagame : protoss opening with stalker > MSC. I wish someone the highest level improve this BO and optmize the transition =) and share replays!!! edit done by Strelok and Day[9] <3 <3 <3


Old replays as I was still experimenting with bio hellion all in... directly inspired from StimmedProbe's cheese >>> one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281115
+ Show Spoiler +

well executed refined 2fact 1rax push >>> http://drop.sc/324532 (vs 1g robo FE)
against 4gate DTs > REPLAY http://drop.sc/324465
against 1g starport into 3g starport phoenix expand > REPLAY http://drop.sc/324467 (replay with only 1 facto and more raxes)
against 1g expand > REPLAYs http://drop.sc/324466 http://drop.sc/324468 http://drop.sc/324468
I lost to nexus first into pylon forge 2gate wall off with photons > REPLAY http://drop.sc/324464
Edit : just lost vs 1g FE toss, he got 2 sentries out before MsC : http://drop.sc/324626



Love from France \o/


Interesting build but if I see what you're doing with a scouting probe you're absolutely dead. xD
Jeece712
Profile Joined August 2012
France8 Posts
May 05 2013 16:24 GMT
#12
" 1- Indeed, being aware of that threatening pylon block is important. you may chase his probe with a scv. ok its delaying a few seconds the switch. "

When you lift your barrack, he can build a pylon where the reactor is, and avoid you to use it.
axgxFighter
Profile Joined May 2013
24 Posts
May 08 2013 10:43 GMT
#13
--- Nuked ---
OmegaKnetus
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany431 Posts
May 08 2013 11:09 GMT
#14
On May 06 2013 01:24 Jeece712 wrote:
" 1- Indeed, being aware of that threatening pylon block is important. you may chase his probe with a scv. ok its delaying a few seconds the switch. "

When you lift your barrack, he can build a pylon where the reactor is, and avoid you to use it.



Even though I think this build has glaring weaknesses, The pylon block is not one of them: As seen in Streloks replays, he starts producing a marine before the reactor, only cancelling it if no probe reaches the base before the depot wallin is completed. So you actually can't pylon block the factory.

Robo allins are another story though and the oracle timing of 6 minutes and something that day9 mentioned in the daily is false: A 5:10 oracle will cause loads of problems if you don't build an engineering bay in time.
Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-08 11:23:47
May 08 2013 11:18 GMT
#15
Go and check the DAy 9 TvP Hellbat from Strelok.This BO is there as other many early aggro BO to keep the P home.You can be pretty safe and will forcé the P go home if he is poking with MS core and stalkers.Wall your ramp and repair with scvs pumping marines and widow mines.He will lose every single probe home.

Proxy stargates are without Nexus in natural,so you can try build an ebay in his natural,finish it and make a turret even before 4 mins,so you are pretty safe against any Oracle timings
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