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Hordeon
Lithuania72 Posts
So, what I used to use and still use: Backspace inject (But I always thought, that it's really bad and gimmicky). [1-3] for Units. [4] All Hatcheries. [5] All Queens. [The Rest] None. [F1] Cam. Location 1. [F2] Cam. Location 2. [F3] Cam. Location 3. [F4] Cam. Location 4. This setup actually starts to feel really uncomfortable at higher levels of play, so please advice some good setups, something similar to what the best korean zergs use. Thanks. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
You can also skip the bases where no queens are easilly or skip hidden bases for example! Backspace is indeed gimmicky and really easilly thrown off. | ||
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Hordeon
Lithuania72 Posts
On May 23 2014 04:29 SC2Toastie wrote: You've got an excellent setup prepared already. Put your camera locations over the hatches (base 1=F1), select queens, shift+V(inject) F1 click F2 click etc You can also skip the bases where no queens are easilly or skip hidden bases for example! Backspace is indeed gimmicky and really easilly thrown off. This is exactly what I don't like. Also according to korean zerg pros my setup is terrible. Also going through F1-F4 location keys takes too much time, it is inefficient. I don't know how I could improve my hotkey setup, that's why I'm asking people for ideas. Don't just post that I should use my current hotkeyset, I've already said that I don't like it, it's uncomfortable. Yes, it's a macro zerg setup, but you cannot micro efficiently with it. I need a mix inbetween macro-micro zerg hotkey setup. Shift+V injection is less gimmicky, but can also throw off a lot of important plays, imagine you getting pressured, while Shifting injects and then accidentally shifting something horribly bad? But thanks anyway for your message, I may try this inj. method again. | ||
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ECA.BruTATroN
United States282 Posts
I also used the backspace method. Hotkeying all my queens and holding down shift v spacebar and clicking the middle of my screen. Its the fastest way but it also makes the queens act like idiots and will send them different ways I would also like to know any other methds | ||
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Hordeon
Lithuania72 Posts
I also used the backspace method. Hotkeying all my queens and holding down shift v spacebar and clicking the middle of my screen. Its the fastest way but it also makes the queens act like idiots and will send them different ways This is exactly why it doesn't fit high level play. This is one of the reasons why I hate it and why I am finally absolutely fed up with it. Hm, your injection method seems kinda weird. Thank's for reply, but I don't like it (Your method). As you said - it's really slow. | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
not that i'm saying my method is superior or anything, if you can do it faster with accuracy that's awesome, but it's not like you have to use a certain method in order to be good. honestly fancy hotkey setups and macro methods are kinda overrated in my opinion, macro is more mental than physical | ||
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Hordeon
Lithuania72 Posts
On May 23 2014 05:10 Waise wrote: i personally just use screen hotkeys + manually select queens, no hotkey for my injecting queens. it might not be the fastest method, but i've seen korean pros do the same. it all comes down to your comfort level and how accurate you are with your APM. it's a lot more important to remember to hit your cycles than to do 4-5 injects in .5 seconds instead of 2 seconds or whatever not that i'm saying my method is superior or anything, if you can do it faster with accuracy that's awesome, but it's not like you have to use a certain method in order to be good. honestly fancy hotkey setups and macro methods are kinda overrated in my opinion, macro is more mental than physical Sorry, but I have to disagree (with the part that i quotebolded). If you have ever played at at least semi-high level (mid-master+), you probably would not think so. Actually having proper hotkeys setup determines your mechanical skillcap (the roof). Only Stephano was able to pull off and be consistent with his hotkeys. He's a good example that you can play SC2 even with bad hotkeys and any inj. method whatsoever, but read my message please, I'm not asking if i can pull it off or not, I'm asking for advice how to change it. I don't want to stick to it, it absolutely sucks at my level of play, believe me. It limits my potential, It's horrible, I want to stay away from it, learn new, better, aka korean-pro hotkey layout. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
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surreal1600
United States33 Posts
I want to stay away from it, learn new, better, aka korean-pro hotkey layout. All the replays from Code S and Code A can be downloaded here at WCS Battle.net. Thats over 400 replays from the GSL alone. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 23 2014 05:20 Hordeon wrote: Sorry, but I have to disagree (with the part that i quotebolded). If you have ever played at at least semi-high level (mid-master+), you probably would not think so. Actually having proper hotkeys setup determines your mechanical skillcap (the roof). Only Stephano was able to pull off and be consistent with his hotkeys. He's a good example that you can play SC2 even with bad hotkeys and any inj. method whatsoever, but read my message please, I'm not asking if i can pull it off or not, I'm asking for advice how to change it. I don't want to stick to it, it absolutely sucks at my level of play, believe me. It limits my potential, It's horrible, I want to stay away from it, learn new, better, aka korean-pro hotkey layout. I knew someone in masters who never used hotkeys. I, myself, play Zerg with very few hotkeys. Granted, you'll always go faster with less effort with hotkey speed and accuracy, but it's not unusual to see someone compensating for their lack of hotkeys with better mouse speed and precision instead. Jaedong uses camera location hotkeys. So does Ret and most other Zerg players I know of. The OLD (old old) method was to set 5-8 for your inject queens, and IdrA used that until he retired. That method has some serious problems when your queens start getting displaced. The backspace method works fine, but you have to slow it down and pay attention to avoid any problems (and it still ends up being just as fast as camera hotkeys in a lot of cases. So, all in all, I still recommend doing camera location hotkeys as they are the most consistent and solid way to manage your injects. You can also put all of your queens on a hotkey and pull them to defend if necessary without messing up your setup. If you need to send them back to injecting, just do the camera location method with all of them selected and they'll go home  . | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On May 23 2014 04:33 Hordeon wrote: This is exactly what I don't like. Also according to korean zerg pros my setup is terrible. Also going through F1-F4 location keys takes too much time, it is inefficient. I don't know how I could improve my hotkey setup, that's why I'm asking people for ideas. Don't just post that I should use my current hotkeyset, I've already said that I don't like it, it's uncomfortable. Yes, it's a macro zerg setup, but you cannot micro efficiently with it. I need a mix inbetween macro-micro zerg hotkey setup. Shift+V injection is less gimmicky, but can also throw off a lot of important plays, imagine you getting pressured, while Shifting injects and then accidentally shifting something horribly bad? But thanks anyway for your message, I may try this inj. method again. That's how Jaedong injects, it feels awkward and slow because you're bad at it. | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
On May 23 2014 05:20 Hordeon wrote: Sorry, but I have to disagree (with the part that i quotebolded). If you have ever played at at least semi-high level (mid-master+), you probably would not think so. Actually having proper hotkeys setup determines your mechanical skillcap (the roof). Only Stephano was able to pull off and be consistent with his hotkeys. He's a good example that you can play SC2 even with bad hotkeys and any inj. method whatsoever, but read my message please, I'm not asking if i can pull it off or not, I'm asking for advice how to change it. I don't want to stick to it, it absolutely sucks at my level of play, believe me. It limits my potential, It's horrible, I want to stay away from it, learn new, better, aka korean-pro hotkey layout. i'm not saying this to be a dick, dude, but i think you're hallucinating that a hotkey setup is what you need because then you can tell yourself your quality of play is "already there" and all you need is to change buttons around. i'm not saying i'm better than you or trying to demean your skill, but i think at any level of play the best way to improve is to study the game and work on your fundamentals. the difference between you and jaedong isn't hotkeys. it's clear from your posts that you WANT there to be a "one true method" because what you want is a gimmick that will increase your winrate with no effort on your part other than changing bindings or control groups. if you want to read others' posts about alternate styles and experiment with new methods, i'm in no way trying to discourage you. if you're uncomfortable, you're uncomfortable, and perhaps you will benefit from a change. but i completely disagree with your assertion that you have to be a stephanolike playboy prodigy in order to play at the highest level with standard layouts. you just have to have talent. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
Work winners for me in silver. :o) Glgl! | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
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Hordeon
Lithuania72 Posts
On May 23 2014 17:13 Anacreor wrote: I think you should check out The Core hotkey layout by Jakatak, and just force yourself to use that. He put a lot of effort into finding the minimum travel distance for your fingers, optimal hotkey bindings, etc. No need to reinvent the wheel, as to say. I have tried TheCore and I couldn't get used to it in months. I'm standard RTS'es gamer, including SC:BW, other old games. I'm so used to oldschool A-move + hotkeys setup, that any grid layouts are insanely bad for me. I have a really big hand, I feel like TheCore was designed for absolute small handers, because all the hotkeys in the core are so close together and uncomfy all. (Even theCore version designed for large hand seemed weird for me, still buttons felt too close together). Also i'm not saying this to be a dick, dude, but i think you're hallucinating that a hotkey setup is what you need because then you can tell yourself your quality of play is "already there" and all you need is to change buttons around. i'm not saying i'm better than you or trying to demean your skill, but i think at any level of play the best way to improve is to study the game and work on your fundamentals. the difference between you and jaedong isn't hotkeys. it's clear from your posts that you WANT there to be a "one true method" because what you want is a gimmick that will increase your winrate with no effort on your part other than changing bindings or control groups. I know that you don't say this to be a dick, me neither, I am free to disagree and state my opinion. Also I don't think that the only problem for my play is hotkeys. I never said that I want better hotkeys in order to reach GM, I don't expect that. The only thing I want is to have more control and comfort using my hotkeys. Also about Shift+Camera F1-F4 injection method, I don't know, I could use it, but it would be problematic since i am used to broodwar camera binding which is Shift+F-key for me. Also, enough on injection method, what about hotkeys? (Not about system, please don't mention Jakataks theCore anymore, I feel it's not for me, I would never use theCore). | ||
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Hordeon
Lithuania72 Posts
first mission - beat very easy computer - done Hooray! It required a lot of switching back to hotkeys menu :Dgame1: http://drop.sc/381294 game2: http://drop.sc/381295 game3: http://drop.sc/381296 I learned theCore hotkey, but, phew... My head hurts :D (headache) I hope than in the longrun i'll become player with good mechanics. | ||
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mGGNoRe
Australia124 Posts
My set up is: 1 - 3: Army 4: All Hatcheries Q: Main Hatchery W: Utility (changes depending on purpose, can be for micro or just temporarily checking when upgrades are done). F1 - F8: Camera Location hotkeys for injecting. The benefit of this system is you can either check when to inject by just hitting '4' and seeing when you have a tonne of larvae pop (there is a counter at the bottom of each hatch) or just by hitting 'Q' and looking at the timer. Hope this helps you and welcome back. | ||
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ZedraC
South Africa109 Posts
I have played with standard, grid, theCore and currently I am trying Fleet Keys. From these I would suggest you either use fleet or theCore. The biggest reason is because you can access all control groups and camera location a lot easier, bringing me to my next few points: These hotkey setups will inevitable change your thinking about your hotkey/camera-location setup and only once you experimented you might find the answer to your question for yourself. The way fleet and theCore suggest you use it is fine, but you can customize these to suite you as well, which is an added bonus. My biggest problem playing zerg is also the inject method, there is not one that I am entirely happy with. By now I am sure you searched youtube and teamliquid for inject methods, so i am not going to link those here, you can find them easily if you want to. Base camera inject + Show Spoiler + Base camera inject seriously annoys the living crap out of me because of one misclick or one queen not on enough energy when injecting, then the queens go %%^&ing haywire all over the map and you spend a lot of time trying to fix it again if you did not catch it quickly enough. After trying other inject methods for a while (see below mentioned methods), I recently went back to base camera inject with fleet keys. Still gimmicky (obviously), however better than before. During games I still concentrate a lot on making sure the queens remain where they are supposed to be, with time it is getting better. At the moment what I try to do is having at least x+1 queens where x is 1 hatch (this excludes my creep queens). This helps, but at high level play I think not the proper solution. Its working for me for now. Late game, if you end up with 6 or more bases, then I like to have a patch where the macro hatches are clustered together then I concentrate on injecting in that location mostly. (Not sure if that makes proper sense) Having queens in separate control groups + Show Spoiler + For a long time, while using theCore I used three to four injection queens and saved each one on a different control group(CG), thus double tapping the the CG inject, double tapping the the next CG inject, double tapping the the next CG inject. Now obviously that takes almost as long as it took me to type that last, but this method IMO is the one to use if you want to remain in control 100% and very easy to learn. The draw back is it is a lot slower than other methods, you have to decide what is more important to you. Minimap inject + Show Spoiler + Have you tried minimap inject? I have tried it in practice games and it can be super fast if you trained your accuracy, but IMO, very difficult to learn. My suggestion is: try it, you will quickly make up your own mind about this one. Lastly, multiple inject methods: + Show Spoiler + TLO uses different injection methods depending where in the game he is or what is busy happening. Maybe something to think about as well. I occasionally switch methods during a game, it all depends on what is going on in the game. Having more options you have trained yourself with could benefit you. Thus maybe taking your two favorite methods and training both to get the motions / muscle memory down... just an idea. | ||
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Kranbe
2 Posts
p.s. I don't know what the backspace method is, but I highly doubt the word gimmicky can ever be applied to a keyboard layout | ||
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Treznor
Denmark29 Posts
On May 31 2014 15:26 Kranbe wrote: Okay, I feel scared to even post here, be easy. I'm a bronze player and I don't have any hotkey system at all. Seeing as I will be starting from nothing, what system should I try and learn? I hear you guys talking about something called TheCore, like it' the best way to go. Should I search that up and try to learn it? p.s. I don't know what the backspace method is, but I highly doubt the word gimmicky can ever be applied to a keyboard layout Heres a link to the core: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/341878-thecore-advanced-keyboard-layout I started playing sc2 6 months ago. I consider myself lucky that i read about the core from the very beginning. Like anyone in here (im sure) i was eager to advance through the leagues, but also knew the importance of a proper hotkey setup. So i dedicated the first season to learn hotkeys. I installed the core and did a "cold turkey" on the 2-3 grid keys i had been using before that. Theres a few hotkey training arcade maps ingame you can use for some training. And i did use em for 10 min a day before i started playing. In the beginning i could only grasp to make workers, but even that tiny thing would have and huge impact on my play. In the heat of the battle i would still click most of my production (expect making workers) but graduatly i would implement more and more keys. Im playing zerg, so the next 2 keys that stuck, was making a hatch and making the pool, logical, because i was always getting a chance to make those 2 buildings no matter how short the game was, hence getting more training in doing so. After a month or so, i knew all hotkeys, i would still click if getting stressed, but slowly i started to utilize all hotkeys. Now 6 months later, hotkeys are second nature to me. My apm naturaly got from 40 to 85 with my personal record beeing 102 in a 40 min game. And please bear in mind that im 40 years old and have a HUGE hand. (Pinky on "1" i can use thumb to press backspace). If i can manage that, im pretty sure you can also. So my advice to a fellow beginner is, use the core, get ready to be frustrated over alot of lost games. But be ready to harvest the fruits of hard labor in a few months. Peace /Trez P.S. Combing the core with the staircase is also absolutely adviced. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/374400-thestaircase-an-alternative-improvement-method | ||
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